ECU Guru - WTF??!
Discussion
http://ecu.guru/
Company purporting to offer ECU 'reset' services for assorted Porsche. Isn't this illegal??!
From the blurb on the About page it looks like they're saying this service is primarily for owners who've had new engines, so they can have the ECU wiped. But surely this is open to complete ABUSE??!
I quote:
"...despite a car getting a shiny new and probably more robust engine, its recorded rev range data that belongs with the old engine would remain recorded in the ECU, and it would be wrong to leave it there because it is no longer relevant. This can affect greatly the interest from potential buyers and as a result can badly affect the value of the car. We can reset the rev range and time data to zero to suit the new engine and maximise the value, should you decide to sell."
Worried for obvious reasons. Or Am I being naive in thinking this doesn't already go on?
Company purporting to offer ECU 'reset' services for assorted Porsche. Isn't this illegal??!
From the blurb on the About page it looks like they're saying this service is primarily for owners who've had new engines, so they can have the ECU wiped. But surely this is open to complete ABUSE??!
I quote:
"...despite a car getting a shiny new and probably more robust engine, its recorded rev range data that belongs with the old engine would remain recorded in the ECU, and it would be wrong to leave it there because it is no longer relevant. This can affect greatly the interest from potential buyers and as a result can badly affect the value of the car. We can reset the rev range and time data to zero to suit the new engine and maximise the value, should you decide to sell."
Worried for obvious reasons. Or Am I being naive in thinking this doesn't already go on?
Edited by Fl0pp3r on Friday 29th January 17:51
As i understand it its legal to offer the service but illegal to use it for finacial gain , if you had it done and told a potential customer then thats fine , if you dont then its illegal.
Last study about clocking i saw , although several years ago , quoted one third of the cars on the road have been clocked , whether true or not theres certainly a lot of clocked cars out there unfortunatly and its often difficult to tell even with testers.
It was a lot easier years ago before every thing became software based .. but the old ways are the best , what condition is the interior of the car like , carpets,steering wheel etc and how does it drive.I think most of us would have a rough idear if the milage on a car was a true reflection of the actual car.
Last study about clocking i saw , although several years ago , quoted one third of the cars on the road have been clocked , whether true or not theres certainly a lot of clocked cars out there unfortunatly and its often difficult to tell even with testers.
It was a lot easier years ago before every thing became software based .. but the old ways are the best , what condition is the interior of the car like , carpets,steering wheel etc and how does it drive.I think most of us would have a rough idear if the milage on a car was a true reflection of the actual car.
You'd be surprised.
In the mid-80's I had a Ford Orion company car for 15 months from new (I know, I know) & put ~90,000 miles on it (I really should have got some sort of endurance award for that!). When I left the car was clocked back to 14,000 miles by the boss of the company & sold back to the supplying dealer who accepted it back without a murmur. I did look after it & it didn't really show any use inside or out. I always wondered how it fared during the following 5 years of its life. It never even had a clutch when I had it.
In the mid-80's I had a Ford Orion company car for 15 months from new (I know, I know) & put ~90,000 miles on it (I really should have got some sort of endurance award for that!). When I left the car was clocked back to 14,000 miles by the boss of the company & sold back to the supplying dealer who accepted it back without a murmur. I did look after it & it didn't really show any use inside or out. I always wondered how it fared during the following 5 years of its life. It never even had a clutch when I had it.
Demort said:
As i understand it its legal to offer the service but illegal to use it for finacial gain , if you had it done and told a potential customer then thats fine , if you dont then its illegal.
like i say....more holes than a swiss cheese. There's a lot of scope for ECU's being clocked for reasons OTHER than replacement engines, and it'll be unsuspecting buyers getting caught out if the engines in question go on to suffer premature failure. This is not a good development.
Demort said:
.. but the old ways are the best , what condition is the interior of the car like , carpets,steering wheel etc and how does it drive.I think most of us would have a rough idear if the milage on a car was a true reflection of the actual car.
And service history. If a car is going to be clocked, it will have to have that chunk of the service history and MoTs thrown away or "missing".I can tell that my 58-plate car has been a daily driver for all the previous owners and has understandably clocked up 61,000 miles in 7 years or so. It baffles me how many early 997s are for sale with sub 30k miles on the clock! I understand 911s are often 3rd cars or weekend toys, but surely most are driven every day?!
I also suspect this practice is more widespread than we'd all like to believe.
WindyM said:
And service history. If a car is going to be clocked, it will have to have that chunk of the service history and MoTs thrown away or "missing".
I can tell that my 58-plate car has been a daily driver for all the previous owners and has understandably clocked up 61,000 miles in 7 years or so. It baffles me how many early 997s are for sale with sub 30k miles on the clock! I understand 911s are often 3rd cars or weekend toys, but surely most are driven every day?!
I also suspect this practice is more widespread than we'd all like to believe.
Mots are online now, however I'm sure it won't stop people dialing back the mileage just before an not but as said earlier but on condition not mileage.I can tell that my 58-plate car has been a daily driver for all the previous owners and has understandably clocked up 61,000 miles in 7 years or so. It baffles me how many early 997s are for sale with sub 30k miles on the clock! I understand 911s are often 3rd cars or weekend toys, but surely most are driven every day?!
I also suspect this practice is more widespread than we'd all like to believe.
Thing is though chaps we're not only talking about traditional (mileage) clocking here - these guys are offering to reset your rev-range data....which is a vital indicator as to whether a car's engine has at some point been 'shagged' and thus to be avoided.
I'm not sure Porsche would be too pleased to see what these guys are offering...
I'm not sure Porsche would be too pleased to see what these guys are offering...
When you check your ecu for Rev range activity or rather when OPC does it will show up ie a car that has done 10k miles but ecu only shows 20 hours and 600 miles running tiime you smell a rat. Even if a car has low miles and has full opc history you can see a pattern of miles from service history etc. But if they can only wipe parts of ecu info then it will be a problem but I am sure an opc tech will know if it's been tampered with so if buying a car under 15years old have a 111 point check with the comprehensive ecu data print out.
Edited by GT4P on Sunday 31st January 16:55
mollytherocker said:
I believe that with the right equipment and know how that this sort of meddling can be spotted.
If done properly, it cannot... 
Moreover, how many dealers/technicians know where to look and what to do? For example, a BMW will write mileage/engine hours to the ECU, LCM, Air Bag module, Gearbox ECU, ABS, HCM and a few others. However, if these modules are replaced because they are no longer working, they need to be coded to the car with the correct data. Hence BMW allows you to re-program them. And no traces of that are left. I guarantee you that the good clockers know what they are doing. Go on, have a look on www.mobile.de and check out the number of up to 10 yrs old diesel BMWs with 140,000 to 190,000km on the clock. That in a country, which invented the Autobahn and the diesel engine, and where commuting 100 miles a day is the norm. Yeah, right... Cheburator mk2 said:
mollytherocker said:
I believe that with the right equipment and know how that this sort of meddling can be spotted.
If done properly, it cannot... Moreover, how many dealers/technicians know where to look and what to do? For example, a BMW will write mileage/engine hours to the ECU, LCM, Air Bag module, Gearbox ECU, ABS, HCM and a few others. However, if these modules are replaced because they are no longer working, they need to be coded to the car with the correct data. Hence BMW allows you to re-program them. And no traces of that are left. I guarantee you that the good clockers know what they are doing. Go on, have a look on www.mobile.de and check out the number of up to 10 yrs old diesel BMWs with 140,000 to 190,000km on the clock. That in a country, which invented the Autobahn and the diesel engine, and where commuting 100 miles a day is the norm. Yeah, right... This is rev range data which records over revs at various levels. I know of at least one indy who states he can tell whether there has been any tampering.
Oh, there is indeed a market for it! Imagine a low mileage 997 GT3 RS with over revs, what would that be worth with and without!
I can only go off what I have heard and read, but who knows for sure? I guess if someone has really cracked it, as in managing to not leave any trail or clues anywhere in numerous places on the car, then nobody would know!
Ignorance is bliss! It certainly is on my 993.
I can only go off what I have heard and read, but who knows for sure? I guess if someone has really cracked it, as in managing to not leave any trail or clues anywhere in numerous places on the car, then nobody would know!
Ignorance is bliss! It certainly is on my 993.
According to their quote, ECU Guru reset both the over rev count, as well as the time data to zero - indicating a new engine.
I don't believe that you can reset the over rev recordings without altering the time data too - it's either all or nothing. - In theory, it should be pretty straight forward to recognise a vehicle that has had its ECU reset as the engine time data will be way out compared to any recorded mileage.
I don't believe that you can reset the over rev recordings without altering the time data too - it's either all or nothing. - In theory, it should be pretty straight forward to recognise a vehicle that has had its ECU reset as the engine time data will be way out compared to any recorded mileage.
Good person to check this all with is Ken Napier at 9e. He told me ages ago that whenever ECU's are reset and or wiped it creates another count that cannot be wiped. Its one of the ways that Porsche see if for example you have had an after market exhaust and the ECU has been flashed to ensure it runs better then if you are under warranty you try and put the original back on and then return it to factory settings it creates another count. People say that this can be all reset back to normal are probably being disingenuous. Ken said although from a quick check all looks ok, if you know where to look you can tell its been tampered with.
berty37 said:
Good person to check this all with is Ken Napier at 9e. He told me ages ago that whenever ECU's are reset and or wiped it creates another count that cannot be wiped. Its one of the ways that Porsche see if for example you have had an after market exhaust and the ECU has been flashed to ensure it runs better then if you are under warranty you try and put the original back on and then return it to factory settings it creates another count. People say that this can be all reset back to normal are probably being disingenuous. Ken said although from a quick check all looks ok, if you know where to look you can tell its been tampered with.
Even if that's true - Porsche might be able to see the count but I wonder if many other people can. For example, Durametric showed me over-revs on my 996 turbo - but if they'd been reset to zero, I doubt it would have told me that.davek_964 said:
Even if that's true - Porsche might be able to see the count but I wonder if many other people can. For example, Durametric showed me over-revs on my 996 turbo - but if they'd been reset to zero, I doubt it would have told me that.
This is sort of my point - to the untrained eye and to a basic diagnostics check - everything would appear fine. I imagine when it comes to asking a dealer (especially an OPC) to buy the car or trade against it they will go through the ECU/DME with a fine tooth comb. Gassing Station | Porsche General | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff