Scam or just a stupid customer?
Discussion
At work I look after our online shop and 2 weeks ago I had an order that has me wondering.
Person orders one item and says it has been paid by Paypal.
Paypal says another person has paid for the order but it's a non verified account.
I have emailed the person that made the payment but have had no reply.
I asked the customer to let me know who paid for the order - they reply that they paid by credit card and their bank has confirmed that the money has left their account.
They also tell me that our web shop told them stuff that it doesn't. The stuff he told me was very different from what our shop actually has on.
A day later they ask me to cancel the order and refund the money.
I said I had cancelled the order but as he hadn't paid anything I couldn't refund him.
All communication has been by email as the only phone number left is not answered.
It's now about 10 days later and I've not heard another thing and we still have the money in our PP account.
It's only a sub £100 amount but it has me intrigued!
As the title is this some sort of scam or just, yet another, stupid customer?
Person orders one item and says it has been paid by Paypal.
Paypal says another person has paid for the order but it's a non verified account.
I have emailed the person that made the payment but have had no reply.
I asked the customer to let me know who paid for the order - they reply that they paid by credit card and their bank has confirmed that the money has left their account.
They also tell me that our web shop told them stuff that it doesn't. The stuff he told me was very different from what our shop actually has on.
A day later they ask me to cancel the order and refund the money.
I said I had cancelled the order but as he hadn't paid anything I couldn't refund him.
All communication has been by email as the only phone number left is not answered.
It's now about 10 days later and I've not heard another thing and we still have the money in our PP account.
It's only a sub £100 amount but it has me intrigued!
As the title is this some sort of scam or just, yet another, stupid customer?
Tim & Wacky,
Yes you're right I could just refund the money and as Wacky say's we haven't shipped anything.
But it just seems very odd to me.
Why has the original customer stopped contact?
Why has the person that paid not replied to my email?
Wacky, as you say, the net is full of scammers.
Simpo - my thoughts exactly, why take a risk, hence me asking here!
Gumb - I had thought about that but knowing the horror stories I thought I'd ask here.
Also I couldn't find a link on our PP account to a fraud team - maybe I don't have the right access.
I have look tomorrow and update the thread.
Thanks for all the replies.
Gumb - I had thought about that but knowing the horror stories I thought I'd ask here.
Also I couldn't find a link on our PP account to a fraud team - maybe I don't have the right access.
I have look tomorrow and update the thread.
Thanks for all the replies.
The only way you, as a retailer, can lose out is if a customer asks their bank to do a charge back but that would be AFTER the goods have shipped. If you've not shipped anything then simply refund through Pay Pal. They can't then take more money after the transaction has been refunded! About the only "scam" I can think of is it's a stolen card seeing if it works by making a test transaction, unlikely though really IMO. What is it you sell?
Yes, but then Pay Pal charge it back against you (the retailer), in my experience anyway! It's only happened to me twice, once I contacted Pay Pal themselves and they reimbursed me, the second time I emailed the customer direct asking them why they had asked their bank to do a charge back when I could prove they had signed for the goods, the customer decided to pay me back! On the other side of the coin I have this week asked my bank to do a charge back against an eBay seller for £840 worth of stuff that failed to arrive. The bank have refunded me, I guess Pay Pal will try & dispute it on the sellers behalf but it will be pretty hard to defend seeing as their feedback is now racking up negatives by the day!
Yes, Pay Pal will see the refund, they can't have the charge back AND the refund. Perhaps that's the "scam" they will try once the refund has been done? IIRC when you do a refund to a Pay Pal account it loads the account rather than the card that was used to pay? In other words, the Pay Pal account would show £100 but the card that was used to pay will still show £100 as going out, cue call to the bank to dispute & try & get charge back, then withdraw the £100 from the Pay Pal account too.
Dave_ST220 said:
.....IIRC when you do a refund to a Pay Pal account it loads the account rather than the card that was used to pay?....
Don't think that correct - I'm sure when I've paid by with my card via PP and had a refund the money has appeared on my card.Anyway, I contacted PP and they said do not refund but wait for the person that made the payment to request a refund via PP.
I'll update as and when anything happens.
skeggysteve said:
Dave_ST220 said:
.....IIRC when you do a refund to a Pay Pal account it loads the account rather than the card that was used to pay?....
Don't think that correct - I'm sure when I've paid by with my card via PP and had a refund the money has appeared on my card.Anyway, I contacted PP and they said do not refund but wait for the person that made the payment to request a refund via PP.
I'll update as and when anything happens.
I have had it before when one customer paid for A on bank account X, then decided to cancel the order and can I please pay it onto bank account Y... got very upset when I told them it doesnt work like that.
Told them I will refund the money to the account from which it came and not to another account as that will look like money laundering and I can get done for fraud...
<cue much swearing and threats>
'Has sir finished now, shall I transfer the money back to account X that paid for goods A?'
<cue more threats the he would put up on social media about how the customer service is shocking and they can't do simple tasks>
'No problem sir... please do put it up on social media, I will happily answer any questions people may have about you wanting to commit fraud and as far as Im aware launder money via my company, so that I get into trouble with HMRC... How would sir like me to proceed?'
<grumble grumble, transfer it back>
That was a fun day.
Told them I will refund the money to the account from which it came and not to another account as that will look like money laundering and I can get done for fraud...
<cue much swearing and threats>
'Has sir finished now, shall I transfer the money back to account X that paid for goods A?'
<cue more threats the he would put up on social media about how the customer service is shocking and they can't do simple tasks>
'No problem sir... please do put it up on social media, I will happily answer any questions people may have about you wanting to commit fraud and as far as Im aware launder money via my company, so that I get into trouble with HMRC... How would sir like me to proceed?'
<grumble grumble, transfer it back>
That was a fun day.
jammy_basturd said:
Does it not depend on the source of the funds when you paid, i.e. PayPal funds or direct from card?
I paid via a card. The refund came back as funds in the PP account. I then had to transfer the funds back to the bank account the card was linked to. This was an eBay purchase if that makes any difference?Dave_ST220 said:
I paid via a card. The refund came back as funds in the PP account. I then had to transfer the funds back to the bank account the card was linked to. This was an eBay purchase if that makes any difference?
I've never seen that happen. Spent crazy amounts through paypal, and had plenty of refunds - it always goes back onto the payment sources - even if it's split between paypal balance and card, the refund goes back to how it was - the portion from the card goes directly to the card.There was no money in the Pay pal account, I never leave money in there. I paid via card & the refund came back as showing as funds in the Pay Pal account which I then had to transfer back to the bank account.
Money out via card:-
Money back into PP account & subsequent transfer back to bank account by me :-
Maybe they did a payment rather than a refund but I don't think that was the case as they sent me a screen shot of the refund to show it had been done.
Money out via card:-
Money back into PP account & subsequent transfer back to bank account by me :-
Maybe they did a payment rather than a refund but I don't think that was the case as they sent me a screen shot of the refund to show it had been done.
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