Thinking about joining the "996 crew" – questions…
Discussion
Hi guys,
A bit of background and some questions to follow:
I am a “bad boy”, you know one of those that drives the noisy cars made of plastic, unreliable with the chassis that rusts and cost about 2 pence, but make the an incredible noise an outruns pretty much all the German and Italian stuff made in the same period… you know those cars assembled by and by drunken guys in Blackpool…
Yep, “drive a TVR”.
I have had a TVR Chimaera 500 for the last 5 years, she’s an amazing unmolested low mileage (less than 30k) beast, with everything working, with the 5L V8 that pushes out above 300 breaks (she produced 300 break on a dyno before I did a few mods on the induction and ripped of the 3 catalytic converters… on the engine and she’s about 1030 kg…). I am putting “drive” in “”, as she hardly gets driven! We are in London, and it’s our second car and has a 2 & 1/2 years old. So before the arrival of our son she was getting used for about 3,000 – 5,000 miles year for drives out of London for days out / weekend / holidays, but now she does about 2,000 miles a year…
A few months after our son was born I was getting annoyed by the fact that the TVR could not be used when going out with the mrs and our son (it only has 2 seats) and I went to a reputable Porsche garage to have a look at a 964 and I decided against it as it would have mean selling the TVR, and I know that I would have regretted it (there are less and less good quality 500 Chimaeras out there, they only made 600… Nothing really comes as close performance wise and sensation wise as my TVR for the money it costs to buy / run… etc…), so I decided against selling try TVR and buying the Porsche and though… I’ll keep the TVR and buy a Porsche when finances allow me to have the TVR and the Porsche.
The TVR is kept in a garage, and basically gets used when I go to breakfast meeting at Goodwood, the bi annual trip to Le Mans Classic and a few car events in the UK and a few drives with the boys…
I like to keep the TVR as it’s a classic British roadster, it sounds amazing (decated exhaust), it has visceral acceleration, I can take the roof of and they are going up in value, so basically the increase in value pretty much covers the cost of running it (Twisted men maths always add up…). I like the fact that it is a slightly “leftfield” car and you really get involved when driving it (especially in the wet).
So on to the Porsche:
I am originally from France, Strasbourg at the German border and my dad always had interesting cars (not because he is loaded, but because he is an amazing mechanic (allowing him to buy one that was bashes, do it up and maintain it himself) had lost of space: grew up on a non-working farm and because many of his friends were into cars…). He had a few 911s in the late 70s early 80, had access to a friend 930 that was stored in a barn at ours and my dad was allowed to drive), he had a couple of 944s, also had access to a 928… Dad still has an amazing 993 (wide, original factory sports chassis: it sits so low you cannot put a finger between the rear wheel and the wheel arches …)
So I will be looking a 996, which is controversial as it is the 911 I like the least, Ideally I would like a 993 (the best of the classic 911s in my eyes) or a 964, but they are now too expensive for me (as I am keeping the TVR, so I will not have the budget) and it will more than likely be kept in eth street, so I need one that is less likely to rush… the 996 is also an excellent car, it is “modern” and has airbags, ABS, traction control, etc… which makes it good to run around at weekend with the family… and the mrs can drive it (she did drive the TVR from time to times before becoming a mum…).
Ideally I would like a manual car. Our family car, a Citroen is automatic and for London I would not want anything else, unless it’s a sports car…
Questions:
1) How much do you think I should budget for descent 996 with the 3.6 engine? When I mean descent I mean that looks OK, has a good service history: Porsche dealer or reputed specialist without stratospheric miles. I am happy to buy form a privateer…
2) How much should I budget for the same as above but for the “wide bodied car”.
3) How much should I budget for servicing on a yearly basis, based on a “minor service” (oil / filter / brake pads, etc…) done by a reputed specialist – I would be doing 3,000 – 4,000 miles a year.
4) How much should I budget for servicing for “big service” every 2 – 3 years?
5) How much is tax?
6) How much is a set of 4 descent tyres.
7) I know that some of the 996 can have some pretty nasty engine issues, but what would you consider “acceptable” mileage for a 996 that has been looked after… what I mean is when would you start to have to spend big money on a rebuild: 150K miles?
8) In “real world” is there a lot of difference performance wise between the 3.4 and the 3.6L engine?
Hooking up:
I am based in North London: Kensal green / Willesden (NW10) and if someone here had a 996 and fancy hooking up to have a drive in a 996 and the TVR: car take both cars to somewhere out of London and try them both and have a dink / lunch at some point in the future, I would be up for it.
I am in a group of a few nice “car lads” a couple of TVRs, a 912, a 911 GT3RS, a 1969 911, etc… and we do “car related things” from time to time…
Selling:
If you are thinking of selling in the middle of next year and have something in the £12k to £15 mark that is OK, get in touch…
All the best and merry Xmas,
Frenchie
A bit of background and some questions to follow:
I am a “bad boy”, you know one of those that drives the noisy cars made of plastic, unreliable with the chassis that rusts and cost about 2 pence, but make the an incredible noise an outruns pretty much all the German and Italian stuff made in the same period… you know those cars assembled by and by drunken guys in Blackpool…
Yep, “drive a TVR”.
I have had a TVR Chimaera 500 for the last 5 years, she’s an amazing unmolested low mileage (less than 30k) beast, with everything working, with the 5L V8 that pushes out above 300 breaks (she produced 300 break on a dyno before I did a few mods on the induction and ripped of the 3 catalytic converters… on the engine and she’s about 1030 kg…). I am putting “drive” in “”, as she hardly gets driven! We are in London, and it’s our second car and has a 2 & 1/2 years old. So before the arrival of our son she was getting used for about 3,000 – 5,000 miles year for drives out of London for days out / weekend / holidays, but now she does about 2,000 miles a year…
A few months after our son was born I was getting annoyed by the fact that the TVR could not be used when going out with the mrs and our son (it only has 2 seats) and I went to a reputable Porsche garage to have a look at a 964 and I decided against it as it would have mean selling the TVR, and I know that I would have regretted it (there are less and less good quality 500 Chimaeras out there, they only made 600… Nothing really comes as close performance wise and sensation wise as my TVR for the money it costs to buy / run… etc…), so I decided against selling try TVR and buying the Porsche and though… I’ll keep the TVR and buy a Porsche when finances allow me to have the TVR and the Porsche.
The TVR is kept in a garage, and basically gets used when I go to breakfast meeting at Goodwood, the bi annual trip to Le Mans Classic and a few car events in the UK and a few drives with the boys…
I like to keep the TVR as it’s a classic British roadster, it sounds amazing (decated exhaust), it has visceral acceleration, I can take the roof of and they are going up in value, so basically the increase in value pretty much covers the cost of running it (Twisted men maths always add up…). I like the fact that it is a slightly “leftfield” car and you really get involved when driving it (especially in the wet).
So on to the Porsche:
I am originally from France, Strasbourg at the German border and my dad always had interesting cars (not because he is loaded, but because he is an amazing mechanic (allowing him to buy one that was bashes, do it up and maintain it himself) had lost of space: grew up on a non-working farm and because many of his friends were into cars…). He had a few 911s in the late 70s early 80, had access to a friend 930 that was stored in a barn at ours and my dad was allowed to drive), he had a couple of 944s, also had access to a 928… Dad still has an amazing 993 (wide, original factory sports chassis: it sits so low you cannot put a finger between the rear wheel and the wheel arches …)
So I will be looking a 996, which is controversial as it is the 911 I like the least, Ideally I would like a 993 (the best of the classic 911s in my eyes) or a 964, but they are now too expensive for me (as I am keeping the TVR, so I will not have the budget) and it will more than likely be kept in eth street, so I need one that is less likely to rush… the 996 is also an excellent car, it is “modern” and has airbags, ABS, traction control, etc… which makes it good to run around at weekend with the family… and the mrs can drive it (she did drive the TVR from time to times before becoming a mum…).
Ideally I would like a manual car. Our family car, a Citroen is automatic and for London I would not want anything else, unless it’s a sports car…
Questions:
1) How much do you think I should budget for descent 996 with the 3.6 engine? When I mean descent I mean that looks OK, has a good service history: Porsche dealer or reputed specialist without stratospheric miles. I am happy to buy form a privateer…
2) How much should I budget for the same as above but for the “wide bodied car”.
3) How much should I budget for servicing on a yearly basis, based on a “minor service” (oil / filter / brake pads, etc…) done by a reputed specialist – I would be doing 3,000 – 4,000 miles a year.
4) How much should I budget for servicing for “big service” every 2 – 3 years?
5) How much is tax?
6) How much is a set of 4 descent tyres.
7) I know that some of the 996 can have some pretty nasty engine issues, but what would you consider “acceptable” mileage for a 996 that has been looked after… what I mean is when would you start to have to spend big money on a rebuild: 150K miles?
8) In “real world” is there a lot of difference performance wise between the 3.4 and the 3.6L engine?
Hooking up:
I am based in North London: Kensal green / Willesden (NW10) and if someone here had a 996 and fancy hooking up to have a drive in a 996 and the TVR: car take both cars to somewhere out of London and try them both and have a dink / lunch at some point in the future, I would be up for it.
I am in a group of a few nice “car lads” a couple of TVRs, a 912, a 911 GT3RS, a 1969 911, etc… and we do “car related things” from time to time…
Selling:
If you are thinking of selling in the middle of next year and have something in the £12k to £15 mark that is OK, get in touch…
All the best and merry Xmas,
Frenchie
Pending 996 new owner myself. I can't answer all your questions but some input from my research over the last few months.
1) How much do you think I should budget for descent 996 with the 3.6 engine?
£15k min for a C2 manual coupe
2) How much should I budget for the same as above but for the “wide bodied car”
= C4S. Low £20k's for a decent one and they are rising fast it seems. Many asking £25k, £27k, more - for manual coupes.
3) How much should I budget for servicing on a yearly basis, based on a “minor service” (oil / filter / brake pads, etc…) done by a reputed specialist – I would be doing 3,000 – 4,000 miles a year.
I think absolute min for service £500 and I'm personally budgeting £1500-2000 per year running costs to keep it tidy.
4) How much should I budget for servicing for “big service” every 2 – 3 years?
Not sure but certainly 4 figures. If these figures or the above are concerning you is it the right buy...?
5) How much is tax?
Depends on year, either £245 I think or more likely £500 ish if you get a post march 2001 car.
6) How much is a set of 4 descent tyres.
£800-1000 or so depending on wheel size to some extent.
7) I know that some of the 996 can have some pretty nasty engine issues, but what would you consider “acceptable” mileage for a 996 that has been looked after… what I mean is when would you start to have to spend big money on a rebuild: 150K miles?
Unless you want to pay a massive premium, expect 60-80k miles, they seem to average around 5000 per year, 12-15 years old.
8) In “real world” is there a lot of difference performance wise between the 3.4 and the 3.6L engine?
Pass
HTH and be corrected by others more knowledgeable than me!
cheers
1) How much do you think I should budget for descent 996 with the 3.6 engine?
£15k min for a C2 manual coupe
2) How much should I budget for the same as above but for the “wide bodied car”
= C4S. Low £20k's for a decent one and they are rising fast it seems. Many asking £25k, £27k, more - for manual coupes.
3) How much should I budget for servicing on a yearly basis, based on a “minor service” (oil / filter / brake pads, etc…) done by a reputed specialist – I would be doing 3,000 – 4,000 miles a year.
I think absolute min for service £500 and I'm personally budgeting £1500-2000 per year running costs to keep it tidy.
4) How much should I budget for servicing for “big service” every 2 – 3 years?
Not sure but certainly 4 figures. If these figures or the above are concerning you is it the right buy...?
5) How much is tax?
Depends on year, either £245 I think or more likely £500 ish if you get a post march 2001 car.
6) How much is a set of 4 descent tyres.
£800-1000 or so depending on wheel size to some extent.
7) I know that some of the 996 can have some pretty nasty engine issues, but what would you consider “acceptable” mileage for a 996 that has been looked after… what I mean is when would you start to have to spend big money on a rebuild: 150K miles?
Unless you want to pay a massive premium, expect 60-80k miles, they seem to average around 5000 per year, 12-15 years old.
8) In “real world” is there a lot of difference performance wise between the 3.4 and the 3.6L engine?
Pass
HTH and be corrected by others more knowledgeable than me!
cheers
You may also wish to google:
Porsche IMS bearing
996 bore scoring
Hartech engine rebuild
I haven't let any of these put me off Porsche ownership as failure rates are relatively low. Always buy on condition rather than specific mileage. Personally, I'd budget for an IMS bearing upgrade immediately after purchase - other people don't bother as they think the chance of failure is low, but this is something I'd always do. Have a new clutch whilst the engine is out too. I'd also recommend fitting a lower temperature thermostat immediately too, as it seems to be help prevent bore scoring - worth mentioning that bore scoring is less (or zero) problematic in the 3.4 cars than the 3.6s.
Porsche IMS bearing
996 bore scoring
Hartech engine rebuild
I haven't let any of these put me off Porsche ownership as failure rates are relatively low. Always buy on condition rather than specific mileage. Personally, I'd budget for an IMS bearing upgrade immediately after purchase - other people don't bother as they think the chance of failure is low, but this is something I'd always do. Have a new clutch whilst the engine is out too. I'd also recommend fitting a lower temperature thermostat immediately too, as it seems to be help prevent bore scoring - worth mentioning that bore scoring is less (or zero) problematic in the 3.4 cars than the 3.6s.
eastsider said:
3) How much should I budget for servicing on a yearly basis, based on a “minor service” (oil / filter / brake pads, etc…) done by a reputed specialist – I would be doing 3,000 – 4,000 miles a year.
I think absolute min for service £500 and I'm personally budgeting £1500-2000 per year running costs to keep it tidy.
http://porscheownerservices.co.uk/I think absolute min for service £500 and I'm personally budgeting £1500-2000 per year running costs to keep it tidy.
Have a look at the OPC fixed rates to get an idea, depending on where you live an indy won't be much cheaper (or maybe even more expensive!)
For 3-4k miles a year I think £1000 is a sensible budget unless you're gonna start doing things like suspension refreshes.
This year I've spent <£1k on a major service including plugs, installing a low temp thermostat, 6 coil packs and oil pressure sender. Year before that was only £200 for a minor.
eastsider said:
5) How much is tax?
Depends on year, either £245 I think or more likely £500 ish if you get a post march 2001 car.
£500 is only for post 2006 cars, which none of the 996's are. So it's £290 max.Depends on year, either £245 I think or more likely £500 ish if you get a post march 2001 car.
Edited by Shaoxter on Wednesday 16th December 12:19
eastsider said:
Pending 996 new owner myself. I can't answer all your questions but some input from my research over the last few months.
1) How much do you think I should budget for descent 996 with the 3.6 engine?
£15k min for a C2 manual coupe
2) How much should I budget for the same as above but for the “wide bodied car”
= C4S. Low £20k's for a decent one and they are rising fast it seems. Many asking £25k, £27k, more - for manual coupes.
3) How much should I budget for servicing on a yearly basis, based on a “minor service” (oil / filter / brake pads, etc…) done by a reputed specialist – I would be doing 3,000 – 4,000 miles a year.
I think absolute min for service £500 and I'm personally budgeting £1500-2000 per year running costs to keep it tidy.
4) How much should I budget for servicing for “big service” every 2 – 3 years?
Not sure but certainly 4 figures. If these figures or the above are concerning you is it the right buy...?
5) How much is tax?
Depends on year, either £245 I think or more likely £500 ish if you get a post march 2001 car.
6) How much is a set of 4 descent tyres.
£800-1000 or so depending on wheel size to some extent.
7) I know that some of the 996 can have some pretty nasty engine issues, but what would you consider “acceptable” mileage for a 996 that has been looked after… what I mean is when would you start to have to spend big money on a rebuild: 150K miles?
Unless you want to pay a massive premium, expect 60-80k miles, they seem to average around 5000 per year, 12-15 years old.
8) In “real world” is there a lot of difference performance wise between the 3.4 and the 3.6L engine?
Pass
HTH and be corrected by others more knowledgeable than me!
cheers
As a yet to be owner that is an excellent reply. You've done a good job with your research. 1) How much do you think I should budget for descent 996 with the 3.6 engine?
£15k min for a C2 manual coupe
2) How much should I budget for the same as above but for the “wide bodied car”
= C4S. Low £20k's for a decent one and they are rising fast it seems. Many asking £25k, £27k, more - for manual coupes.
3) How much should I budget for servicing on a yearly basis, based on a “minor service” (oil / filter / brake pads, etc…) done by a reputed specialist – I would be doing 3,000 – 4,000 miles a year.
I think absolute min for service £500 and I'm personally budgeting £1500-2000 per year running costs to keep it tidy.
4) How much should I budget for servicing for “big service” every 2 – 3 years?
Not sure but certainly 4 figures. If these figures or the above are concerning you is it the right buy...?
5) How much is tax?
Depends on year, either £245 I think or more likely £500 ish if you get a post march 2001 car.
6) How much is a set of 4 descent tyres.
£800-1000 or so depending on wheel size to some extent.
7) I know that some of the 996 can have some pretty nasty engine issues, but what would you consider “acceptable” mileage for a 996 that has been looked after… what I mean is when would you start to have to spend big money on a rebuild: 150K miles?
Unless you want to pay a massive premium, expect 60-80k miles, they seem to average around 5000 per year, 12-15 years old.
8) In “real world” is there a lot of difference performance wise between the 3.4 and the 3.6L engine?
Pass
HTH and be corrected by others more knowledgeable than me!
cheers
To fill in number 8 for you. Very little real world performance difference. Bigger difference in looks because of the headlights (I prefer the looks of the older 3.4 but that's personal taste). Also there are subtle differences inside and the feel of the throttle (earliest ones are cable and later ones fly by wire).
boxsey said:
Also there are subtle differences inside
No cup holders on a 996.1, which I remembered this morning when I popped into the local shop on the way to the office and they offered me a free cup of coffee. Luckily you can get up to a decent pace in 2nd, so I was able to drive the short distance into work without too much gear changing. No glove box either.Probably not factors you should base a car purchase on, however.
Trevor,
I am checking the costs if taxing, servicing, etc… as I need to “budget” for this car, as I guess many of us do not have unlimited founds and next year we are addying a loft to the house, get a new bathroom and new windows and I guess at some point need to turn my fiancée into my wife…
We are also running a family car, a Vespa, the TVR and have a Nissan Figaro (my mrs old toy) sitting on my parents in law’s drive (it shoud get sold in the spring)…
So having and extra car: the Porsche is something I would have to sell to my mrs …
Frenchie
I am checking the costs if taxing, servicing, etc… as I need to “budget” for this car, as I guess many of us do not have unlimited founds and next year we are addying a loft to the house, get a new bathroom and new windows and I guess at some point need to turn my fiancée into my wife…
We are also running a family car, a Vespa, the TVR and have a Nissan Figaro (my mrs old toy) sitting on my parents in law’s drive (it shoud get sold in the spring)…
So having and extra car: the Porsche is something I would have to sell to my mrs …
Frenchie
There is an extremely illuminating thread on another 911 website about IMS failures; seems there are very easy preventatives available:
http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=108257&si...
Change the oil often and remove the dust seals and all should be well.
The 3.6 is noticeably torquier than the 3.4, apparently. It never ceases to amaze me how muscular it feels. Both love to rev, too.
Hope you read Cmoose's great write-up here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=154...
Get them while they're (not) hot!!
http://www.911uk.com/viewtopic.php?t=108257&si...
Change the oil often and remove the dust seals and all should be well.
The 3.6 is noticeably torquier than the 3.4, apparently. It never ceases to amaze me how muscular it feels. Both love to rev, too.
Hope you read Cmoose's great write-up here:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=154...
Get them while they're (not) hot!!
Edited by EGTE on Wednesday 16th December 14:47
Oh and buy a decent jack, some axle stands, some good tools and this book:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/ShopCart/BOOK/...
Will save you a ton of cash. They're not that hard to work on (I have no formal mechanical training whatsoever) and it's very satisfying.
http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/ShopCart/BOOK/...
Will save you a ton of cash. They're not that hard to work on (I have no formal mechanical training whatsoever) and it's very satisfying.
Shaoxter said:
£500 is only for post 2006 cars, which none of the 996's are. So it's £290 max.
Any 911 registered after 1 March 2001 is likely to be band M which this table:Edited by Shaoxter on Wednesday 16th December 12:19
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Implies will be £505 as a single 12 month payment?
eastsider said:
Shaoxter said:
£500 is only for post 2006 cars, which none of the 996's are. So it's £290 max.
Any 911 registered after 1 March 2001 is likely to be band M which this table:Edited by Shaoxter on Wednesday 16th December 12:19
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Implies will be £505 as a single 12 month payment?
eastsider said:
Shaoxter said:
£500 is only for post 2006 cars, which none of the 996's are. So it's £290 max.
Any 911 registered after 1 March 2001 is likely to be band M which this table:Edited by Shaoxter on Wednesday 16th December 12:19
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploa...
Implies will be £505 as a single 12 month payment?
- Band K includes cars that have a CO2 emission figure over 225g/km but were registered before 23 March 2006.
There's some good information contained in this thread for the new/aspiring 996 owner.
I've had my car since July, and have now covered around 7500 miles in it. I do the service items myself, and have found the car nice to work on. I've replaced a set of disks and pads, which were virtually free at only £110 all in. The rest has just been standard service items. I've found all the parts required to be surprisingly affordable and easy to get hold of.
Regarding tyres - I paid £520 for a full set of Michelin Pilot Sport 3s. (I think the rear wheels are slightly wider on the later cars though).
Fuel economy is averaging out at around 27mpg. I've tried it on everything from Shell 99 RON to supermarket special 95 RON and honestly can't tell any difference between them in either performance or economy.
Regarding cup holders (as mentioned above) it's not correct that the early 996 models didn't come with them. Mine's a 1998 3.4 and has them fitted.
It's the best car I've ever owned, and I look forward to every drive in the car. Mine's a Tiptronic, which I know is often frowned upon, yet with the flappy paddle conversion it really transforms the drive of the car.
I drive 20k miles a year, and once I've got a full years worth of mileage under my belt, I'll report back with my experience of the costs involved to run one of these.
I've had my car since July, and have now covered around 7500 miles in it. I do the service items myself, and have found the car nice to work on. I've replaced a set of disks and pads, which were virtually free at only £110 all in. The rest has just been standard service items. I've found all the parts required to be surprisingly affordable and easy to get hold of.
Regarding tyres - I paid £520 for a full set of Michelin Pilot Sport 3s. (I think the rear wheels are slightly wider on the later cars though).
Fuel economy is averaging out at around 27mpg. I've tried it on everything from Shell 99 RON to supermarket special 95 RON and honestly can't tell any difference between them in either performance or economy.
Regarding cup holders (as mentioned above) it's not correct that the early 996 models didn't come with them. Mine's a 1998 3.4 and has them fitted.
It's the best car I've ever owned, and I look forward to every drive in the car. Mine's a Tiptronic, which I know is often frowned upon, yet with the flappy paddle conversion it really transforms the drive of the car.
I drive 20k miles a year, and once I've got a full years worth of mileage under my belt, I'll report back with my experience of the costs involved to run one of these.
frenchie TVR said:
Trevor,
I am checking the costs if taxing, servicing, etc… as I need to “budget” for this car, as I guess many of us do not have unlimited founds and next year we are addying a loft to the house, get a new bathroom and new windows and I guess at some point need to turn my fiancée into my wife…
We are also running a family car, a Vespa, the TVR and have a Nissan Figaro (my mrs old toy) sitting on my parents in law’s drive (it shoud get sold in the spring)…
So having and extra car: the Porsche is something I would have to sell to my mrs …
Frenchie
I wasn't aware you were going to add to your existing stable, so understand your need to cost it out. That, together with house renovations and getting married, and the man maths become even more important. I am checking the costs if taxing, servicing, etc… as I need to “budget” for this car, as I guess many of us do not have unlimited founds and next year we are addying a loft to the house, get a new bathroom and new windows and I guess at some point need to turn my fiancée into my wife…
We are also running a family car, a Vespa, the TVR and have a Nissan Figaro (my mrs old toy) sitting on my parents in law’s drive (it shoud get sold in the spring)…
So having and extra car: the Porsche is something I would have to sell to my mrs …
Frenchie
I would say average of 1200 per year, purely based on 1750 - 2000 a year for a turbo. On average - some years hurt with tyres, plugs, coil packs, clutch and some are just a small service. I would say you have a very understanding missus if you can get this one passed- or she is very happy to keep you in the garage.
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