Selling a business
Author
Discussion

littleredrooster

Original Poster:

6,413 posts

227 months

Thursday 21st January 2016
quotequote all
A good friend of mine has a business which is purely Internet-based, c.£300k turnover, £70k profit, supports 3 full-time employees and has massive scope for expansion into Europe (only sells in the UK presently).

It has a 12-year track record but he wants to retire. Where is the best place to advertise this and any guesses about how much it may be worth?

DSLiverpool

16,536 posts

233 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
littleredrooster said:
A good friend of mine has a business which is purely Internet-based, c.£300k turnover, £70k profit, supports 3 full-time employees and has massive scope for expansion into Europe (only sells in the UK presently).

It has a 12-year track record but he wants to retire. Where is the best place to advertise this and any guesses about how much it may be worth?
£70k net net ie after all overheads AND his salary? if so he has a gold mine. If its £70k gross its less so but try an advert in the Business For Sale online site

Thurbs

2,782 posts

253 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
It is only a gold mine if it can scale and it is a real profit figure and there is a team in place to scale it and it is not easily copied and it has some protection and...

Valuing it is hard given there are so many unknowns...


Europa1

10,923 posts

219 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
On the value, get your mate to do some googling as to what sort of multiples those sorts of businesses command on a sale.

loafer123

16,756 posts

246 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all

As DSLiverpool implies, I guess this is a 23% owners margin and that no salary is drawn.

The 1x turnover giving 4.3x EBITDA seems a little strong to me. Whilst he has been trading for 12 years, it is likely the business model and a similar amount of goodwill can be built up over less than the value and time of 4 years of EBITDA, or at least that is how I would look at it.

What sector? Premises? Skills required?

DSLiverpool

16,536 posts

233 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
coyft said:
If it's all been fairly constant for the last few years I'd say it's worth about £300k, but there are so many variables.
You must be a business sales agent biggrin

In all seriousness OP its so tiny that it makes sense to sell it to a rival who can run it in parallel or absorb it saving circa £50k in staff, premises etc.

Tell him to get notification to his competitors initially anonymously.

trickywoo

14,264 posts

261 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
Is there anything special about it that one or more of the current employees couldn't just set up themselves doing the same thing?

littleredrooster

Original Poster:

6,413 posts

227 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
DSLiverpool said:
£70k net net ie after all overheads AND his salary? if so he has a gold mine. If its £70k gross its less so but try an advert in the Business For Sale online site
70k before salaries, I believe.

loafer123 said:
What sector? Premises? Skills required?
Consumer goods, niche (-ish). Warehouse, no retail, a little market knowledge required, but mostly stable with established suppliers and own Brand Name on goods. Other than that, how to wrap delicate things for posting!

trickywoo said:
Is there anything special about it that one or more of the current employees couldn't just set up themselves doing the same thing?
Probably nothing, except that the current ones have no real business acumen and tend to follow rather than lead. One has been there since the start and still doesn't know who the suppliers are, how to reorder, how to manage stock levels etc. Lovely lad, though!

trickywoo

14,264 posts

261 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
littleredrooster said:
Stuff
I'm no expert but based on your update I'd have thought the best sale for everyone would be a staff buyout.

I can't see it being worth more to an outsider than those already working there so that is likely to generate the best price, assuming the staff can afford it.

T5XARV

600 posts

165 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
70k before salaries x 4 ?
I can see why he wants to sell.

littleredrooster

Original Poster:

6,413 posts

227 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
T5XARV said:
70k before salaries x 4 ?
I can see why he wants to sell.
Hmm...yes - let me revisit that one, doesn't make sense now I think about it! He makes a nice living out of it, so 70k must be after 3x employee salaries, but before his drawings. I'll double check at the weekend.

T5XARV

600 posts

165 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
I thought as much.

Splats

625 posts

193 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
Assuming it's a limited company I'd expect the £70k will be profit after the 3 full-time members of staff have been paid and the owner will take his share in dividends. How important is the owner to the running of the business. Can it function well without him for extended periods or does he need to be there daily to keep the cogs turning?

Zoon

7,305 posts

152 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
I'll buy him out if the figures are post salaries.

loafer123

16,756 posts

246 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all

I had a chat about this with my wife, who owns an internet retailer.

Our conclusion, following the debate, was that if the £70k is before owners return, and assuming a full time manager is required, then knock off the cost of that manager at, say, £35k and value the remaining EBITDA at 5x (i.e. 20% pa return for risk capital), giving £150k.

Where are they based, as that would affect things?


DSLiverpool

16,536 posts

233 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
loafer123 said:
I had a chat about this with my wife, who owns an internet retailer.

Our conclusion, following the debate, was that if the £70k is before owners return, and assuming a full time manager is required, then knock off the cost of that manager at, say, £35k and value the remaining EBITDA at 5x (i.e. 20% pa return for risk capital), giving £150k.

Where are they based, as that would affect things?
Without knowing the items sold you cant make any guess as the barrier to entry is so low on the net that your £150k buys you a (probably outdated) website and an Amazon & eBay & NotHS accounts. All easy obtainable in short time.
The value of this company is in the supply chain and I assume to give such a high gross margin its on favourable terms and very specialised. (I realise the OP says not but to get that return on say china mugs is not going to happen)

loafer123

16,756 posts

246 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
DSLiverpool said:
loafer123 said:
I had a chat about this with my wife, who owns an internet retailer.

Our conclusion, following the debate, was that if the £70k is before owners return, and assuming a full time manager is required, then knock off the cost of that manager at, say, £35k and value the remaining EBITDA at 5x (i.e. 20% pa return for risk capital), giving £150k.

Where are they based, as that would affect things?
Without knowing the items sold you cant make any guess as the barrier to entry is so low on the net that your £150k buys you a (probably outdated) website and an Amazon & eBay & NotHS accounts. All easy obtainable in short time.
The value of this company is in the supply chain and I assume to give such a high gross margin its on favourable terms and very specialised. (I realise the OP says not but to get that return on say china mugs is not going to happen)
True, but the valuation approach seems sensible, it is just the relative risk and return on the EBITDA after managers salary which, as you say, depends on lots of factors.

littleredrooster

Original Poster:

6,413 posts

227 months

Friday 22nd January 2016
quotequote all
Zoon said:
I'll buy him out if the figures are post salaries.
If you are serious, PM me.

loafer123 said:
Where are they based, as that would affect things?
Oop North. Cheap overheads, but could potentially be operated anywhere if needed.

...and in reply to whoever asked about owners hours of work - he currently does <30 hours/week at the warehouse and however many are needed at home sorting out queries. There is no current website for direct sales (which I think is a tragedy) as it is still 'under construction' by an outsourced company, and all sales are via Ebay or Amazon with resultant fees.