Looking to buy a new Gore tex jacket, recommendations?
Discussion
Living on the cusp of Snowdonia I spend a lot of time up in the mountains. I don't go the gym either, my exercise routine consists of a 6k walk/run around the nearest Mountain 3 times a week.
So I need something that's durable.
Last time around I spent £400+ on a Rab jacket (eVent) that was a disappointment from the beginning. No more breathable than the contemporary 2 layer gore tex and it leaked like a sieve. Perhaps I expected too much and didn't maintain it properly.
I'm in a more difficult situation than most as I'm 6'7 so size is an issue.
I've spoken to my usual go to shop - Jose at Alpenstock, Stockport and she recommends a Bergans Dynamic neo jacket - They use Dermizax, a
Japanese fabric, which is apparently one of the best wicking fabrics on the market.
But I think this is a better option
https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/mountain-equipment...
If MR teams are using it, it must be durable and that is a key consideration as I work as often in the rain as I do in the office. The reflective strips are a nice touch too for the same reason - work. I often need to sit in the middle of a live carriageway, in the dark, in the rain and I don't always have my florescent jacket with me.
But ultimately, I'm looking at spending £400 on a rain coat that needs to fit, last and be easy to maintain.
Qualified thoughts please? TIA.
So I need something that's durable.
Last time around I spent £400+ on a Rab jacket (eVent) that was a disappointment from the beginning. No more breathable than the contemporary 2 layer gore tex and it leaked like a sieve. Perhaps I expected too much and didn't maintain it properly.
I'm in a more difficult situation than most as I'm 6'7 so size is an issue.
I've spoken to my usual go to shop - Jose at Alpenstock, Stockport and she recommends a Bergans Dynamic neo jacket - They use Dermizax, a
Japanese fabric, which is apparently one of the best wicking fabrics on the market.
But I think this is a better option
https://www.cotswoldoutdoor.com/mountain-equipment...
If MR teams are using it, it must be durable and that is a key consideration as I work as often in the rain as I do in the office. The reflective strips are a nice touch too for the same reason - work. I often need to sit in the middle of a live carriageway, in the dark, in the rain and I don't always have my florescent jacket with me.
But ultimately, I'm looking at spending £400 on a rain coat that needs to fit, last and be easy to maintain.
Qualified thoughts please? TIA.
Buy a keela smock. I'm not sure if they come in non military colours but they are excellent and the pockets are good too.
Wash it occasionally with tech wash.
I just spent the last 6 months getting cold, wet and muddy in the Brecon Beacons so I'm aware of how bad the weather is. You'll probably find most jackets don't feel that waterproof because of how damp the air is.
Also why is this in general gassing?
Wash it occasionally with tech wash.
I just spent the last 6 months getting cold, wet and muddy in the Brecon Beacons so I'm aware of how bad the weather is. You'll probably find most jackets don't feel that waterproof because of how damp the air is.
Also why is this in general gassing?
matthias73 said:
Also why is this in general gassing?
Either because I din't start the tread title with "So" or because I'm a halfwit who doesn't understand where to post threads like this.(I think I went to the right place, forum timed out on me, clicked back and ended up in the wrong place.)
matthias73 said:
Buy a keela smock. I'm not sure if they come in non military colours but they are excellent and the pockets are good too.
Wash it occasionally with tech wash.
I just spent the last 6 months getting cold, wet and muddy in the Brecon Beacons so I'm aware of how bad the weather is. You'll probably find most jackets don't feel that waterproof because of how damp the air is.
Really? They're £30!Wash it occasionally with tech wash.
I just spent the last 6 months getting cold, wet and muddy in the Brecon Beacons so I'm aware of how bad the weather is. You'll probably find most jackets don't feel that waterproof because of how damp the air is.
You're going to walk/run in a £480 Mountain jacket like the one linked? Do you really run?
If you do then I'd suggest two jackets - one for running, t'other for walking. If you want a crossover jacket get a mid range gore (or whatever) NF with full pit zips. Light but lined. No jacket I've ever had has kept me, Goretex or equivalent brand, completely dry whilst being effectively breathable for fast mountain walks/runs. If you want totally watertight buy a festival poncho from Ebay (£8). That and a bin bag are the only things that really work...but then they're not breathable... .
If you do then I'd suggest two jackets - one for running, t'other for walking. If you want a crossover jacket get a mid range gore (or whatever) NF with full pit zips. Light but lined. No jacket I've ever had has kept me, Goretex or equivalent brand, completely dry whilst being effectively breathable for fast mountain walks/runs. If you want totally watertight buy a festival poncho from Ebay (£8). That and a bin bag are the only things that really work...but then they're not breathable... .
I'm a big fan of my me Changabang for walking and mountaineering, but I wouldn't run up a fell in it. I think you need to do more research into goretex. Goretex isn't all the same. There are different types. The Changabang jacket will keep virtually all of the wind off you and be extremely waterproof, but it's not magic. If you run up a hill in it, it won't let all of your sweat pass through it. You'd need a more breathable jacket maybe like the Firefox? http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/firefox-jacket... However this will be less wind and waterproof because it's made of a lighter goretex.
I've never rather eVent or the north face equiv.
Stick with a decent goretex jacket and maybe get two of last seasons? One for running in and one for walking in?
I've never rather eVent or the north face equiv.
Stick with a decent goretex jacket and maybe get two of last seasons? One for running in and one for walking in?
Zombie said:
matthias73 said:
Buy a keela smock. I'm not sure if they come in non military colours but they are excellent and the pockets are good too.
Wash it occasionally with tech wash.
I just spent the last 6 months getting cold, wet and muddy in the Brecon Beacons so I'm aware of how bad the weather is. You'll probably find most jackets don't feel that waterproof because of how damp the air is.
Really? They're £30!Wash it occasionally with tech wash.
I just spent the last 6 months getting cold, wet and muddy in the Brecon Beacons so I'm aware of how bad the weather is. You'll probably find most jackets don't feel that waterproof because of how damp the air is.
But if you're going to be running/sweating your best approach is to not wear a waterproof in the first place. You'll just get wet from sweat.
I've got a Mountain Equipment Kongur. It's a nice jacket but not worth the money. It's also probably a bit stiff and noisy for running. Anything designed for mountain rescue duty is going to be weighted towards standing around in s
tty weather as opposed to high energy activities like running. Somebody mentioned Keela - great kit - I have a Munro which I much prefer to the Kongur at less than half the price. It's a lovely beefy hill jacket but I would look at their other kit for running.
Buffalo is also worth a look - don't expect it to keep you dry, however.
tty weather as opposed to high energy activities like running. Somebody mentioned Keela - great kit - I have a Munro which I much prefer to the Kongur at less than half the price. It's a lovely beefy hill jacket but I would look at their other kit for running. Buffalo is also worth a look - don't expect it to keep you dry, however.
Something I learned about goretex from years of standing in a field in heavy rain is that the fabric is a phenomenal thing and once you understand what type suits your needs it's truly amazing. However, the 5 year old Asian children who stitch the different pieces together to make the coat are the weak link.
I've never found a goretex jacket that when it finally starts leaking is not doing so around a seam. They either leak from there from day one as they were designed badly or start to leak eventually around the joints which get stretched the most during usage.
What helps immensely is to use an appropriate water proofing spray just on the tops of the shoulders and very top of the neck. I have found that this stops the vast bul of the rain water from getting under the first fabric layer in the first instance, the under layer leaks are always in the shoulder, neck area also and it leaves the fabric still able to breath as it should.
If you can actually get to the goretex material itself then take a wax stick to the stitching joints or paint over them with a silicone sealant.
I've never found a goretex jacket that when it finally starts leaking is not doing so around a seam. They either leak from there from day one as they were designed badly or start to leak eventually around the joints which get stretched the most during usage.
What helps immensely is to use an appropriate water proofing spray just on the tops of the shoulders and very top of the neck. I have found that this stops the vast bul of the rain water from getting under the first fabric layer in the first instance, the under layer leaks are always in the shoulder, neck area also and it leaves the fabric still able to breath as it should.
If you can actually get to the goretex material itself then take a wax stick to the stitching joints or paint over them with a silicone sealant.
I have a £99 North Face, "Hyvent" (I can't believe it's not Goretex) jacket. It's just an outer layer which I think is better, as I can vary the fleece/jumper/work clothes underneath depending on what time of year it is.
I used it up Ben Nevis in the pissing rain, followed by snow, followed by more rain and it was completely waterproof.
Every day I do 1-2 hours going through the fields, woods, up steep embankments etc. with the dog (he's a big lad so needs a decent walk). It's no tears as of yet but I do get the odd snag and the dog jumps on me when we piss around.
I have used it on the motorcycle when my waterproofs got shredded by the wind and I was stuck. It kept me waterproof at mostly illegal speeds for about 4 hours or so, which is something I did not expect.
I have never looked after it, but that's 3 years now. Goretex is still my go to, but as a country boy Hyvent is all I've ever needed and it's much cheaper, I'd just buy the same again even if it failed tomorrow.
I used it up Ben Nevis in the pissing rain, followed by snow, followed by more rain and it was completely waterproof.
Every day I do 1-2 hours going through the fields, woods, up steep embankments etc. with the dog (he's a big lad so needs a decent walk). It's no tears as of yet but I do get the odd snag and the dog jumps on me when we piss around.
I have used it on the motorcycle when my waterproofs got shredded by the wind and I was stuck. It kept me waterproof at mostly illegal speeds for about 4 hours or so, which is something I did not expect.
I have never looked after it, but that's 3 years now. Goretex is still my go to, but as a country boy Hyvent is all I've ever needed and it's much cheaper, I'd just buy the same again even if it failed tomorrow.
I'm ex-MR and have that same jacket. I bought it with my own money as the event stuff we were issued with was terrible.
The MR kongur is a reasonable jacket but I wouldn't say it is either well made or worth the money. Mine has a failed zip and a seam is coming away and it didn't get a lot of hammer.
ALso for running you will cook in it.
TBH there are no water-proof jackets that are suitable for high metabolic load sports so you end up with them open to keep cool and thus get wet. Your best bet is to buy a base layer that maintains body warmth when wet and run / cycle and accept the fact that you will get wet. Pair this with a small water-proof running sack containing a spare top and cheap non breathable waterproof shell for when you stop. Or a one man bothy if you're doing a lot of miles and you're on your own.
The whole breath-ability thing is a nonsense and only works under lab conditions with the DWR coating intact. Most goretex jackets lose there DWR within a few months of ownership and thus lose most of their breathability.
To give you an idea, most of used to wear two 'water-proof' jackets at a time when out searching for a day in torrential rain. If the terrain was steep at rest breaks we'd swap our base layer for a dry one as the current one would have been soaked in sweat (or the the rain would have come in through the zips / neck if only wearing one jacket.
Oh and for Mountain Equipment gear, visit Magic Mountain in the peaks for factory seconds / end of line stuff and save yourself a fortune. That's if it's still there - it's been a while.
HTH.
The MR kongur is a reasonable jacket but I wouldn't say it is either well made or worth the money. Mine has a failed zip and a seam is coming away and it didn't get a lot of hammer.
ALso for running you will cook in it.
TBH there are no water-proof jackets that are suitable for high metabolic load sports so you end up with them open to keep cool and thus get wet. Your best bet is to buy a base layer that maintains body warmth when wet and run / cycle and accept the fact that you will get wet. Pair this with a small water-proof running sack containing a spare top and cheap non breathable waterproof shell for when you stop. Or a one man bothy if you're doing a lot of miles and you're on your own.
The whole breath-ability thing is a nonsense and only works under lab conditions with the DWR coating intact. Most goretex jackets lose there DWR within a few months of ownership and thus lose most of their breathability.
To give you an idea, most of used to wear two 'water-proof' jackets at a time when out searching for a day in torrential rain. If the terrain was steep at rest breaks we'd swap our base layer for a dry one as the current one would have been soaked in sweat (or the the rain would have come in through the zips / neck if only wearing one jacket.
Oh and for Mountain Equipment gear, visit Magic Mountain in the peaks for factory seconds / end of line stuff and save yourself a fortune. That's if it's still there - it's been a while.
HTH.
Gore Tex Paclite has proved durable and effective for me. Very much a superlight outer shell jacket but as a cycle commuter that's exactly what I need, I layer underneath according to temperature.
Gore Tex Wndstopper is water resistant for about 30 mins, then it leaks through the seams. My Paclite jacket has taped seams so you get wet from sweat and excersion rather than water ingress.
Hope this helps.
Gore Tex Wndstopper is water resistant for about 30 mins, then it leaks through the seams. My Paclite jacket has taped seams so you get wet from sweat and excersion rather than water ingress.
Hope this helps.
popeyewhite said:
You're going to walk/run in a £480 Mountain jacket like the one linked? Do you really run?
If you do then I'd suggest two jackets - one for running, t'other for walking. If you want a crossover jacket get a mid range gore (or whatever) NF with full pit zips. Light but lined. No jacket I've ever had has kept me, Goretex or equivalent brand, completely dry whilst being effectively breathable for fast mountain walks/runs. If you want totally watertight buy a festival poncho from Ebay (£8). That and a bin bag are the only things that really work...but then they're not breathable... .
Being honest, I walk up and jog some sections on the way down, when no-ones looking. If you do then I'd suggest two jackets - one for running, t'other for walking. If you want a crossover jacket get a mid range gore (or whatever) NF with full pit zips. Light but lined. No jacket I've ever had has kept me, Goretex or equivalent brand, completely dry whilst being effectively breathable for fast mountain walks/runs. If you want totally watertight buy a festival poncho from Ebay (£8). That and a bin bag are the only things that really work...but then they're not breathable... .
But a second jacket for going up the local hill does sound like a decent idea. - The route I take is 5.5km with 300m of ascent over 2km. ususally takes about 50min. So I guess I don't need a full blown jacket for that. Thanks for the advice.I could have been clearer in my first post, I'm looking for a mountain jacket rather than something I can run in. I want something that will offer protection from heavy and driving rain. I'm also looking for something that will be durable as I tend to use my existing coat for work - I spend a lot time on site and I don't get a choice when it comes to weather. Even if it's widdling down I still have to go and this will likely involve standing in it for at least an hour.
Edited by Zombie on Monday 11th January 13:21
Topbox said:
I'm a big fan of my me Changabang for walking and mountaineering, but I wouldn't run up a fell in it. I think you need to do more research into goretex. Goretex isn't all the same. There are different types. The Changabang jacket will keep virtually all of the wind off you and be extremely waterproof, but it's not magic. If you run up a hill in it, it won't let all of your sweat pass through it. You'd need a more breathable jacket maybe like the Firefox? http://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/firefox-jacket... However this will be less wind and waterproof because it's made of a lighter goretex.
I've never rather eVent or the north face equiv.
Stick with a decent goretex jacket and maybe get two of last seasons? One for running in and one for walking in?
Ok, thanks I'll have a look at the Changabang.I've never rather eVent or the north face equiv.
Stick with a decent goretex jacket and maybe get two of last seasons? One for running in and one for walking in?
I've got a ME Kongur, but the none MRT version (it is entirely red, rather than Red Black) for about 3/4 years now.
Best Gore-Tex jacket I've ever owned, and easily outlasted 2 of my OH's Berghaus & Jack Wolfskins jackets. We do some fairly hard trekking 2/3 times a year (Wales/Peak/Scotland) it is also used everyday for dog walking duties, so gets all kinds of mud/filth and weather thrown at it.
Maintenance is the key and keeping up on the cleaning and re-water proofing regime pays dividends on it. It has just started to let water seep in at the bottom of the arm, near the cuff but that's not bad going for probably 2500+ hours in it. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.
Best Gore-Tex jacket I've ever owned, and easily outlasted 2 of my OH's Berghaus & Jack Wolfskins jackets. We do some fairly hard trekking 2/3 times a year (Wales/Peak/Scotland) it is also used everyday for dog walking duties, so gets all kinds of mud/filth and weather thrown at it.
Maintenance is the key and keeping up on the cleaning and re-water proofing regime pays dividends on it. It has just started to let water seep in at the bottom of the arm, near the cuff but that's not bad going for probably 2500+ hours in it. I'd buy another one in a heartbeat.
DonkeyApple said:
Something I learned about goretex from years of standing in a field in heavy rain is that the fabric is a phenomenal thing and once you understand what type suits your needs it's truly amazing. However, the 5 year old Asian children who stitch the different pieces together to make the coat are the weak link.
I've never found a goretex jacket that when it finally starts leaking is not doing so around a seam. They either leak from there from day one as they were designed badly or start to leak eventually around the joints which get stretched the most during usage.
What helps immensely is to use an appropriate water proofing spray just on the tops of the shoulders and very top of the neck. I have found that this stops the vast bul of the rain water from getting under the first fabric layer in the first instance, the under layer leaks are always in the shoulder, neck area also and it leaves the fabric still able to breath as it should.
If you can actually get to the goretex material itself then take a wax stick to the stitching joints or paint over them with a silicone sealant.
I carry a lot of photographic gear with me when I'm out for a decent walk so the neck and shoulds take a bit of battering from my rucksack harness.I've never found a goretex jacket that when it finally starts leaking is not doing so around a seam. They either leak from there from day one as they were designed badly or start to leak eventually around the joints which get stretched the most during usage.
What helps immensely is to use an appropriate water proofing spray just on the tops of the shoulders and very top of the neck. I have found that this stops the vast bul of the rain water from getting under the first fabric layer in the first instance, the under layer leaks are always in the shoulder, neck area also and it leaves the fabric still able to breath as it should.
If you can actually get to the goretex material itself then take a wax stick to the stitching joints or paint over them with a silicone sealant.
Thanks for the tips - I'm not the best at maintaining my gear
Prof Prolapse said:
I have a £99 North Face, "Hyvent" (I can't believe it's not Goretex) jacket. It's just an outer layer which I think is better, as I can vary the fleece/jumper/work clothes underneath depending on what time of year it is.
I used it up Ben Nevis in the pissing rain, followed by snow, followed by more rain and it was completely waterproof.
Every day I do 1-2 hours going through the fields, woods, up steep embankments etc. with the dog (he's a big lad so needs a decent walk). It's no tears as of yet but I do get the odd snag and the dog jumps on me when we piss around.
I have used it on the motorcycle when my waterproofs got shredded by the wind and I was stuck. It kept me waterproof at mostly illegal speeds for about 4 hours or so, which is something I did not expect.
I have never looked after it, but that's 3 years now. Goretex is still my go to, but as a country boy Hyvent is all I've ever needed and it's much cheaper, I'd just buy the same again even if it failed tomorrow.
I've also got a TNF Hyvent jacket - A great big thing filled with goose down. I'm actually quite impressed with the Hyvent but it does feel rather clammy and as it's too warm, I've never used it in the Hills. It's too bloody heavy to lug up there in the first place.I used it up Ben Nevis in the pissing rain, followed by snow, followed by more rain and it was completely waterproof.
Every day I do 1-2 hours going through the fields, woods, up steep embankments etc. with the dog (he's a big lad so needs a decent walk). It's no tears as of yet but I do get the odd snag and the dog jumps on me when we piss around.
I have used it on the motorcycle when my waterproofs got shredded by the wind and I was stuck. It kept me waterproof at mostly illegal speeds for about 4 hours or so, which is something I did not expect.
I have never looked after it, but that's 3 years now. Goretex is still my go to, but as a country boy Hyvent is all I've ever needed and it's much cheaper, I'd just buy the same again even if it failed tomorrow.
rhinochopig said:
I'm ex-MR and have that same jacket. I bought it with my own money as the event stuff we were issued with was terrible.
The MR kongur is a reasonable jacket but I wouldn't say it is either well made or worth the money. Mine has a failed zip and a seam is coming away and it didn't get a lot of hammer.
ALso for running you will cook in it.
TBH there are no water-proof jackets that are suitable for high metabolic load sports so you end up with them open to keep cool and thus get wet. Your best bet is to buy a base layer that maintains body warmth when wet and run / cycle and accept the fact that you will get wet. Pair this with a small water-proof running sack containing a spare top and cheap non breathable waterproof shell for when you stop. Or a one man bothy if you're doing a lot of miles and you're on your own.
The whole breath-ability thing is a nonsense and only works under lab conditions with the DWR coating intact. Most goretex jackets lose there DWR within a few months of ownership and thus lose most of their breathability.
To give you an idea, most of used to wear two 'water-proof' jackets at a time when out searching for a day in torrential rain. If the terrain was steep at rest breaks we'd swap our base layer for a dry one as the current one would have been soaked in sweat (or the the rain would have come in through the zips / neck if only wearing one jacket.
Oh and for Mountain Equipment gear, visit Magic Mountain in the peaks for factory seconds / end of line stuff and save yourself a fortune. That's if it's still there - it's been a while.
HTH.
It does and that's usefull to know, thanks for your input.The MR kongur is a reasonable jacket but I wouldn't say it is either well made or worth the money. Mine has a failed zip and a seam is coming away and it didn't get a lot of hammer.
ALso for running you will cook in it.
TBH there are no water-proof jackets that are suitable for high metabolic load sports so you end up with them open to keep cool and thus get wet. Your best bet is to buy a base layer that maintains body warmth when wet and run / cycle and accept the fact that you will get wet. Pair this with a small water-proof running sack containing a spare top and cheap non breathable waterproof shell for when you stop. Or a one man bothy if you're doing a lot of miles and you're on your own.
The whole breath-ability thing is a nonsense and only works under lab conditions with the DWR coating intact. Most goretex jackets lose there DWR within a few months of ownership and thus lose most of their breathability.
To give you an idea, most of used to wear two 'water-proof' jackets at a time when out searching for a day in torrential rain. If the terrain was steep at rest breaks we'd swap our base layer for a dry one as the current one would have been soaked in sweat (or the the rain would have come in through the zips / neck if only wearing one jacket.
Oh and for Mountain Equipment gear, visit Magic Mountain in the peaks for factory seconds / end of line stuff and save yourself a fortune. That's if it's still there - it's been a while.
HTH.
Zombie said:
I could have been clearer in my first post, I'm looking for a mountain jacket rather than something I can run in. I want something that will offer protection from heavy and driving rain. I'm also looking for something that will be durable as I tend to use my existing coat for work - I spend a lot time on site and I don't get a choice when it comes to weather. Even if it's widdling down I still have to go and this will likely involve standing in it for at least an hour.
In that case, I would certainly recommend the Keela Munro. I use it year round for work as it's great for standing around, the trade off being a bit warmer than some other jackets. While is a warm jacket, and has a very light lining inside - this is actually a bonus for warm, wet days in my mind. I always find unlined jackets like the Kongur uncomfortable with just a short sleeved base layer, but because it is lined you can wear it with just a T. I once wore it like a cape with nothing underneath, temperature was in the mid 20's but I needed a shell to protect me while bashing through dense pine trees. It was quite comfortable considering!It is also cheap - you can get them for £135 online. For the price of a Kongur you could pick up a Munro, and and a lighter jacket. They are quite large, so check sizes carefully. The only jacket I found that beat it for standing about in crap conditions was an old Slioch MR jacket - but that was like wearing a wooden shed and crap for actually walking anywhere.
http://www.walkoutdoors.com/keela-mens-munro-jacke...
Edited by clunkbox on Monday 11th January 13:51
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