Inspections when buying privately.
Discussion
What do you chaps do about inspections if you see a car you want to buy privately? Car in question would be a Cayman 2.7, around 2006 with 80,000 miles, full service history.
I'm reasonably savvy and have bought a few Porsches in the past, but all air-cooled. I'd hate to buy it, then take it to my garage where they find loads wrong with it. Unfortunately they don't do mobile inspections.
Many thanks.
I'm reasonably savvy and have bought a few Porsches in the past, but all air-cooled. I'd hate to buy it, then take it to my garage where they find loads wrong with it. Unfortunately they don't do mobile inspections.
Many thanks.
Edited by 993kimbo on Monday 18th January 17:27
It's fairly common and we were happy to. GT One who inspected the car seemed quite used to it. Plan B would be a 111 point check at OPC.
I wouldn't pay the seller, but I'd expect to pay the garage. The seller will get his money when the deal is done. If he's a bit of a tightwad you might need to bug him some petrol/taxi money.
I wouldn't pay the seller, but I'd expect to pay the garage. The seller will get his money when the deal is done. If he's a bit of a tightwad you might need to bug him some petrol/taxi money.
Get the 3.4! It's reasonable to ask the seller to take to your preferred garage, based on that garage being within 60 mins of his front door. Unless the car is already at trade money or below I would make the seller an offer, subject to the inspection not giving rise to any issues. That way you are being completely transparent and you can simply transfer the money if the car gets the green light. Seller won't feel violated if car passes muster only for you THEN to commence negotiations.
Please remember there are no end of Caymans for sale and, rightly or wrongly 80k is enough to put many people off. I would urge, unless said car is very cheap, to look for lower miles. One owner, nice house, lots of toys, then do the above. Hope all is well , pity you can't make the 993 trip!
Please remember there are no end of Caymans for sale and, rightly or wrongly 80k is enough to put many people off. I would urge, unless said car is very cheap, to look for lower miles. One owner, nice house, lots of toys, then do the above. Hope all is well , pity you can't make the 993 trip!
Get the 3.4! It's reasonable to ask the seller to take to your preferred garage, based on that garage being within 60 mins of his front door. Unless the car is already at trade money or below I would make the seller an offer, subject to the inspection not giving rise to any issues. That way you are being completely transparent and you can simply transfer the money if the car gets the green light. Seller won't feel violated if car passes muster only for you THEN to commence negotiations.
Please remember there are no end of Caymans for sale and, rightly or wrongly 80k is enough to put many people off. I would urge, unless said car is very cheap, to look for lower miles. One owner, nice house, lots of toys, then do the above. Hope all is well , pity you can't make the 993 trip!
Please remember there are no end of Caymans for sale and, rightly or wrongly 80k is enough to put many people off. I would urge, unless said car is very cheap, to look for lower miles. One owner, nice house, lots of toys, then do the above. Hope all is well , pity you can't make the 993 trip!
I had mine inspected post purchase, and have to say it was a list of mostly complete b
ks. The car's done 54k miles. I have a motor trade background, and was hoping for some Porsche specific pointers.
" Replace the water pump, as it appears original, and therefore 10 years old " I was quoted £600 by them to replace it. WTF? It's not leaking or noisy, but you want me to give you £600 based on that statement?
"The strut tops are excessively corroded and the struts should be replaced". Surface rust, and no more corroded than my 48k mile Evo, or my 39k mile Ford Connect. There isn't a squeak, rattle, knock or groan from the suspension on any surface.
" The discs are worn below minimum thickness". 28mm when new, 26mm is minimum thickness, mine are 27mm, no visible lip, no corrosion on the inner face, which in itself is unusual. The car pulls up square from any speed and there are no vibrations.
"The wishbone bushes are pulling out of their mountings". On the ramp, that is visibly simply not true.
Based on this litany of apparent horrors, I took the car to an MOT tester, and asked him to look through the list, and then look at the car with a critical eye. After laughing out loud at the inspection sheet, his comment was that nothing on it was worth mentioning, let alone wasting money on repairing or renewing. Certainly the things that were mentioned in the list that might cause an MOT tester to pause for thought were exaggerated, and that he couldn't fail the car on anything inspected.
Admittedly, there were things I took notice of and dealt with, but changing the expansion cap for the latest type and replacing the broken boot badge are hardly deal breakers. To read the rest of the report on mine, you'd be forgiven for thinking it was a virtual scrapper.
This from an Indie of some repute, sadly. However, their post purchase inspection is offered as a free loss leader. I think they should withdraw that service if it means unnecessarily criticising a car in order to generate income. I will say, hand on heart that if the jobs were required, I would have had them done. Fortunately I'm not green enough to provide an income to unscrupulous businesses.
Best of luck with your inspection, in my experience and opinion, unless you're very lucky, it won't paint a realistic picture.
ks. The car's done 54k miles. I have a motor trade background, and was hoping for some Porsche specific pointers." Replace the water pump, as it appears original, and therefore 10 years old " I was quoted £600 by them to replace it. WTF? It's not leaking or noisy, but you want me to give you £600 based on that statement?
"The strut tops are excessively corroded and the struts should be replaced". Surface rust, and no more corroded than my 48k mile Evo, or my 39k mile Ford Connect. There isn't a squeak, rattle, knock or groan from the suspension on any surface.
" The discs are worn below minimum thickness". 28mm when new, 26mm is minimum thickness, mine are 27mm, no visible lip, no corrosion on the inner face, which in itself is unusual. The car pulls up square from any speed and there are no vibrations.
"The wishbone bushes are pulling out of their mountings". On the ramp, that is visibly simply not true.
Based on this litany of apparent horrors, I took the car to an MOT tester, and asked him to look through the list, and then look at the car with a critical eye. After laughing out loud at the inspection sheet, his comment was that nothing on it was worth mentioning, let alone wasting money on repairing or renewing. Certainly the things that were mentioned in the list that might cause an MOT tester to pause for thought were exaggerated, and that he couldn't fail the car on anything inspected.
Admittedly, there were things I took notice of and dealt with, but changing the expansion cap for the latest type and replacing the broken boot badge are hardly deal breakers. To read the rest of the report on mine, you'd be forgiven for thinking it was a virtual scrapper.
This from an Indie of some repute, sadly. However, their post purchase inspection is offered as a free loss leader. I think they should withdraw that service if it means unnecessarily criticising a car in order to generate income. I will say, hand on heart that if the jobs were required, I would have had them done. Fortunately I'm not green enough to provide an income to unscrupulous businesses.
Best of luck with your inspection, in my experience and opinion, unless you're very lucky, it won't paint a realistic picture.
I can see where you're coming from Heavho - but perhaps the fact you were 'post-purchase' and the Indy knew the car was yours already, they were more likely to get you to spend your money on it...
I think pre-purchase inspections are extremely sensible when you're buying any Porsche privately, and for some models (thinking 986, 987, 996, 997.1) you could say critical. I am not convinced however that an OPC administered 111 point check is a good barometer of a car's condition. If it were me (and depending on the value of the vehicle in question) I'd be on the phone to Peter Morgan, or an Indy I trust.
Even then tho' they may not be able to undertake a borescope of the cylinders - which some might say is the most important area to look at on the more 'troubled' engines. But I guess some kind of inspection is better than none at all when you're spending a sizeable sum.
I think pre-purchase inspections are extremely sensible when you're buying any Porsche privately, and for some models (thinking 986, 987, 996, 997.1) you could say critical. I am not convinced however that an OPC administered 111 point check is a good barometer of a car's condition. If it were me (and depending on the value of the vehicle in question) I'd be on the phone to Peter Morgan, or an Indy I trust.
Even then tho' they may not be able to undertake a borescope of the cylinders - which some might say is the most important area to look at on the more 'troubled' engines. But I guess some kind of inspection is better than none at all when you're spending a sizeable sum.
Heaveho said:
I had mine inspected post purchase, and have to say it was a list of mostly complete bks. The car's done 54k miles. I have a motor trade background, and was hoping for some Porsche specific pointers.
" Replace the water pump, as it appears original, and therefore 10 years old " I was quoted £600 by them to replace it. WTF? It's not leaking or noisy, but you want me to give you £600 based on that statement?
"The strut tops are excessively corroded and the struts should be replaced". Surface rust, and no more corroded than my 48k mile Evo, or my 39k mile Ford Connect. There isn't a squeak, rattle, knock or groan from the suspension on any surface.
" The discs are worn below minimum thickness". 28mm when new, 26mm is minimum thickness, mine are 27mm, no visible lip, no corrosion on the inner face, which in itself is unusual. The car pulls up square from any speed and there are no vibrations.
"The wishbone bushes are pulling out of their mountings". On the ramp, that is visibly simply not true.
Based on this litany of apparent horrors, I took the car to an MOT tester, and asked him to look through the list, and then look at the car with a critical eye. After laughing out loud at the inspection sheet, his comment was that nothing on it was worth mentioning, let alone wasting money on repairing or renewing. Certainly the things that were mentioned in the list that might cause an MOT tester to pause for thought were exaggerated, and that he couldn't fail the car on anything inspected.
Admittedly, there were things I took notice of and dealt with, but changing the expansion cap for the latest type and replacing the broken boot badge are hardly deal breakers. To read the rest of the report on mine, you'd be forgiven for thinking it was a virtual scrapper.
This from an Indie of some repute, sadly. However, their post purchase inspection is offered as a free loss leader. I think they should withdraw that service if it means unnecessarily criticising a car in order to generate income. I will say, hand on heart that if the jobs were required, I would have had them done. Fortunately I'm not green enough to provide an income to unscrupulous businesses.
Best of luck with your inspection, in my experience and opinion, unless you're very lucky, it won't paint a realistic picture.
I had a similar experience with a reputable Indy garage recommending a ton of work that my normal trusted place said simply wasn't needed. Did its name begin with G by any chance? ks. The car's done 54k miles. I have a motor trade background, and was hoping for some Porsche specific pointers." Replace the water pump, as it appears original, and therefore 10 years old " I was quoted £600 by them to replace it. WTF? It's not leaking or noisy, but you want me to give you £600 based on that statement?
"The strut tops are excessively corroded and the struts should be replaced". Surface rust, and no more corroded than my 48k mile Evo, or my 39k mile Ford Connect. There isn't a squeak, rattle, knock or groan from the suspension on any surface.
" The discs are worn below minimum thickness". 28mm when new, 26mm is minimum thickness, mine are 27mm, no visible lip, no corrosion on the inner face, which in itself is unusual. The car pulls up square from any speed and there are no vibrations.
"The wishbone bushes are pulling out of their mountings". On the ramp, that is visibly simply not true.
Based on this litany of apparent horrors, I took the car to an MOT tester, and asked him to look through the list, and then look at the car with a critical eye. After laughing out loud at the inspection sheet, his comment was that nothing on it was worth mentioning, let alone wasting money on repairing or renewing. Certainly the things that were mentioned in the list that might cause an MOT tester to pause for thought were exaggerated, and that he couldn't fail the car on anything inspected.
Admittedly, there were things I took notice of and dealt with, but changing the expansion cap for the latest type and replacing the broken boot badge are hardly deal breakers. To read the rest of the report on mine, you'd be forgiven for thinking it was a virtual scrapper.
This from an Indie of some repute, sadly. However, their post purchase inspection is offered as a free loss leader. I think they should withdraw that service if it means unnecessarily criticising a car in order to generate income. I will say, hand on heart that if the jobs were required, I would have had them done. Fortunately I'm not green enough to provide an income to unscrupulous businesses.
Best of luck with your inspection, in my experience and opinion, unless you're very lucky, it won't paint a realistic picture.
jakesmith said:
I had a similar experience with a reputable Indy garage recommending a ton of work that my normal trusted place said simply wasn't needed. Did its name begin with G by any chance?
Hi, no it wasn't the same place......the people were very pleasant, so I was extremely disappointed when I realised that they had simply used the opportunity to try to take advantage. I genuinely didn't want to believe that they had tried to do so. It depends, doesn't it.
It is a 10 year old mass produced car with 80k miles on it. There will be some things that warrant some attention, and other components reaching the end of their useful life. With Porsches there *can* be a mildly displaced attitude amongst some that everything has to be perfect, that these cars are so "special" that they need to be immaculate in every regard before you buy one and in a 100% mechanical condition similar to the space shuttle being checked, pre-flight, for launch.
On the other hand, an inspection might highlight a real humdinger of an issue that makes you very glad you had one performed and spent the money before buying the car.
I always think it is very useful to take a half knowledgeable friend that has owned the type of car you are buying. That kind of experience can be invaluable in terms of "oh, mine did this and will need doing soon, it cost "£X" and was a pain".
So, any inspection could be a real lifesaver by highlighting bodged accident repairs or serious mechanical problems, or it could be a silly list of "replace all the tyres, brakes, suspension, clutch, and the windscreen wipers only have 17% wear left".
I had to laugh at the waterpump story, I had something similar with my 996 with the same cost. I did it myself for buttons, as this is not a hard job and when you are holding the part you will understand it is not a "high precision German engineered Porsche critical component that requires a qualified engineer to fit". It is a bit of plate with a shaft in it, and could be from a Nissan Micra or Ford Mondeo.
It is a 10 year old mass produced car with 80k miles on it. There will be some things that warrant some attention, and other components reaching the end of their useful life. With Porsches there *can* be a mildly displaced attitude amongst some that everything has to be perfect, that these cars are so "special" that they need to be immaculate in every regard before you buy one and in a 100% mechanical condition similar to the space shuttle being checked, pre-flight, for launch.
On the other hand, an inspection might highlight a real humdinger of an issue that makes you very glad you had one performed and spent the money before buying the car.
I always think it is very useful to take a half knowledgeable friend that has owned the type of car you are buying. That kind of experience can be invaluable in terms of "oh, mine did this and will need doing soon, it cost "£X" and was a pain".
So, any inspection could be a real lifesaver by highlighting bodged accident repairs or serious mechanical problems, or it could be a silly list of "replace all the tyres, brakes, suspension, clutch, and the windscreen wipers only have 17% wear left".
I had to laugh at the waterpump story, I had something similar with my 996 with the same cost. I did it myself for buttons, as this is not a hard job and when you are holding the part you will understand it is not a "high precision German engineered Porsche critical component that requires a qualified engineer to fit". It is a bit of plate with a shaft in it, and could be from a Nissan Micra or Ford Mondeo.
Edited by LotusAlfaV6bloke on Tuesday 19th January 08:57
993kimbo said:
Did you view the car first and then leave some sort of deposit before the seller agreed to do this?
Yes I viewed the car first but didn't leave a deposit. The car was for sale privately and the seller agreed to give me first refusal subject to the results of the inspection. I suppose I took a risk in paying for an inspection without having paid a deposit but I trusted the seller (there's not always much trust when used cars are involved!). We both saw the benefits of having the vehicle inspected as it then opened up the option to purchase an extended Porsche warranty at either the sellers or buyers expense.I hope that your proposed purchase goes well.
For what its worth JZM did an inspection on mine and pulled up three issues that were easily fixed but would have cost me nearly £2-3k had I not been aware of them beforehand.
For me it was essential being new to the make and not having the faintest idea what to look for on the technical side. Even the dealer was pleasantly surprised that the report just covered the points that actually needed doing.
For me it was essential being new to the make and not having the faintest idea what to look for on the technical side. Even the dealer was pleasantly surprised that the report just covered the points that actually needed doing.
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