Legal advice on charges

[Derek Smith]

I received an invoice after money was taken from my credit card.

I took out an account with a website host. On 8 January I received notification of the charge.

Hello,

Unfortunately after this has been processed it is non refundable. As per our terms and conditions below

Renewals. Services purchased for a set period (for example, three years) will be automatically renewed upon the expiry of that period unless you give H******* written notice of your intention to terminate them at least 30 days prior to the expiry of that period. They will be renewed at H*******'s then current rates for such Services.

Thank you for your patience

--
--
Brian K.
H******** Inc.

The charge has increased by 50%.

What are my options.

[Vaud]

What does the contract say with regards to change of costs / notification?

[Gallen]

Don't know for sure, but if paid by direct debit then if you weren't informed of the exact amount of any increase [to a subsequent payment] then you will likely be able to claim under the Direct Debit guarantee. Probably.

That may get you your money back, but potentially would leave the door open to contractual obligations - unless section 10.5 on the H******* agreement is deemed an unfair term of contract - which it may well be, as effectively there could be a 10,000% increase in fees.

Edited by Gallen on Tuesday 12th January 16:16

[Derek Smith]

Vaud said:

What does the contract say with regards to change of costs / notification?

There we have the problem. The contract is not available on the website, there is no notification on the original documentation I received (I've kept the lot) that the contract is renewable only on the same conditions as the original, that once they debit the money they will not refund, that they will not notify me of any increase in charges before they debit the account . . . Do you see what my problem is?

I wanted to renew for just one year. They have provided no service as the contract doesn't start until 23 Jan, yet they are charging me.

The renewal notice came on Xmas eve with four other emails on other matters, all with the same heading. On none were any time limits mentioned, on none were the increases in the charges mentioned, and on none was the refusal to refund once debited mentioned.

I've taken the matter up with the credit card company.

I had one host for over a decade and the relationship is one of trust.

[Derek Smith]

Gallen said:

Don't know for sure, but if paid by direct debit then if you weren't informed of the exact amount of any increase [to a subsequent payment] then you will likely be able to claim under the Direct Debit guarantee. Probably.

That may get you your money back, but potentially would leave the door open to contractual obligations - unless section 10.5 on the H******* agreement is deemed an unfair term of contract - which it may well be, as effectively there could be a 10,000% increase in fees.

Edited by Gallen on Tuesday 12th January 16:16

Thanks for that.

I spoke with an exceptionally helpful chap at the credit card company. I don't give them much business but he could do more. Capital I felt.

He said that they could not promise anything but that they deal with similar matters every day. He asked me when I was notified of the precise charges that would be debited and when I told him once I'd received the invoice, which was not refundable, his tone of voice changed a bit. So I assume there's a clue there and it follows what you suggested.

I was asked if I would accept a one year extension and I agreed, so I assume that's what they will push for, but I regret saying so now. Still, I've said it.

It is a shame that one can't name the company, if only as a warning to others.

Thanks again.

[Gallen]

Derek Smith said:

There we have the problem. The contract is not available on the website

I found the contract for H******* with a quick google search. www.h*******.co.uk/terms

However this is interesting:

http://whatconsumer.co.uk/unfair-contract-terms/ said:

More recently introduced European Regulations clarify further definitions of what constitutes ‘unfair’.

Making the arrangement legally binding on you, but not on the supplier.

Allowing the supplier to retain money in the event that you cancel, but not obliging the supplier to pay compensation in the event that they cancel.

The requirement for you to pay cancellation charges which are disproportionately high.

Allowing the supplier to dissolve the contract on a discretionary basis, without giving you the same right.

Allowing the supplier to cancel the contract without reasonable notice to you.

Automatic contract renewals where you are not given reasonable opportunity to prevent the renewal.

Incorporating legally binding contractual terms without giving you reasonable opportunity to become familiar with them before signing.

Allowing the seller to alter the terms of the contract without a valid reason which is specified in the contract.

Allowing the supplier to determine the price at the time of delivery, or significantly increasing the price without giving you the chance to cancel.

Giving the supplier the right to determine whether the goods you receive are as described or allowing him to interpret contractual terms as he sees fit.

Legally obliging you to fulfil your obligations, while not obliging the supplier to fulfil his.

Allowing the seller to transfer his rights and obligations if it affects any product guarantees you may have with him.

Not allowing or restricting your right to take legal action against him for negligence or breach of contract




For further information, see the regulations themselves:

Read more: http://whatconsumer.co.uk/unfair-contract-terms/#i...

There's a few leads in there to start with.
However best wait for someone who knows exactly what their talking about and who would be better placed to advise on next course of action.



G.

Edited by Gallen on Tuesday 12th January 16:28

[maccboy]

Well, if you google the text you've quoted - from 'Renewals' to 'you give' - there are very few companies that appear that begin with an H. I presume it's the one with 3 vowels - if your H and seven stars is accurate.

[plasticpig]

I nearly go bitten like that with this host company. Luckily I had paid by PayPal so they couldn't auto renew. It does state in their Service Renewal Notifications that they will "attempt to charge your account 15 days prior to your renewal date ".

[caziques]

Chargeback on credit card.

This will force H****** to prove to the credit card company the amount charged was correct - which it looks they may find a problem with.

I would regard it as an unauthorised amount as you were not told of the amount prior to it being slapped on.

It's one reason for using a credit card for things like this.

[Derek Smith]

caziques said:

Chargeback on credit card.

This will force H****** to prove to the credit card company the amount charged was correct - which it looks they may find a problem with.

I would regard it as an unauthorised amount as you were not told of the amount prior to it being slapped on.

It's one reason for using a credit card for things like this.

I've had a credit card for years although late to them. I use them mainly for online due to dispute resolution, but I've never had problems. I'm normally very careful. I awaited the information of the charges. They'd increased, almost doubled, so one can understand their reluctance to tell me before taking the money.

They sent a notification of the renewal date with four other emails, all with all but identical Subject Lines. Almost as if they wanted me to miss it.

The biggest irritation for me is that I fell for it. I've been a bit of a mug. It won't happen again so whatever the outcome I've got something from it.

I've got another website with another hosting company, but it changed hands 3 years ago, going from the UK to the USA, and I was a bit reluctant to risk two with them. There's no comparison with service.

I've been impressed by how helpful my credit card company has been in this and other matters in the past, although this is my first dispute. Capital One.

I've left it in their hands.

Thanks for comments.