trade account - pointless as anyone can use it!

[hedgefinder]

Not sure if this is the correct section to post in and have left out the name of the DIy chain involved, but it is pretty obvious to be honest.....

So yesterday get a call from someone asking for my postal code as they are going to send me something and just wanted to confirm it. So obviously I gave them the postal code, but was busy with a customer and couldnt talk further.
Between customers I give them a call back to ask what is being sent......they then admitted at the time of calling me to being sat in a certain large DIY store placing an order in the kitchen department and had mentioned my name to the sales assistant to test if I had an account with them who then brought up my trade account details and asked them to confirm my postal code to allow them to apply my trade discount to their order!!
To say cheecky fkers would be an understatement. If I had actually been asked to get them trade discount I most likely would have, but to slyly obtain details to allow them to use my account without at least first asking is a very bad show in my opinion.
It also makes a complete mokery of the trade account system of a certain large DIY store. I do not use the account for this type of order anyway as I dont really work at that end of the market very often, but potentially I could have been into my local store, planned a kitchen obtained a trade price for a job I was intending to do for a customer, given the customer my retail pricing only to have the customer go into the store and obtain the same trade price by simply using my account in the same manner!! totally pointless ........ anyone here using one of these accounts and selling on to their customers needs to be aware of this - you may even have had materials sold in store using your account details that you know nothing about!!

[Simpo Two]

Do you know the person? What would annoy me is (1) they used your account without permission (2) they lied when they said they were sending you something. Demand half the saving!

[hedgefinder]

Simpo Two said:

Do you know the person? What would annoy me is (1) they used your account without permission (2) they lied when they said they were sending you something. Demand half the saving!

yes, and those are the exact reasons I am annoyed, as if asked I would likely have allowed them to use it or obtained the discount for them myself.

potentially all any retail customer has to do is sit in their car park, watch who comes out of the trade sales point and take their contact details from their van - bingo...trade discount.

[steveo3002]

could get away with murder in alot of the smaller trade places , grab what you need and say can you put this on mr xyz account and they just do it

[hedgefinder]

steveo3002 said:

could get away with murder in alot of the smaller trade places , grab what you need and say can you put this on mr xyz account and they just do it

this is not a corner shop hardware store this is one of the biggest UK DIY store chains,
who dont seem to understand anything about account security or even the most remote idea of the possibility of password protection.......

[Simpo Two]

I'm not unduly bothered by that; it's the store who's losing money by doing it. And if you had no trade account, you'd be glad you could piggyback on a friend, as it were.

[Sharted]

I thought that tradesmen loved this as they end up with more VAT to claim back?

[Mandat]

Sharted said:

I thought that tradesmen loved this as they end up with more VAT to claim back?

How is that supposed to work? If the trader hasn't purchased anything, then how can they reclaim any VAT that they haven't paid?

[anothernameitist]

Its not too hard to get an accounnt from that DIY chain.

On another note I've not got a trade account at a certain builders merchant usually pay cash, but once got some materilas and the counter guy put it on someones account to give me the discount, I paid cash.

just hope the guy didn't pocket the cash and rip the builder off.

[hedgefinder]

Simpo Two said:

I'm not unduly bothered by that; it's the store who's losing money by doing it. And if you had no trade account, you'd be glad you could piggyback on a friend, as it were.

difference is that I would NEVER do it without asking before using someone elses account.

and I think you are missing a rather important point which I made above about someone in buisness using an account for genuine trade work and then the possibility of their customer simply using their account without permission aftre they hvae done all the leg work etc.

Edited by hedgefinder on Wednesday 13th January 11:47

[Mandat]

anothernameitist said:

Its not too hard to get an accounnt from that DIY chain.

On another note I've not got a trade account at a certain builders merchant usually pay cash, but once got some materilas and the counter guy put it on someones account to give me the discount, I paid cash.

just hope the guy didn't pocket the cash and rip the builder off.

I think that most trade accounts are not necessarily credit accounts, therefore you're not buying with somebody else's money / credit.

[hedgefinder]

Mandat said:

I think that most trade accounts are not necessarily credit accounts, therefore you're not buying with somebody else's money / credit.

BUT, and its a rather large but.. if records are kept by the DIY chain on account activity and a future HMRC investigation highlights several large purchases for cash or by third parties there would be some very serious questions to be answered by the account holder.....

[sideways sid]

hedgefinder said:

BUT, and its a rather large but.. if records are kept by the DIY chain on account activity and a future HMRC investigation highlights several large purchases for cash or by third parties there would be some very serious questions to be answered by the account holder.....

So close your account, explaining your reasons, in writing.

[vanordinaire]

'Trade accounts' with everyday retailers aren't actually real trade accounts, just an other marketing tool to get trade customers who wouldn't normally buy there to use their shop . The OP won't lose anything by this transaction so the only issue is his relationship with the guy who used his name and whether he feels the guy was taking the piss or not.
I've been in a large DIY store (with orange writing) and couldn't find my trade card, the assistant just put the purchase through in someone else's name so I would still get the 'trade discount' and complete the purchase.

[Sharted]

Mandat said:

How is that supposed to work? If the trader hasn't purchased anything, then how can they reclaim any VAT that they haven't paid?

If I'm honest I don't know as I've not really given it any thought.

When I needed a lot of oak flooring I was offered to use a trader's discount, he would be happy as he would be able to claim the VAT.

Hi might have been wrong I suppose.

[Mandat]

Sharted said:

Mandat said:

How is that supposed to work? If the trader hasn't purchased anything, then how can they reclaim any VAT that they haven't paid?

If I'm honest I don't know as I've not really given it any thought.

When I needed a lot of oak flooring I was offered to use a trader's discount, he would be happy as he would be able to claim the VAT.

Hi might have been wrong I suppose.

In your situation, presumably your trader would have been able to claim the VAT, as he would have used your VAT receipt to include in his accounts.

In the OP's situation, there was no collusion between the trader and purchaser. In fact the OP is complaining that the purchaser did not ask him whether the trade account could be used to secure a discount on retail price.

[hedgefinder]

vanordinaire said:

'Trade accounts' with everyday retailers aren't actually real trade accounts, just an other marketing tool to get trade customers who wouldn't normally buy there to use their shop . The OP won't lose anything by this transaction so the only issue is his relationship with the guy who used his name and whether he feels the guy was taking the piss or not.
I've been in a large DIY store (with orange writing) and couldn't find my trade card, the assistant just put the purchase through in someone else's name so I would still get the 'trade discount' and complete the purchase.

although I personally dont use it as such, ( apart from the odd length of timber here or sheet of ply or hardboard here and there - as their free cutting service is in all honesty quite handy if in a rush with limited space!)
I would argue that it is a trade acccount as much as any other trade account is. You are supposed to provide evidence of trade to open an account then on most items you recieve a percentage discount on normal retail prices..... just like any other trade/cash account

I also know of several "traders" who use DIY outlets using their "trade" only departments to buy from and to sell to their own retail customers.

[Mandat]

hedgefinder said:

although I personally dont use it as such, ( apart from the odd length of timber here or sheet of ply or hardboard here and there - as their free cutting service is in all honesty quite handy if in a rush with limited space!)
I would argue that it is a trade acccount as much as any other trade account is. You are supposed to provide evidence of trade to open an account then on most items you recieve a percentage discount on normal retail prices..... just like any other trade/cash account

I also know of several "traders" who use DIY outlets using their "trade" only departments to buy from and to sell to their own retail customers.

As long as the retailers are happy to sell to non genuine traders at trade prices, does it really matter?

In answer to my own question, I suppose that if more of the general public are able to buy at trade prices, it makes it more difficult for traders to add their markup.

[hedgefinder]

Mandat said:

As long as the retailers are happy to sell to non genuine traders at trade prices, does it really matter?

In answer to my own question, I suppose that if more of the general public are able to buy at trade prices, it makes it more difficult for traders to add their markup.

with your own answer you bascially hit the nail on the head and as such its validity as a "trade account " is therefore made null and void and they could possibly be in trouble in some way regarding the advertising of such an account as a "trade" account ..