Audi A1-Timing Chain failure -need your advices
Discussion
is there a well known Timing Chain failure? how do you suggest of this £4000 repairing cost?
this Audi A1 4 years old (2011) at mileage of 40000 ( i only drove 11000 in my hand for the 24 months), full service once a year, has a gear box jerking problem ( shaking) ( gear 3 and up) 20 days ago and i drove to a local garage, it past MOT and get a full service done, but i stil feel the problem at the gear and asked the garage to find out, the next morning , the car stopped start and my garage advice me send it to a Audi centre , as they suspected it is a well know Timing Chain failure.
The Audi centre.Audi Approved by Sydenham
140 Mayow Road SE26 4HZ
Check it and told me: Mr Liu,
1. We need to carry out compression test to check the timing, one this has been checked the technician will report back to let us know what the issue is £318 for two hours labour.
2. Front brake pads and discs are 90% worn £299
3. Rear brake pads and discs are 90% worn £235
4. Brake fluid service due £59
5. Rear wiper blade is required £10.15
6. o/s/f washer jet blocked £7.46
I told them to sort the Timing Chain problem only -as it has just passed a MOT and full service-
and then they said ( after £318 spent )
Compression test was carried out on the vehicle (each cylinder individually) which states there is no compression. The timing has been checked and is a long way out. The cylinder head requires stripping to establish the extend of the damage, this is 4 hours labour to remove the chains, strip the cylinder head to inspect and report back to you.
"We suspect all the valves are bent but we are unable to confirm the condition of the valves, head or pistons without removal.
4 hours labour will be £636.00
and today they said to me
Following the removal of the cylinder head, it is very evident all the pistons have impacted the valves. Due to the extent of the damage and impact, the repair would consist of a replacement cylinder head complete with new valves.
As part of this repair, the timing chains and guides will be replaced with new.
Once the damaged items have been replaced, we will attempt to run the vehicle. Proving the vehicle has not arrived with any other issues, this will conclude the repairs.
Repair costs from here £2891
Total agreed so far £954
Total repair costs £3845
and the Audi Customer centre said to me they never ever heard it is a well know timing chain problem.
please give advice - many thanks
this Audi A1 4 years old (2011) at mileage of 40000 ( i only drove 11000 in my hand for the 24 months), full service once a year, has a gear box jerking problem ( shaking) ( gear 3 and up) 20 days ago and i drove to a local garage, it past MOT and get a full service done, but i stil feel the problem at the gear and asked the garage to find out, the next morning , the car stopped start and my garage advice me send it to a Audi centre , as they suspected it is a well know Timing Chain failure.
The Audi centre.Audi Approved by Sydenham
140 Mayow Road SE26 4HZ
Check it and told me: Mr Liu,
1. We need to carry out compression test to check the timing, one this has been checked the technician will report back to let us know what the issue is £318 for two hours labour.
2. Front brake pads and discs are 90% worn £299
3. Rear brake pads and discs are 90% worn £235
4. Brake fluid service due £59
5. Rear wiper blade is required £10.15
6. o/s/f washer jet blocked £7.46
I told them to sort the Timing Chain problem only -as it has just passed a MOT and full service-
and then they said ( after £318 spent )
Compression test was carried out on the vehicle (each cylinder individually) which states there is no compression. The timing has been checked and is a long way out. The cylinder head requires stripping to establish the extend of the damage, this is 4 hours labour to remove the chains, strip the cylinder head to inspect and report back to you.
"We suspect all the valves are bent but we are unable to confirm the condition of the valves, head or pistons without removal.
4 hours labour will be £636.00
and today they said to me
Following the removal of the cylinder head, it is very evident all the pistons have impacted the valves. Due to the extent of the damage and impact, the repair would consist of a replacement cylinder head complete with new valves.
As part of this repair, the timing chains and guides will be replaced with new.
Once the damaged items have been replaced, we will attempt to run the vehicle. Proving the vehicle has not arrived with any other issues, this will conclude the repairs.
Repair costs from here £2891
Total agreed so far £954
Total repair costs £3845
and the Audi Customer centre said to me they never ever heard it is a well know timing chain problem.
please give advice - many thanks
All I can add is I'm glad I have a much cheaper car to run in the RS6 
Quite frankly £300+ for a compression and timing check is taking the piss. £300 for front discs and pads for a shopping hatch in unbelievable.
You're well and truly caught up in the horror of the dealers hands now and at £150+ an hour labour it's not hard to see how the costs escalate fast. If it is out of warranty and they are not willing to make any good will contributions I'd be thinking about putting all the bits in the back of the car and get it taken away to a reputable garage.
The car is an A1, so nothing fancy and a good mechanic will have it sorted for a lot lot less.
Edit- maybe I'm old school but how did they do a timing check on an engine with no compression on all cylinders??
Quite frankly £300+ for a compression and timing check is taking the piss. £300 for front discs and pads for a shopping hatch in unbelievable.
You're well and truly caught up in the horror of the dealers hands now and at £150+ an hour labour it's not hard to see how the costs escalate fast. If it is out of warranty and they are not willing to make any good will contributions I'd be thinking about putting all the bits in the back of the car and get it taken away to a reputable garage.
The car is an A1, so nothing fancy and a good mechanic will have it sorted for a lot lot less.
Edit- maybe I'm old school but how did they do a timing check on an engine with no compression on all cylinders??
Edited by Ug_lee on Thursday 17th December 16:52
I'm not sure what to add OP...
Timing chains, whilst relatively reliable, will occasionally throw a tensioner failure - causing the situation you have now.
If the car is out of warranty (which it sounds to be and will be unless you've extended it) then you don't really have another option but to press Audi UK for a goodwill gesture given it's a relatively new car. Has the car always been serviced at Audi main dealers? If so, your case for goodwill will be better.
As a precautionary measure, Audi should implement a mandatory timing chain service at 3 years' old which includes replacing the timing chains, timing chain tensioners etc. However, because it is not necessarily needed, they won't because customers will complain, probably quite rightly, about the expense.
Timing chains, whilst relatively reliable, will occasionally throw a tensioner failure - causing the situation you have now.
If the car is out of warranty (which it sounds to be and will be unless you've extended it) then you don't really have another option but to press Audi UK for a goodwill gesture given it's a relatively new car. Has the car always been serviced at Audi main dealers? If so, your case for goodwill will be better.
As a precautionary measure, Audi should implement a mandatory timing chain service at 3 years' old which includes replacing the timing chains, timing chain tensioners etc. However, because it is not necessarily needed, they won't because customers will complain, probably quite rightly, about the expense.
300 quid for a compression check is ridiculous. It cannot take more than 30 minutes.
I'd be wanting to know what caused the chain to fail.
Get your car and get it away from the dealer. Get it to an audi independent specialist whose labour charges will be more sensible. Check out prices of a used engine and weigh that up against a repair quote from the indie.
Or, and this is what is do, take your car home and DIY fix it. Our find a mate to help you, its only nuts and bolts at the end of the day. The Web is a huge resource, youtube, forums, workshop manuals etc..
I'd be wanting to know what caused the chain to fail.
Get your car and get it away from the dealer. Get it to an audi independent specialist whose labour charges will be more sensible. Check out prices of a used engine and weigh that up against a repair quote from the indie.
Or, and this is what is do, take your car home and DIY fix it. Our find a mate to help you, its only nuts and bolts at the end of the day. The Web is a huge resource, youtube, forums, workshop manuals etc..
When the camchain tensioner on my A3 failed (out of warranty) the dealer wanted almost £2k to repair it, (18hrs labour + parts IIRC).
After some negotiation they agreed to do the repair plus the (due) service for £400 all-in, so they obviously have some room for goodwill.
I'd say they can do better...
After some negotiation they agreed to do the repair plus the (due) service for £400 all-in, so they obviously have some room for goodwill.
I'd say they can do better...
MrBarry123 said:
As a precautionary measure, Audi should implement a mandatory timing chain service at 3 years' old which includes replacing the timing chains, timing chain tensioners etc. However, because it is not necessarily needed, they won't because customers will complain, probably quite rightly, about the expense.
Blimey - that's way more often than the rubber belts need changing.Sheepshanks said:
MrBarry123 said:
As a precautionary measure, Audi should implement a mandatory timing chain service at 3 years' old which includes replacing the timing chains, timing chain tensioners etc. However, because it is not necessarily needed, they won't because customers will complain, probably quite rightly, about the expense.
Blimey - that's way more often than the rubber belts need changing.Whilst I agree that such a service for engines with a timing chain would, for the most part, be excessive, I'd assume it'd drastically reduce the number of timing chain failures as those that do go seem to go around the 4-6 year mark.
Assuming it's a 1.2/1.4 tfsi engine (same as the Seat tsi) - then there is a known problem with cam chain tensioners failing on those. Many people (including myself) have had to chase dealers / manufacturers inside and outside of warranty periods when the initial rattles are heard ("they all do that sir") or, if you're unlucky / not persistent after it goes pop "oh, you should have had that rattle checked sir".
I was lucky (complained early about fault) and after a bit of fobbing off the dealer and Seat eventually paid for replacement parts and fitting even though it was outside of warranty (it was raised whilst in warranty).
Lots of reports of it:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tsi+camchain+ten...
I was lucky (complained early about fault) and after a bit of fobbing off the dealer and Seat eventually paid for replacement parts and fitting even though it was outside of warranty (it was raised whilst in warranty).
Lots of reports of it:
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=tsi+camchain+ten...
thanks every body, great help
my car is 1.2 Audi -heard it is a known Timing Chain problem
serviced regularly in loca garage but not main dealer.
light driving last year 5500 miles and passed mot and just serviced , and this Syedham Audi-told me brake disc is 90% worn, how a joke, it is?
Story -20 days ago and just before my service and MOT due, i found bigger noise from the engine and only ok on Gear 1 and gear 2-sometimes shaking as well, Gear 3 Gear 4-big shaking, next day sent to local garage, i get the MoT passed and full service, said the problem to them and they could not sort it as need a special equipment, later on the car found in the garage can not start, my garage people suggested me to send to Audi suspecting the Timing chain and said Audi may come to help for the cost. but this
Sydenham Audi-140 Mayor Road SE26 4HZ
they gave me a fat invoice and even ask to change the brake disc.
and as you can see £3800 bill .
I feel they are just ugly and disgusting.
Every - please give furthter advice. many thanks
my car is 1.2 Audi -heard it is a known Timing Chain problem
serviced regularly in loca garage but not main dealer.
light driving last year 5500 miles and passed mot and just serviced , and this Syedham Audi-told me brake disc is 90% worn, how a joke, it is?
Story -20 days ago and just before my service and MOT due, i found bigger noise from the engine and only ok on Gear 1 and gear 2-sometimes shaking as well, Gear 3 Gear 4-big shaking, next day sent to local garage, i get the MoT passed and full service, said the problem to them and they could not sort it as need a special equipment, later on the car found in the garage can not start, my garage people suggested me to send to Audi suspecting the Timing chain and said Audi may come to help for the cost. but this
Sydenham Audi-140 Mayor Road SE26 4HZ
they gave me a fat invoice and even ask to change the brake disc.
and as you can see £3800 bill .
I feel they are just ugly and disgusting.
Every - please give furthter advice. many thanks
Timing chain problems are unfortunately very common on 1.2 and 1.4 TSI engines, it's part of the reason why they've switched back to Cambelt for the latest generation. Audi are lying if they are trying to deny it being a regular occurrence.
Unfortunately if you're not protected by warranty and can't get any goodwill from Audi/ the dealer then it will be an expensive fix. Sourcing a reconditioned engine and having a specialist fit is probably the best bet.
Unfortunately if you're not protected by warranty and can't get any goodwill from Audi/ the dealer then it will be an expensive fix. Sourcing a reconditioned engine and having a specialist fit is probably the best bet.
daydotz said:
I'm not surprised theirs more cases of the 1.2 failing the 1.4 has failed in the past but I've not heard of it failing in the A1 or anything around 3 years old
People used to say the newer ones didn't suffer the same problem but I suspect its just age related, since a 2011 would now be coming up to 5-years old. I also don't think mileage comes into it, probably more likely to be caused by number of cold starts.In VWs defence lots of other manufactures have similar problems with timing chains, e.g. BMW N47 and the Vauxhall 1.2 unit.
It sounds like you need to push back strongly with both your dealer and Audi Uk customer services. Reading your posts I get the impression you are not very mechanically minded, this may be partly why they are saying no and not really helping you. Is there someone you can take along/involve to help you push 'technically'?
va1o said:
daydotz said:
I'm not surprised theirs more cases of the 1.2 failing the 1.4 has failed in the past but I've not heard of it failing in the A1 or anything around 3 years old
People used to say the newer ones didn't suffer the same problem but I suspect its just age related, since a 2011 would now be coming up to 5-years old. I also don't think mileage comes into it, probably more likely to be caused by number of cold starts.In VWs defence lots of other manufactures have similar problems with timing chains, e.g. BMW N47 and the Vauxhall 1.2 unit.
I'd be more worried about then compression test been carried out on the engine. You say that there is damage to the piston due to contact with the valves. To do a compression test they will have to crank the engine over, quiet a few times. If they knew there was a possibility of damage this shouldn't have been done. Also, no way it takes 2 hours to do it!
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