Caymen 2.7 2015 go?
Discussion
A friend is inquiring about a 2015 Boxter. hes asked my advice
not an expert in any of this all i know is they are nice. that's about it.
I did suggest he look at last shape spyders or type R if depreciation is a consideration (is that reasonable advice?) but I also told him to buy a 4C so what do I know.
Is a 2015 PDK 2.7 Caymen a good buy?
his budget is 38-43 ish
not an expert in any of this all i know is they are nice. that's about it.
I did suggest he look at last shape spyders or type R if depreciation is a consideration (is that reasonable advice?) but I also told him to buy a 4C so what do I know.
Is a 2015 PDK 2.7 Caymen a good buy?
his budget is 38-43 ish
My opinion is the complete opposite. PDK has shorter overall gearing and one extra gear, plus the effortless and quick shifting allows you to shift down and get it into the power band where you wouldn't bother with the manual.
"just stamping on the loud pedal waiting" may be accurate while you're driving it in automatic mode but who does that to have fun?
987 Spyder, R and 4C are all good suggestions.
"just stamping on the loud pedal waiting" may be accurate while you're driving it in automatic mode but who does that to have fun?
987 Spyder, R and 4C are all good suggestions.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
I'd agree about the sweet engine and perceived gutlessness but I'm with EricE and take a different view about PDK. The high gearing is the major reason for the perceived lack of grunt - and PDK does some way to redress that being 10-15% lower geared in the intermdediates. True if you let the PDK box do it's own thing in Normal mode then you will have to wait for it to decide to get in a suitable gear, but if you use Sport mode - or (far better) drive it in manual mode you have the advantages of the lower gearing and faster, smoother gearshifts. In short if you drive in PDK manual you have a more responsive and, in practise, faster car. Whether you prefer the greater interaction you get with a manual gearbox is a subjective issue that only you can decide.All that said I chose a 3.4 (PDK) because the 2.7 is engine-wise a bit of an all or nothing car -perfectly OK for cruising and great when wringing it's neck - the 3.4 does 7 tenths much better.
Edited by bcr5784 on Tuesday 5th January 19:22
EricE said:
My opinion is the complete opposite. PDK has shorter overall gearing and one extra gear, plus the effortless and quick shifting allows you to shift down and get it into the power band where you wouldn't bother with the manual.
"just stamping on the loud pedal waiting" may be accurate while you're driving it in automatic mode but who does that to have fun?
Agree, 2.7 is best with PDK- needs lots of gear changes which PDK does brilliantly. 3.4 and a manual makes more sense, more torque to deal with the high gearing and less changes needed as a result."just stamping on the loud pedal waiting" may be accurate while you're driving it in automatic mode but who does that to have fun?
With cmoose. I guess a 2.7 would be akin to a old skool hot hatch in manual guise. Only with way better handling, mid corner balance and braking.
I guess it just shows how different we all are. I drove a 3.4 987 Spyder pdk and thought it was total dog xxxx. You just sit there like a spare one waiting for the red line before you press a button. So uninvolving. Tried the manual and whoo hoo! So much to think about approaching a bend hot, having to bang in a quick heel and toe downshift before you throw it in.
On faster cars like 400 bhp plus 911, the pdk is something else. Like you need the added assistance of the gearbox so you can concentrate on other stuff as its travelling much faster.
I guess it just shows how different we all are. I drove a 3.4 987 Spyder pdk and thought it was total dog xxxx. You just sit there like a spare one waiting for the red line before you press a button. So uninvolving. Tried the manual and whoo hoo! So much to think about approaching a bend hot, having to bang in a quick heel and toe downshift before you throw it in.
On faster cars like 400 bhp plus 911, the pdk is something else. Like you need the added assistance of the gearbox so you can concentrate on other stuff as its travelling much faster.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yeah I hear you and understand the logic. Having lived with a 2.7 pdk over 24,000 miles it really suited the engine; one thing that I really liked was being able to use 1st gear whilst in motion, not something I've ever felt comfortable with on a manual (any car). During twisty hoons it was great for firing the car out of hairpins and helped keep the engine on the boil. I did test a manual 2.7 before deciding on pdk- great gearbox but I felt didn't compliment the engine, take 10/15mph of the ratios and it would have been ace.I think you can enjoy the PDK just as much as a manual, slonk around in full auto if you so wish, or set your pants on fire in full manual mode, going up and down the box with the paddles and wringing every last once out of the engine. What ever your friend decides they are fantastic fun, compared with what else is out there.
I rented a 2.7 PDK Cayman in San Francisco a couple of months ago, had it for a week and did a decent number if miles in it. Bottom line was that is was a fantastic car, louder than I expected but took me longer to get comfortable with than the 987 Cayman I've spent time with before, felt a bit more "at arms length".
I can't see how anyone would be disappointed or dislike the car, it's amazing... But I'd always go for the S, the chassis needs a little extra shove to make it entertaining on the road (i.e. more slow in fast out on country roads) and the added refinement adds to that for me also.
Stretch for the S if you can!
I can't see how anyone would be disappointed or dislike the car, it's amazing... But I'd always go for the S, the chassis needs a little extra shove to make it entertaining on the road (i.e. more slow in fast out on country roads) and the added refinement adds to that for me also.
Stretch for the S if you can!
Although the high gearing has been alluded to, in case you haven't seen the figures, the manual car does about 80 in second and 115 (Mph!) in third - so you won't be doing much gearchanging if you are hooning it and want to keep your license. The (same) manual gearing is criticised on the GT4 as still being too high with a 3.8 engine. The other point not made is that the 7th gear of PDK allows for much more relaxed motorway cruising - though you will have to drop into 6th pretty often with the 2.7.
But in the end it comes down to personal preference, factoring in the type of driving you do, and you should try both pdk and manual and both 3.4 and 2.7. Some (quite reasonably) have rejected the 3.4 on the grounds that it is too easy to get into license losing territory - it may not be hypercar quick - but 0-100mph in 11 seconds isn't slow.
But in the end it comes down to personal preference, factoring in the type of driving you do, and you should try both pdk and manual and both 3.4 and 2.7. Some (quite reasonably) have rejected the 3.4 on the grounds that it is too easy to get into license losing territory - it may not be hypercar quick - but 0-100mph in 11 seconds isn't slow.
bcr5784 said:
Although the high gearing has been alluded to, in case you haven't seen the figures, the manual car does about 80 in second
More like 84mph from memory just to be pedantic. The 115mph in 3rd is about right. Both quite depressing 
Some outfit somewhere is going to cash in on the silly 981 ratios and produce a reliable shorter final drive. And in about 5 years time, I reckon the pick of the Porsche sportscar line up is going to be a used 981 manual 3.4 Cayster with a 15% shorter final drive and 375bhp tune that the chap in Germany is doing for about 3K euros. THAT would be a fantastic motorcar
I don't have the figures, but when I went to PEC and drove a manual BGTS, I also took my 7.1 GT3 with me to use in the afternoon on their tracks. I did some very specific tests while there and max speed in 2nd (at 7800rpm) was to within ~1mph or so of what I could do in 2nd in my GT3 (84mph at 8400rpm).
As I've said before, if I think the gearing on my GT3 was too long for road use, it's unlikely I'm going to think even longer gearing on a Cayster is going to be a good idea!
I appreciate that actual speeds may be slightly different from indicated (and also vary slightly between models), but in reality we drive based on what the speedo tells us. And when I was wringing out the manual BGTS at PEC and seeing well over 80mph indicated in second, it was very disappointing.
Ultimately we always say it's how the car makes you feel, and plenty of people are fine (or at least not too frustrated) with the manual gearing. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them and it helped me make the decision to go PDK route. If the BGTS had been going to be my only fun car, my choice may have been different as a manual will always give in a way that a PDK can't. But luckily for me I can get my manual kicks elsewhere and having a PDK car is a nice bit of variety.
As I've said before, if I think the gearing on my GT3 was too long for road use, it's unlikely I'm going to think even longer gearing on a Cayster is going to be a good idea!
I appreciate that actual speeds may be slightly different from indicated (and also vary slightly between models), but in reality we drive based on what the speedo tells us. And when I was wringing out the manual BGTS at PEC and seeing well over 80mph indicated in second, it was very disappointing.
Ultimately we always say it's how the car makes you feel, and plenty of people are fine (or at least not too frustrated) with the manual gearing. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them and it helped me make the decision to go PDK route. If the BGTS had been going to be my only fun car, my choice may have been different as a manual will always give in a way that a PDK can't. But luckily for me I can get my manual kicks elsewhere and having a PDK car is a nice bit of variety.
I find my myself agreeing with CMOOSE on this......
I can remember in the past when car companies made sure that a car could do at least 62mph in second gear to keep the 0-60 times down.
I can't help think that most people on a bit of a charge will be changing gear normally around the 7k mark and from memory the torque curve is best between 4500k and 6500k. In reality this would mean an actual speed of say 67/68mph in 2nd, although I agree that 3rd gear looks/feels a bit long at over 100mph which ever way you look at it.
For me the main issue is the low down torque (or lack of it). If I 'forget' that I'm not in my turbo charged hot hatch and change up too soon, it seems to take an age in third gear to build up the revs to the point when things begin to get the least bit interesting.
When the car is in the sweet spot, it's quick enough, but it does need the driver to put in a bit more effort to get the best out of it, but you also have to be realistic and accept that it's a 40k car and not an 85k Carrera S!!
I can remember in the past when car companies made sure that a car could do at least 62mph in second gear to keep the 0-60 times down.
I can't help think that most people on a bit of a charge will be changing gear normally around the 7k mark and from memory the torque curve is best between 4500k and 6500k. In reality this would mean an actual speed of say 67/68mph in 2nd, although I agree that 3rd gear looks/feels a bit long at over 100mph which ever way you look at it.
For me the main issue is the low down torque (or lack of it). If I 'forget' that I'm not in my turbo charged hot hatch and change up too soon, it seems to take an age in third gear to build up the revs to the point when things begin to get the least bit interesting.
When the car is in the sweet spot, it's quick enough, but it does need the driver to put in a bit more effort to get the best out of it, but you also have to be realistic and accept that it's a 40k car and not an 85k Carrera S!!
See what you mean ref changing at 7k rpm, but the fact remains that the rev limit is 7.8k rpm and is there to be used, which it can't effectively be on UK roads. Otherwise they should have just kept the limit at a bit over 7K and been done with it. And at the end of the day we're just making excuses for the fact that Porsche gave it the silly gearing for emissions and performance restriction purposes and no other reason.
ETA: ref low down torque, that's actually one of things that catches me out with the PDK - I'm so used to 6 sp cars that when I'm in seventh and flick down 3 gears for an overtake, I assume I'm in 3rd and am then massively disappointed by the peeformance until I realize I'm still one gear to high
ETA: ref low down torque, that's actually one of things that catches me out with the PDK - I'm so used to 6 sp cars that when I'm in seventh and flick down 3 gears for an overtake, I assume I'm in 3rd and am then massively disappointed by the peeformance until I realize I'm still one gear to high
Pesty said:
A friend is inquiring about a 2015 Boxter. hes asked my advice
not an expert in any of this all i know is they are nice. that's about it.
I did suggest he look at last shape spyders or type R if depreciation is a consideration (is that reasonable advice?) but I also told him to buy a 4C so what do I know.
Is a 2015 PDK 2.7 Caymen a good buy?
his budget is 38-43 ish
What does he want from it? What has he come out of?not an expert in any of this all i know is they are nice. that's about it.
I did suggest he look at last shape spyders or type R if depreciation is a consideration (is that reasonable advice?) but I also told him to buy a 4C so what do I know.
Is a 2015 PDK 2.7 Caymen a good buy?
his budget is 38-43 ish
If his dream car is an Aventador, he'll perhaps want the highest power he can get, PDK or manual.
If it's a daily driver, like my 2014 2.7 PDK, he'll find the auto box great for traffic, the PDK fun in manual mode with the gear lever, and sufficient power for quick overtakes and lots of lovely high revving NOISE from the engine, the latter of which you won't get so much of in the S as you'll not need to rev it so much.
I tried 2.7 and 3.4 and chose the former as it was fine for my requirements, having come out of a 2012 TTS.
He just needs to DRIVE as many different ones as he can, and then choose.
For the record the calculated speeds in 2nd and 3rd on (standard) 18" wheels (not allowing for tyre growth or minor differences between tyre brands) are 79.7 and 112 at 7800rpm (red line) at 7400 (peak power) they are 75.6 and 106mph. They are practically identical on 19 or 20" wheels.
DJMC said:
What does he want from it? What has he come out of?
If his dream car is an Aventador, he'll perhaps want the highest power he can get, PDK or manual.
If it's a daily driver, like my 2014 2.7 PDK, he'll find the auto box great for traffic, the PDK fun in manual mode with the gear lever, and sufficient power for quick overtakes and lots of lovely high revving NOISE from the engine, the latter of which you won't get so much of in the S as you'll not need to rev it so much.
I tried 2.7 and 3.4 and chose the former as it was fine for my requirements, having come out of a 2012 TTS.
He just needs to DRIVE as many different ones as he can, and then choose.
A3 convertible. If his dream car is an Aventador, he'll perhaps want the highest power he can get, PDK or manual.
If it's a daily driver, like my 2014 2.7 PDK, he'll find the auto box great for traffic, the PDK fun in manual mode with the gear lever, and sufficient power for quick overtakes and lots of lovely high revving NOISE from the engine, the latter of which you won't get so much of in the S as you'll not need to rev it so much.
I tried 2.7 and 3.4 and chose the former as it was fine for my requirements, having come out of a 2012 TTS.
He just needs to DRIVE as many different ones as he can, and then choose.
Can't say for sure. He has had access last year to a an R8 and a California.
I think he just wants a little sports car for a bit of weekend fun. I know his son is a Porsche fan. He has had a few family losses recently and can't take it with him was the only reason he gave me.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Correct. I made the mistake once with a brand new Audi TT dsg when they first came out in 2003....believed all the hype 'not an automatic....best of both worlds' rubbish...never again.Well, not in a sports car.... Merc limo or SUV 4 x 4 perhaps....but I can't ever see myself wanting to buy one of those!!
Edited by FrankCayman on Saturday 9th January 08:58
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