When is Volunteering actually work?
Discussion
Your thoughts would be welcome...
Was just speaking to someone who has a slightly mentally disabled adult relative who Works at a small local business. I made the usual comments about that being good etc etc, then was surprised to be told they don't get paid as they are Volunteering to learn life skills.
My initial reaction was- OK, good idea. Then they continued to explain the person has worked there 2yrs+, it is not a course or work experience but an actual Job! Further more when they had spoken to the business owner one day the relative was unable to work the owner was upset and said something along the lines of- "Well I am running a business here, I'll have to get someone in to cover" implying this would cost them in the conversation.
I have no problem with people choosing to do volunteer work short term for learning skills or if they wish to contribute somehow but to work for nothing, for a business, for years and be expected to punch clock sounds to me like slavery!
FWIW- I run a business, if this is Kosha I'm firing people this afternoon :-)
Was just speaking to someone who has a slightly mentally disabled adult relative who Works at a small local business. I made the usual comments about that being good etc etc, then was surprised to be told they don't get paid as they are Volunteering to learn life skills.
My initial reaction was- OK, good idea. Then they continued to explain the person has worked there 2yrs+, it is not a course or work experience but an actual Job! Further more when they had spoken to the business owner one day the relative was unable to work the owner was upset and said something along the lines of- "Well I am running a business here, I'll have to get someone in to cover" implying this would cost them in the conversation.
I have no problem with people choosing to do volunteer work short term for learning skills or if they wish to contribute somehow but to work for nothing, for a business, for years and be expected to punch clock sounds to me like slavery!
FWIW- I run a business, if this is Kosha I'm firing people this afternoon :-)
21TonyK said:
Sounds like they've gone from a volunteer to cheap labour. Is this arranged through some form of agency or direct by the family?
AFAIK Organised by another relative.After a bit more discussion it sounds like the business has 2-3 paid employees full time and a part time rota of 20+ "special needs" persons who Volunteer... they do seem to have shifts and get grief if late/off-sick and there is no benefit in kind to them Working that I can see, the business in question seems to boast about its special "staff" on facebook too!
I wonder if they need a visit from DWP or whomever is relevant?
scubadude said:
AFAIK Organised by another relative.
After a bit more discussion it sounds like the business has 2-3 paid employees full time and a part time rota of 20+ "special needs" persons who Volunteer... they do seem to have shifts and get grief if late/off-sick and there is no benefit in kind to them Working that I can see, the business in question seems to boast about its special "staff" on facebook too!
Just grief? I'd be giving them a written warning, and possibly even fining them or even a bit of friendly torture. How dare someone is being being taken advantage of for free labour be late for "work"?!After a bit more discussion it sounds like the business has 2-3 paid employees full time and a part time rota of 20+ "special needs" persons who Volunteer... they do seem to have shifts and get grief if late/off-sick and there is no benefit in kind to them Working that I can see, the business in question seems to boast about its special "staff" on facebook too!
21TonyK said:
Does sound a little odd. Time to find somewhere more suitable. What sort of age group are the volunteers?
They are "Yoofs" :-) 16-21 apparently.I'm intrigued as to what loophole they think allows them to have unpaid staff- not to mention its taking the P*ss with people who might not know any better.
Eric Mc said:
Sounds rather exploitative to me.
Yes I agree. We are looking at having volunters and we have to be careful to call things tasks or projects, not "jobs". Each task has a start date and end date, aims and goals etc. We are told to be careful not to confuse matters. Sounds like this lotare being a bit careless..williamp said:
Eric Mc said:
Sounds rather exploitative to me.
Yes I agree. We are looking at having volunters and we have to be careful to call things tasks or projects, not "jobs". Each task has a start date and end date, aims and goals etc. We are told to be careful not to confuse matters. Sounds like this lotare being a bit careless..I mean, you might be using the correct legal terminology but that doesn't stop you taking the piss.
scubadude said:
Your thoughts would be welcome...
Was just speaking to someone who has a slightly mentally disabled adult relative who Works at a small local business. I made the usual comments about that being good etc etc, then was surprised to be told they don't get paid as they are Volunteering to learn life skills.
My initial reaction was- OK, good idea. Then they continued to explain the person has worked there 2yrs+, it is not a course or work experience but an actual Job! Further more when they had spoken to the business owner one day the relative was unable to work the owner was upset and said something along the lines of- "Well I am running a business here, I'll have to get someone in to cover" implying this would cost them in the conversation.
I have no problem with people choosing to do volunteer work short term for learning skills or if they wish to contribute somehow but to work for nothing, for a business, for years and be expected to punch clock sounds to me like slavery!
FWIW- I run a business, if this is Kosha I'm firing people this afternoon :-)
I'm also an employer.Was just speaking to someone who has a slightly mentally disabled adult relative who Works at a small local business. I made the usual comments about that being good etc etc, then was surprised to be told they don't get paid as they are Volunteering to learn life skills.
My initial reaction was- OK, good idea. Then they continued to explain the person has worked there 2yrs+, it is not a course or work experience but an actual Job! Further more when they had spoken to the business owner one day the relative was unable to work the owner was upset and said something along the lines of- "Well I am running a business here, I'll have to get someone in to cover" implying this would cost them in the conversation.
I have no problem with people choosing to do volunteer work short term for learning skills or if they wish to contribute somehow but to work for nothing, for a business, for years and be expected to punch clock sounds to me like slavery!
FWIW- I run a business, if this is Kosha I'm firing people this afternoon :-)
I do find this behaviour completely unacceptable. I don't agree with the minimum wage, but I disagree even more with people who flout it.
Internships really annoy me, and taking advantage of people with special needs is disgusting.
From the facts described the worker is entitled at the least to minimum wage, and to other employment rights. HMRC have a little known role as the enforcement agency for the minimum wage, and they are keen to stamp out exploitation of the kind described in the opening post. You can report the case to them and they may investigate without revealing the source of the tip off.
Note also that the worker may have legal protections associated with disability.
PM me for some pro bono assistance (ie free legal advice). If PH email is broken, as it appears to be, try an email address that is similar to but isn't quite -
patricknorth1 at yahoo dot co dot uk.
Note also that the worker may have legal protections associated with disability.
PM me for some pro bono assistance (ie free legal advice). If PH email is broken, as it appears to be, try an email address that is similar to but isn't quite -
patricknorth1 at yahoo dot co dot uk.
A lot of things depend on age etc but in a nutshell if they are in education (and they are until 18) then their education provider should be the one managing their work experience. What you describe is not work experience. I can only speak for my students but for them work experience is normally half a day each week for up to 7 weeks. And they would be accompanied by a member of school staff. Older, more able students (19 to 25) may undertake a work placement on a full (or near) full-time basis for which they are paid and treated as a member of staff.
As BV and others have already said something not right here. Apart from any other action you decide to take the first thing I would be doing is discussing with their school or college.
As BV and others have already said something not right here. Apart from any other action you decide to take the first thing I would be doing is discussing with their school or college.
scubadude said:
AFAIK Organised by another relative.
After a bit more discussion it sounds like the business has 2-3 paid employees full time and a part time rota of 20+ "special needs" persons who Volunteer... they do seem to have shifts and get grief if late/off-sick and there is no benefit in kind to them Working that I can see, the business in question seems to boast about its special "staff" on facebook too!
I wonder if they need a visit from DWP or whomever is relevant?
Im assuming this is a profit making company. After a bit more discussion it sounds like the business has 2-3 paid employees full time and a part time rota of 20+ "special needs" persons who Volunteer... they do seem to have shifts and get grief if late/off-sick and there is no benefit in kind to them Working that I can see, the business in question seems to boast about its special "staff" on facebook too!
I wonder if they need a visit from DWP or whomever is relevant?
So slavery then? Report to HMRC
In my opinion no profit making company should be allowed to use volunteers (with the obvious exception of work experience for under 16s), charities/non-profits should of course be allowed. But a company that makes a profit should be paying ALL staff.
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