Drivers license revoke - Advice required
Discussion
Hi to all,
I am very new here after being referred from another BB. It seems like an extremely lively forum with loads of advice and talk going on.
I am hoping to obtain some advice regarding my license that has very recently been revoked. I do wish to firstly acknowledge that contrary to the information in my post, I am fully support responsible driving according to the road traffic act and accept full responsible for the situation i find myself in. I have held a car license for 14 years and a bike license for just over 2 years with 2 penalty incident which are described in the post.
As mentioned i have held a full car license for 14 years with no penalty or other incidents over this time. I did however get a full bike license in december 2002 and was stopped doing 53 in a 40 zone and received 3 penalty points on license in july 2003. I recently was stopped for defective tyres. To cut a long story short, i accepted the guilt when served with a summons and paid the fine. I have just received a letter from DVLA to return my license and counterpart due to being revoked which i have now done.
On the traffic officers notes, the traffic officer stated that my rear tyre had less than 2mm of tread. Now, i do accept that my tyres were very borderline, i never actually checked the measurement(thus do not know what the actual tread depth was) and, i know that that a motorcycle tyre requires more than 1mm(across 0.75 of the tyre face). My question is the following. Even though i have admitted guilt voluntarily, are there any grounds of taking the traffic officers note of 'less than 2mm' back to the court?
Please note that i am in no way attacking the traffic police profession, rather the opposite, i am hoping someone within the traffic officer profession can provide their advice from their experience of dealing with cases such as this.
I this something i shoudl pursue and if so, how long such action take and at what costs? Is it worth my while.
I do naturally need to drive due to being self-employed.
Many thanks in advance.
regards,
Bradley
I am very new here after being referred from another BB. It seems like an extremely lively forum with loads of advice and talk going on.
I am hoping to obtain some advice regarding my license that has very recently been revoked. I do wish to firstly acknowledge that contrary to the information in my post, I am fully support responsible driving according to the road traffic act and accept full responsible for the situation i find myself in. I have held a car license for 14 years and a bike license for just over 2 years with 2 penalty incident which are described in the post.
As mentioned i have held a full car license for 14 years with no penalty or other incidents over this time. I did however get a full bike license in december 2002 and was stopped doing 53 in a 40 zone and received 3 penalty points on license in july 2003. I recently was stopped for defective tyres. To cut a long story short, i accepted the guilt when served with a summons and paid the fine. I have just received a letter from DVLA to return my license and counterpart due to being revoked which i have now done.
On the traffic officers notes, the traffic officer stated that my rear tyre had less than 2mm of tread. Now, i do accept that my tyres were very borderline, i never actually checked the measurement(thus do not know what the actual tread depth was) and, i know that that a motorcycle tyre requires more than 1mm(across 0.75 of the tyre face). My question is the following. Even though i have admitted guilt voluntarily, are there any grounds of taking the traffic officers note of 'less than 2mm' back to the court?
Please note that i am in no way attacking the traffic police profession, rather the opposite, i am hoping someone within the traffic officer profession can provide their advice from their experience of dealing with cases such as this.
I this something i shoudl pursue and if so, how long such action take and at what costs? Is it worth my while.
I do naturally need to drive due to being self-employed.
Many thanks in advance.
regards,
Bradley
You have the option of either appealing against the conviction or the sentence or both. There are time limits involved if you want to do this. I cannot tell you what they are but a google search ih the right area will tell you.
If you believe the tyres were borderline, why did you not measure them yourself and then conduct your decision about guilt on those findings?
its possible you may have left it too late to do anything about. You need to get cracking on it ASAP if you are going to make an appeal!
Before you do make any appeal, make sure that the offence you were prosecuted for is for the offence you think it is. There are many offences relating to tyres. One such would be the base of any original groove not visible. This does not require to be in the 75% 1mm band. If any groove becomes invisible, the offence is complete. Chords exposed/bulge/cuts are all offences. Check to see what you pleaded guilty on before you start to challenge the evidence.
If the wrong offnce has been prosecuted, you may have grounds for your appeal.
Do you still have the tyres?
Don't use any other tyre than those which were on the machine as tyres have serial numbers and they will probably have been noted in the officers evidence!
If you believe the tyres were borderline, why did you not measure them yourself and then conduct your decision about guilt on those findings?
its possible you may have left it too late to do anything about. You need to get cracking on it ASAP if you are going to make an appeal!
Before you do make any appeal, make sure that the offence you were prosecuted for is for the offence you think it is. There are many offences relating to tyres. One such would be the base of any original groove not visible. This does not require to be in the 75% 1mm band. If any groove becomes invisible, the offence is complete. Chords exposed/bulge/cuts are all offences. Check to see what you pleaded guilty on before you start to challenge the evidence.
If the wrong offnce has been prosecuted, you may have grounds for your appeal.
Do you still have the tyres?
Don't use any other tyre than those which were on the machine as tyres have serial numbers and they will probably have been noted in the officers evidence!
Hi guys/girls,
What a fantastic response from what seems to be a great forum(new here but have
been reading since i weas referred earlier this afternoon).
First of all, nubbin, thanks for correcting my obvious newbie error. I'll try be
more careful and accurate in future especially now that I have been around the
site a bit since my original post.
gone
I think you are very correct that i need to make haste if I want to take any action to protect my license(or should i say the lack of it). To answer a few of your questions, i knew in advance that i needed to change tyres through a visual check(i am not really a person that would measure them until they are 1.00001mm before changing tyres - possibly to my detriment). When stopped, i accepted what i was told. The reason i never contested the evidence is primarily due to not realizing that i have limited points, that a court would add additional points and also due to the fact that being self-employed and accepting that the traffic officers measurement was correct(taking into consideration that i never actually measured myself). Being self-employed and with the other reasons above, it would cost me a lot more as a sole trader to accept guilt with not personally appearing in court. I also have very little experience where breaking the law goes. very un-streetwise i suppose(Even though holding my car license for 14 years without any offense whatsoever). Thanks for your advice. i realise i need to take some action if possible.
kenvinday.
Thank you for your response. I called the DVLA this morning and have been informed that the court has imposed 3 penalty points on my license which, with the previous 3-points took me to the limit of 6 points(both offences while riding a bike occurred within the first 2 years(i have only recently found myself in this situation due to the court case being on 31 January 2005).
LongQ
All license have been revoked even though the only offences i have committed were while riding the bike. I have been told that points are allocated aginst the person and not the license category which, while i accept full responsibility for my actions and offences committed, does seem a little unfair wrt to the 2 year rule(6-points)
Once again, many thanks for all your input and hope something positive comes out of this post(even if simple enlightenment)
regards,
Bradley
What a fantastic response from what seems to be a great forum(new here but have
been reading since i weas referred earlier this afternoon).
First of all, nubbin, thanks for correcting my obvious newbie error. I'll try be
more careful and accurate in future especially now that I have been around the
site a bit since my original post.
gone
I think you are very correct that i need to make haste if I want to take any action to protect my license(or should i say the lack of it). To answer a few of your questions, i knew in advance that i needed to change tyres through a visual check(i am not really a person that would measure them until they are 1.00001mm before changing tyres - possibly to my detriment). When stopped, i accepted what i was told. The reason i never contested the evidence is primarily due to not realizing that i have limited points, that a court would add additional points and also due to the fact that being self-employed and accepting that the traffic officers measurement was correct(taking into consideration that i never actually measured myself). Being self-employed and with the other reasons above, it would cost me a lot more as a sole trader to accept guilt with not personally appearing in court. I also have very little experience where breaking the law goes. very un-streetwise i suppose(Even though holding my car license for 14 years without any offense whatsoever). Thanks for your advice. i realise i need to take some action if possible.
kenvinday.
Thank you for your response. I called the DVLA this morning and have been informed that the court has imposed 3 penalty points on my license which, with the previous 3-points took me to the limit of 6 points(both offences while riding a bike occurred within the first 2 years(i have only recently found myself in this situation due to the court case being on 31 January 2005).
LongQ
All license have been revoked even though the only offences i have committed were while riding the bike. I have been told that points are allocated aginst the person and not the license category which, while i accept full responsibility for my actions and offences committed, does seem a little unfair wrt to the 2 year rule(6-points)
Once again, many thanks for all your input and hope something positive comes out of this post(even if simple enlightenment)
regards,
Bradley
Hi Globulators,
Legal limit for a bike tyre is 1mm minimum. I am not 100% sure of the legal offence however, i have received 'Notice of Fine' from the magistrates Court' stating 'VH.DEFECT-USE PASS.VEHICLE TYRES INSUFFICIEN FO 40.00'. This is printed twice plus a court charge of 35.00.
Hold on....
While typing this, i am now even more sure that the officer has confused the regulation of a car. ldv etc. i.e. 2mm rather than the bike rules of 1mm due to the fine i have been issued with(i have paid a cheque into the relevant account tho).
Please folks, especially a police/traffic officer, do i have any grounds. As mentioned i thought my vehicle was safe to drive based purely on a visual check within 2 days prior to being stopped for the offence. I didn't check personally(how stupid could i be). I walked the bike over to a tyre shop for new tyres due to not being allowed to ride the bike and left them there.
I have called my office and our post has not left thus have been able to stop my counterpart and license being returned to DVLA.
SHOULD I RETURN IT OR HOLD ONTO IT UNTIL I VISIT A SOLICITOR?
Apologies for the CAPS.
Anyhelp appreciated.
Bradley
Legal limit for a bike tyre is 1mm minimum. I am not 100% sure of the legal offence however, i have received 'Notice of Fine' from the magistrates Court' stating 'VH.DEFECT-USE PASS.VEHICLE TYRES INSUFFICIEN FO 40.00'. This is printed twice plus a court charge of 35.00.
Hold on....
While typing this, i am now even more sure that the officer has confused the regulation of a car. ldv etc. i.e. 2mm rather than the bike rules of 1mm due to the fine i have been issued with(i have paid a cheque into the relevant account tho).
Please folks, especially a police/traffic officer, do i have any grounds. As mentioned i thought my vehicle was safe to drive based purely on a visual check within 2 days prior to being stopped for the offence. I didn't check personally(how stupid could i be). I walked the bike over to a tyre shop for new tyres due to not being allowed to ride the bike and left them there.
I have called my office and our post has not left thus have been able to stop my counterpart and license being returned to DVLA.
SHOULD I RETURN IT OR HOLD ONTO IT UNTIL I VISIT A SOLICITOR?
Apologies for the CAPS.
Anyhelp appreciated.
Bradley
Just to clarify my previous post, i was riding a motorcycle rather than a passenger vehicle as seems to be indicated by the fine offence description of VH.DEFECT-USE PASS.VEH.TYRES INSUFFICIEN' and the note on the traffic officers report provided to court where it was stated that the tread was less than 2mm.
Am i seeing that i may not have been riding with illegal tyres and that i should never have been issued with a penalty?
Bradley
Am i seeing that i may not have been riding with illegal tyres and that i should never have been issued with a penalty?
Bradley
bradley112 said:
H
LongQ
All license have been revoked even though the only offences i have committed were while riding the bike. I have been told that points are allocated aginst the person and not the license category which, while i accept full responsibility for my actions and offences committed, does seem a little unfair wrt to the 2 year rule(6-points)
This seems absurd to me - so you can have a car licence for 14yrs, then add motorbike category, and the WHOLE licence gets withdrawn if you get 6 points in 2 yrs?? Surely that can't be correct - can it?
Or has the OP misunderstood and perhaps the licence will be returned with the motorbike category removed?
bobbins said:
This seems absurd to me - so you can have a car licence for 14yrs, then add motorbike category, and the WHOLE licence gets withdrawn if you get 6 points in 2 yrs?? Surely that can't be correct - can it?
Or has the OP misunderstood and perhaps the licence will be returned with the motorbike category removed?
I'm with you on this one. NO WAY should you lose your car licence over this! Maybe the entitlement to ride a bike but I thought all this two year malarky was for those who had NEVER held a licence before or spotty youths to stop them getting too frisky on the road. I'd be ringing DVLA up and giving them grief over this. I'd also contest the officers evidence as he has misquoted the minimum tread depth for solo motorcycles. Fight it fella as normally when new drivers lose their licence over totting up I'm told they have to take their test again.
Hi there,
My original understanding prior to this event was exactly that. i am not sure where i read it or who told me so. i was however informed on another board this moring by a single poster that it is indeed so. When contacting DVLA, they confirmed that all my licenses have been revoked.
My original understanding prior to this event was exactly that. i am not sure where i read it or who told me so. i was however informed on another board this moring by a single poster that it is indeed so. When contacting DVLA, they confirmed that all my licenses have been revoked.
bobbins said:
H
LongQ
All license have been revoked even though the only offences i have committed were while riding the bike. I have been told that points are allocated aginst the person and not the license category which, while i accept full responsibility for my actions and offences committed, does seem a little unfair wrt to the 2 year rule(6-points)
This seems absurd to me - so you can have a car licence for 14yrs, then add motorbike category, and the WHOLE licence gets withdrawn if you get 6 points in 2 yrs?? Surely that can't be correct - can it?
Or has the OP misunderstood and perhaps the licence will be returned with the motorbike category removed?
Hi kiwi,
Unfortunately i please guilty in absence(court hearing was on 31/01/2005) thinking i would simply get a fine(never even considered i would get points).
My reasons are now very inavlid but i chose to accept the officers case based on accepting the fact that he should know more than me AND, most also, due to being self-exmployed and needing to work, the loss of income of the fine would have been les than the income i could have earned by working(rather than attending court in person.
To be honest, i have realized alot from this board today and it wouldn't have made a diffeerence if I appeared in perosn. I am not a lawyer and would not have established the true circumstances surrounding my case at the time even if attending the court in person. Would have probably made a bigger idiot of myself in the siutation.
I also can't believe i didn't question the issue of 'tyre had less than 2mm' because i know from theory that motorcycles require a minimum of 1mm. I guess it was simply an oversight combined with other worries on my mind at the time.
In hindsite, i now want to utlize the situation i am in to prevent the loss of my license while any such basis exists.
Does anyone have furtehr advice on whether, from their experience, legal advice would 'definitely' assist me in a promt restitutive solution(ideally being able to get in the car tomorrow and driving)
Thanks again.
>> Edited by bradley112 on Wednesday 16th February 22:55
Unfortunately i please guilty in absence(court hearing was on 31/01/2005) thinking i would simply get a fine(never even considered i would get points).
My reasons are now very inavlid but i chose to accept the officers case based on accepting the fact that he should know more than me AND, most also, due to being self-exmployed and needing to work, the loss of income of the fine would have been les than the income i could have earned by working(rather than attending court in person.
To be honest, i have realized alot from this board today and it wouldn't have made a diffeerence if I appeared in perosn. I am not a lawyer and would not have established the true circumstances surrounding my case at the time even if attending the court in person. Would have probably made a bigger idiot of myself in the siutation.
I also can't believe i didn't question the issue of 'tyre had less than 2mm' because i know from theory that motorcycles require a minimum of 1mm. I guess it was simply an oversight combined with other worries on my mind at the time.
In hindsite, i now want to utlize the situation i am in to prevent the loss of my license while any such basis exists.
Does anyone have furtehr advice on whether, from their experience, legal advice would 'definitely' assist me in a promt restitutive solution(ideally being able to get in the car tomorrow and driving)
Thanks again.
kiwi_in_abd said:
If the cops said it was less than 2mm you have not committed any offence so why plead guilty ? Go to court as less than 2mm could mean 1.99mm.
>> Edited by bradley112 on Wednesday 16th February 22:55
That's got to be the biggest load of arse the DVLA have ever dreamed up. Do you need your car licence in your job because if you do they've just taken your means to earn a living away. You need to contest this, get a decent solicitor now and get them to trash the reporting officers statement. There must be room to get this thrown out on a technicallity. 14 years driving experiance and you being chucked in with the kids, unbloody believable!
bradley112 said:
H
LongQ
All license have been revoked even though the only offences i have committed were while riding the bike. I have been told that points are allocated aginst the person and not the license category which, while i accept full responsibility for my actions and offences committed, does seem a little unfair wrt to the 2 year rule(6-points)
This seems absurd to me - so you can have a car licence for 14yrs, then add motorbike category, and the WHOLE licence gets withdrawn if you get 6 points in 2 yrs?? Surely that can't be correct - can it?
Or has the OP misunderstood and perhaps the licence will be returned with the motorbike category removed?
Hi there,
My original understanding prior to this event was exactly that. i am not sure where i read it or who told me so. i was however informed on another board this moring by a single poster that it is indeed so. When contacting DVLA, they confirmed that all my licenses have been revoked.
I'm not an expert, but I looked here: http://tinyurl.com/26v2b
6. The Road Traffic ( New Drivers) Act 1995
The first sentence says:
"This Act will affect you if you passed your first GB driving test after 1 June 1997 when it came into force. If the number of valid penalty points shown on your driving licence total 6 or more during the two year probationary period immediately following your first driving test, your full driving licence will be revoked by DVLA until such time as you pass a further driving test."
Note 'first GB driving test'
So, by my reading, if you've had a car licence for 14 years then this doesn't apply to you at all.
I'm not sure what to advise, but perhaps a call to the DVLA (maybe ask for a supervisor??) might be a good start.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff