Help! Harsh Speakers hurt my ears.
Discussion
Hi all,
Currently have a pair of B&W dm303 speakers powered by a t-amp. I've had them several years now but a while back I realised that I don't like listening to them.
I do like the detail and clarity, but the treble hurts my ears. I can't listen to them above low volumes without it aggravating me.
So, I'm looking to replace them with a used pair of speakers that are detailed but smooth to listen to, with a soft treble.
I've read a lot about meridian dsp5000s being very smooth and detailed, but they aren't so frequently for sale where I am.
I've also seen an ad for a nice pair of rogers studio 3, but I've no idea if they are too bright. I'm prepared to drive to check them out and hear for myself but if others have experience I'd be keen to hear it.
Thoughts/suggestions appreciated!
Currently have a pair of B&W dm303 speakers powered by a t-amp. I've had them several years now but a while back I realised that I don't like listening to them.
I do like the detail and clarity, but the treble hurts my ears. I can't listen to them above low volumes without it aggravating me.
So, I'm looking to replace them with a used pair of speakers that are detailed but smooth to listen to, with a soft treble.
I've read a lot about meridian dsp5000s being very smooth and detailed, but they aren't so frequently for sale where I am.
I've also seen an ad for a nice pair of rogers studio 3, but I've no idea if they are too bright. I'm prepared to drive to check them out and hear for myself but if others have experience I'd be keen to hear it.
Thoughts/suggestions appreciated!
And you are certain it is the speakers because? No mention of source , room , how your speakers are mounted etc. You can make lots of changes by looking at how your kit is mounted and what materials and soft furnishings you have in your listening room. You can just buy different speakers with no treble but you would probably lose the clarity you desire. Ideally you need to try a few experiments and if you can borrow some speakers this is worth while.
Now to wind up all the electricians and some audiphiles...
I have found the biggest effect on over bright treble to be fuses. Are your speakers fused ? Try replacing all your mains leads with un fused ones and take fuses out of the kit. If this solves your issue then remove all or all but the fuse to the wall connection. Fuses kill audio, you don't actually need one at all if you have the latest RCB with quick trip in your mains distribution. If you are worried then just one in the mains block for "safety"
Now to wind up all the electricians and some audiphiles...
I have found the biggest effect on over bright treble to be fuses. Are your speakers fused ? Try replacing all your mains leads with un fused ones and take fuses out of the kit. If this solves your issue then remove all or all but the fuse to the wall connection. Fuses kill audio, you don't actually need one at all if you have the latest RCB with quick trip in your mains distribution. If you are worried then just one in the mains block for "safety"
Speakers fused? Unless they're active speakers, why would they have fuses?
All the high end hifi I've heard sounded marvellous even though it was fused.
Apart from that, yes I agree, look at many other factors before buying different speakers. Change the direction the speakers point, change their elevation.... Source material? Poor MP3? Vinyl? Cheap CDs? Radio 1?
All the high end hifi I've heard sounded marvellous even though it was fused.
Apart from that, yes I agree, look at many other factors before buying different speakers. Change the direction the speakers point, change their elevation.... Source material? Poor MP3? Vinyl? Cheap CDs? Radio 1?
If the treble is hurting your ears you might be damaging them with the volume you are listening at. Perhaps you should pick up a dB meter to check.
I read somewhere the reason people are more likely to damage their hearing by listening to music with a lot of bass is because bass doesn't hurt, so people turn it up louder.
I read somewhere the reason people are more likely to damage their hearing by listening to music with a lot of bass is because bass doesn't hurt, so people turn it up louder.
Thanks for the replies. I'm not going to mess with the fuses though.
In the same room a sonos play1 sounds relatively quite dull but does not hurt my ears like the b&w's do.
The speakers are not ideally placed, being on a TV cabinet rather than on stands. Having an 11month old daughter makes stands too dangerous so its either bookshelves on the tv unit or very solid floorstanders that can withstand her pulling on them.
Also, I do have wooden floors with a large rug over much of it, but further room treatment is not an option.
The source is mostly Spotify from an android box and TV, but the brightness remains irrespective of source.
In the same room a sonos play1 sounds relatively quite dull but does not hurt my ears like the b&w's do.
The speakers are not ideally placed, being on a TV cabinet rather than on stands. Having an 11month old daughter makes stands too dangerous so its either bookshelves on the tv unit or very solid floorstanders that can withstand her pulling on them.
Also, I do have wooden floors with a large rug over much of it, but further room treatment is not an option.
The source is mostly Spotify from an android box and TV, but the brightness remains irrespective of source.
AlexC1981 said:
If the treble is hurting your ears you might be damaging them with the volume you are listening at. Perhaps you should pick up a dB meter to check.
I read somewhere the reason people are more likely to damage their hearing by listening to music with a lot of bass is because bass doesn't hurt, so people turn it up louder.
It's really not loud in this instance. Our walls are paper thin (can hear the neighbour talking clearly).I read somewhere the reason people are more likely to damage their hearing by listening to music with a lot of bass is because bass doesn't hurt, so people turn it up louder.
It bothers me even at quite low volumes. It feels like a certain upper frequency spike is aggravating my ears
Try them with a decent CD, rather than a crappy compressed MP3 or internet stream, see if they still sound harsh, the better the HiFi the worse an MP3 sounds!
Re fuses in passive speakers. Some do have them, often a light bulb in circuit with the HF. On some speakers, if you drive them hard, you can see the 'fuse' glowing through a bass port.
Re fuses in passive speakers. Some do have them, often a light bulb in circuit with the HF. On some speakers, if you drive them hard, you can see the 'fuse' glowing through a bass port.
benz0 said:
...but the treble hurts my ears...
As a hearing impaired PHer (DOF), may I suggest getting a hearing test.When my hearing was going I found certain high frequencies annoying. As an example, if the ventilating windows on the commuter train where partially opened they produced a sound that was horrible to my ears.
telecat said:
Personally I can't see how a "D" class amp is that good except for outright power. Have you tried a more "mormal" HiFi Amp in it's place? Try an ARCAM and see if it improves the situation.
This.. Try a class A or A/B amp.. B&W speakers have IMO always sounded a bit hard, the amp is almost certainly exacerbating this..Also, if you're playing MP3 or similar compressed format, maybe look at the resolution or rerip to FLAC or ALAC. This will add dynamic range which will help..
uV
P700DEE said:
Now to wind up all the electricians and some audiphiles...
I have found the biggest effect on over bright treble to be fuses. Are your speakers fused ? Try replacing all your mains leads with un fused ones and take fuses out of the kit. If this solves your issue then remove all or all but the fuse to the wall connection. Fuses kill audio, you don't actually need one at all if you have the latest RCB with quick trip in your mains distribution. If you are worried then just one in the mains block for "safety"
Somebody was banned from a hi-fi forum for suggesting this. Really, don't take fuses out. By all means replace them with audiophile fuses for the lovely placebo effect you get from spending money, but for safety's sake, don't just remove fuses from your kit. Link to the relevant thread on Hifi Wigwam: http://www.hifiwigwam.com/showthread.php?68024-Use...I have found the biggest effect on over bright treble to be fuses. Are your speakers fused ? Try replacing all your mains leads with un fused ones and take fuses out of the kit. If this solves your issue then remove all or all but the fuse to the wall connection. Fuses kill audio, you don't actually need one at all if you have the latest RCB with quick trip in your mains distribution. If you are worried then just one in the mains block for "safety"
Had a nosy around for opinions on the 303's and they are considered pretty neutral. To some they are even a little "flat". I suspect that they are a well balanced speaker and the T-amp is the problem as I pointed out. I do not know your budget or sources but UV is right. A class "A" or biased "A/B" would be a better bet. I would try to start with something from Cambridge Audio, Denon or Yamaha at the low end. Maybe ARCAM or Audiolab if you can afford something better. A good Valve amp should also sound superior but don't expect ground shaking levels of volume.
FlossyThePig said:
As a hearing impaired PHer (DOF), may I suggest getting a hearing test.
When my hearing was going I found certain high frequencies annoying. As an example, if the ventilating windows on the commuter train where partially opened they produced a sound that was horrible to my ears.
I'd go with this too.When my hearing was going I found certain high frequencies annoying. As an example, if the ventilating windows on the commuter train where partially opened they produced a sound that was horrible to my ears.
Tony1963 said:
megaphone said:
Re fuses in passive speakers. Some do have them, often a light bulb in circuit with the HF. On some speakers, if you drive them hard, you can see the 'fuse' glowing through a bass port.
Not on any I've ever seen! Cheap Japanese?Agree with Telecat and Ultraviolet have suggested...........the T amp could well be responsible rather than the speakers. Trying alternative amps should help get to the root of the issue.
Here's a link to a tone generator which will allow you to feed a slow sinewave sweep into your system. There's the option to use pink and white noise but sines are ideal for finding specific resonances and distortions which could be contributing to the problem. I used to work at the factory which made the moulded baffles for the 303; it may be worth checking that the screws holding the moulded baffle to the wooden sub baffle are still tight and als0 check all the drive unit screws.
The speakers aren't on stands; how are they secured to the unit they are on ? If there's any possibility of them sliding or rocking then they are very likely to rattle/buzz/resonate at some point during a 20H-20KHz sine sweep.
http://www.esseraudio.com/en/test-tone-generator-w...
Good luck.
Here's a link to a tone generator which will allow you to feed a slow sinewave sweep into your system. There's the option to use pink and white noise but sines are ideal for finding specific resonances and distortions which could be contributing to the problem. I used to work at the factory which made the moulded baffles for the 303; it may be worth checking that the screws holding the moulded baffle to the wooden sub baffle are still tight and als0 check all the drive unit screws.
The speakers aren't on stands; how are they secured to the unit they are on ? If there's any possibility of them sliding or rocking then they are very likely to rattle/buzz/resonate at some point during a 20H-20KHz sine sweep.
http://www.esseraudio.com/en/test-tone-generator-w...
Good luck.
Thanks all,
I will get a hearing test as I have noticed some tinnitus and occasional difficulties with hearing people talking in busy restaurants etc.
I've just driven to my storage unit and dusted off my old technics new class A Amp. Wary of making immediate claims however I think it's definitely more listenable. I've also turned the treble down a little on the tone controls.
There is still a bit of a treble spike, but it seems a lot less annoying and smoother to listen to.
I would compare the treble spike to the audible equivalent of when you get a bright light shine in your eyes.
Longer term I'd still like some softer speakers so will keep my eyes and ears!! peeled.
I will get a hearing test as I have noticed some tinnitus and occasional difficulties with hearing people talking in busy restaurants etc.
I've just driven to my storage unit and dusted off my old technics new class A Amp. Wary of making immediate claims however I think it's definitely more listenable. I've also turned the treble down a little on the tone controls.
There is still a bit of a treble spike, but it seems a lot less annoying and smoother to listen to.
I would compare the treble spike to the audible equivalent of when you get a bright light shine in your eyes.
Longer term I'd still like some softer speakers so will keep my eyes and ears!! peeled.
I used to have a pair of DM303s and they were most certainly not bright or harsh sounding.
I'm willing to bet that your T Amp is part of the problem, and I suspect the other part is possibly a low bit rate from Spotify but more likely the quality of the DACs in the TV and Android box.
You would most likely find a massive improvement buying a cheap DAC off Ebay, and feeding that into your amp (for Spotify at least).
I'm willing to bet that your T Amp is part of the problem, and I suspect the other part is possibly a low bit rate from Spotify but more likely the quality of the DACs in the TV and Android box.
You would most likely find a massive improvement buying a cheap DAC off Ebay, and feeding that into your amp (for Spotify at least).
TonyRPH said:
I used to have a pair of DM303s and they were most certainly not bright or harsh sounding.
I'm willing to bet that your T Amp is part of the problem, and I suspect the other part is possibly a low bit rate from Spotify but more likely the quality of the DACs in the TV and Android box.
You would most likely find a massive improvement buying a cheap DAC off Ebay, and feeding that into your amp (for Spotify at least).
Thabks! Different amp has made a big difference. Re DAC I'm using a behringer uca202 connected to my android box via USB.I'm willing to bet that your T Amp is part of the problem, and I suspect the other part is possibly a low bit rate from Spotify but more likely the quality of the DACs in the TV and Android box.
You would most likely find a massive improvement buying a cheap DAC off Ebay, and feeding that into your amp (for Spotify at least).
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