IVA Emissions Engine dating and "in service emissions book"
Discussion
In the early design stages of designing a one off kit car and I am going through the IVA manual step by step with my "solutions" for each criteria so I can design it to pass IVA from the early stages.
Coming to emissions, ideally I'd like a modern all alloy engine AND non-Cat emissions which is a have your cake and eat it situation. Luckily there are quite a few engines that cross over various emissions dates and could meet that criteria.
However, reading through the IVA manual emissions section and also IVA guides in "popular" kit car magazines, I have come across a bit of an area that needs clarification.
In Broad terns, to get a non-cat test you need an engine that predates 1 Aug 92.
also exceptions exist for engines upto 31st july 1995 when, and i quute "Can you
find an exact match in the analyser database or the In-Service Emissions Book?" If no then emissions are "Carry out a non CAT test CO <= 3.5% HC <= 1200ppm"
However what the manual doesn't state anywhere is to which vehicle does an "exact match in the analyser database or the In-Service Emissions Book" apply to? Is it the donor vehicle or the completed kit car as presented?
Clearly no low volume kit car is likely to be in the database. If they mean the donor vehicle, then most mass produced donors would likely be in the book and thus the post 1992 exemption would be of little use to us.
Anybody know the answer on this one?
Coming to emissions, ideally I'd like a modern all alloy engine AND non-Cat emissions which is a have your cake and eat it situation. Luckily there are quite a few engines that cross over various emissions dates and could meet that criteria.
However, reading through the IVA manual emissions section and also IVA guides in "popular" kit car magazines, I have come across a bit of an area that needs clarification.
In Broad terns, to get a non-cat test you need an engine that predates 1 Aug 92.
also exceptions exist for engines upto 31st july 1995 when, and i quute "Can you
find an exact match in the analyser database or the In-Service Emissions Book?" If no then emissions are "Carry out a non CAT test CO <= 3.5% HC <= 1200ppm"
However what the manual doesn't state anywhere is to which vehicle does an "exact match in the analyser database or the In-Service Emissions Book" apply to? Is it the donor vehicle or the completed kit car as presented?
Clearly no low volume kit car is likely to be in the database. If they mean the donor vehicle, then most mass produced donors would likely be in the book and thus the post 1992 exemption would be of little use to us.
Anybody know the answer on this one?
Psycho Warren said:
In the early design stages of designing a one off kit car and I am going through the IVA manual step by step with my "solutions" for each criteria so I can design it to pass IVA from the early stages.
Coming to emissions, ideally I'd like a modern all alloy engine AND non-Cat emissions which is a have your cake and eat it situation. Luckily there are quite a few engines that cross over various emissions dates and could meet that criteria.
However, reading through the IVA manual emissions section and also IVA guides in "popular" kit car magazines, I have come across a bit of an area that needs clarification.
In Broad terns, to get a non-cat test you need an engine that predates 1 Aug 92.
also exceptions exist for engines upto 31st july 1995 when, and i quute "Can you
find an exact match in the analyser database or the In-Service Emissions Book?" If no then emissions are "Carry out a non CAT test CO <= 3.5% HC <= 1200ppm"
However what the manual doesn't state anywhere is to which vehicle does an "exact match in the analyser database or the In-Service Emissions Book" apply to? Is it the donor vehicle or the completed kit car as presented?
Clearly no low volume kit car is likely to be in the database. If they mean the donor vehicle, then most mass produced donors would likely be in the book and thus the post 1992 exemption would be of little use to us.
Anybody know the answer on this one?
At my IVA, Dax Rush with the engine from a 1994 Alfa Romeo, the inspectors said it was an exact match of the vehicle presented. Mine being a kit car, there was no exact match, so it fell back to the 3.5% CO test.Coming to emissions, ideally I'd like a modern all alloy engine AND non-Cat emissions which is a have your cake and eat it situation. Luckily there are quite a few engines that cross over various emissions dates and could meet that criteria.
However, reading through the IVA manual emissions section and also IVA guides in "popular" kit car magazines, I have come across a bit of an area that needs clarification.
In Broad terns, to get a non-cat test you need an engine that predates 1 Aug 92.
also exceptions exist for engines upto 31st july 1995 when, and i quute "Can you
find an exact match in the analyser database or the In-Service Emissions Book?" If no then emissions are "Carry out a non CAT test CO <= 3.5% HC <= 1200ppm"
However what the manual doesn't state anywhere is to which vehicle does an "exact match in the analyser database or the In-Service Emissions Book" apply to? Is it the donor vehicle or the completed kit car as presented?
Clearly no low volume kit car is likely to be in the database. If they mean the donor vehicle, then most mass produced donors would likely be in the book and thus the post 1992 exemption would be of little use to us.
Anybody know the answer on this one?
It's very unclear but that's what happened with me.
The 'Database' or 'Book' only applies to type approved vehicles. The emissions testing applied to the whole vehicle so is no longer relevant to the engine alone.
You will, however, have to prove the age of the engine by one of the following ways.
The V5c for the donor vehicle provided the engine has not been changed. They had a run of (for example) donor Cortinas that had recently and conveniently had the engine changed to a Chevy V8.
A letter from the engine manufacturer stating the age of the engine.
A publication such as 'How to tune your Chevy' which contains lists of engine and casting numbers.
You are less likely to have any success with a printout from the internet but may convince the tester to look at the appropriate link.
Obviously all of this depends on the engine number being visible and not tampered with. Some aftermarket exhaust flanges cover the engine number on old crossflow engines. Also some crate engines don't have a number at all. If an engine has been rebuilt the block may have been machined and in doing so removed the number.
Steve
You will, however, have to prove the age of the engine by one of the following ways.
The V5c for the donor vehicle provided the engine has not been changed. They had a run of (for example) donor Cortinas that had recently and conveniently had the engine changed to a Chevy V8.
A letter from the engine manufacturer stating the age of the engine.
A publication such as 'How to tune your Chevy' which contains lists of engine and casting numbers.
You are less likely to have any success with a printout from the internet but may convince the tester to look at the appropriate link.
Obviously all of this depends on the engine number being visible and not tampered with. Some aftermarket exhaust flanges cover the engine number on old crossflow engines. Also some crate engines don't have a number at all. If an engine has been rebuilt the block may have been machined and in doing so removed the number.
Steve
Exact match of the vehicle presented, ie the kit car would suit me fine.
Not worried about proving engine age as its a ford engine and as such the engine number is easily dateable due to the code on it. Also the engine number should match the last numbers on the VIN if original. Plenty of date tables for the ford stuff online, in burtons catalogue etc.
Not worried about proving engine age as its a ford engine and as such the engine number is easily dateable due to the code on it. Also the engine number should match the last numbers on the VIN if original. Plenty of date tables for the ford stuff online, in burtons catalogue etc.
Psycho Warren said:
Not worried about proving engine age as its a ford engine and as such the engine number is easily dateable due to the code on it. Also the engine number should match the last numbers on the VIN if original. Plenty of date tables for the ford stuff online, in burtons catalogue etc.
I'm know you are correct about the engine being dateable from the above, but I think DVLA will require a letter from Ford giving the date (or range) of when it was manufactured.Fastpedeller said:
Psycho Warren said:
Not worried about proving engine age as its a ford engine and as such the engine number is easily dateable due to the code on it. Also the engine number should match the last numbers on the VIN if original. Plenty of date tables for the ford stuff online, in burtons catalogue etc.
I'm know you are correct about the engine being dateable from the above, but I think DVLA will require a letter from Ford giving the date (or range) of when it was manufactured.After IVA the car will need to be registered which is where DVLA come in and in that case they will not be interested in the age of the engine but will want proof of where you bought it so make sure you have receipts.
Steve
Will manufacturers even write such letters? cant see them being interested in helping out kit car users of thier engines, unless its an off the shelf crate engine bought from them direct.
I thought a letter from a suitable owners club etc was acceptable or has all that been changed now??
I know they are trying to stop the old "fit a v8 to a scrapper" 6 months before its a donor car trick, but surely with matching engine number and VIN and a DVLA printout showing no engine swap, they cant have any reasonable reason to doubt the engine is the original engine fitted to the donor?
I thought a letter from a suitable owners club etc was acceptable or has all that been changed now??
I know they are trying to stop the old "fit a v8 to a scrapper" 6 months before its a donor car trick, but surely with matching engine number and VIN and a DVLA printout showing no engine swap, they cant have any reasonable reason to doubt the engine is the original engine fitted to the donor?
Psycho Warren said:
Will manufacturers even write such letters? cant see them being interested in helping out kit car users of thier engines, unless its an off the shelf crate engine bought from them direct.
I thought a letter from a suitable owners club etc was acceptable or has all that been changed now??
I know they are trying to stop the old "fit a v8 to a scrapper" 6 months before its a donor car trick, but surely with matching engine number and VIN and a DVLA printout showing no engine swap, they cant have any reasonable reason to doubt the engine is the original engine fitted to the donor?
Depends I guess. An alfa dealer sent me a printout confirming the age of mine, free of charge no less, I had bought most of the engine reconditioning parts from them though and I think the guy on the phone was quite interested.I thought a letter from a suitable owners club etc was acceptable or has all that been changed now??
I know they are trying to stop the old "fit a v8 to a scrapper" 6 months before its a donor car trick, but surely with matching engine number and VIN and a DVLA printout showing no engine swap, they cant have any reasonable reason to doubt the engine is the original engine fitted to the donor?
As to what the tester thinks is acceptable, that's up to him ultimately. But if you've got the number, and something official matching it to the VIN, and showing it's not been changed, I would have thought that'd be fine. The tester IME was out to help get the car through, not catch you on some administrative technicality. YMMV of course...
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