Getting paid to drive when on company business ?
Discussion
Ok here's the deal, I have a fixed place of work and no company car. However, if I have to be somewhere for example a training corse which is located five hours away from my home am I entitled to get paid to drive? I use a hire car which is paid for and fuel is paid for. But including the course this equates to a 13 hour day when I'm only being paid for 8. And if I work out what I get paid for one day's work (8 hours) and divide it by 13 hours this takes me below min wage.
Have googled it without much success any ideas before I approach the hr team at my company... Or am I just being a tit about it and not worry after all I'm the one learning/ getting additional qualification. Any views/opinions?
Have googled it without much success any ideas before I approach the hr team at my company... Or am I just being a tit about it and not worry after all I'm the one learning/ getting additional qualification. Any views/opinions?
You're being a tit. 
As you have a fixed place of work and this is a one-off or irregular occurrence, travel to the training isn't considered part of your working time.
What you should do is make sure that you get fed and watered appropriately - even the stingiest companies I've worked for will allow reasonable subsistence expenses on a "day out". Not paying to drive to work plus the most expensive meal at a motorway KFC plus not actually having to do any work for a day is quite a good deal, all things considered!
As you have a fixed place of work and this is a one-off or irregular occurrence, travel to the training isn't considered part of your working time.
What you should do is make sure that you get fed and watered appropriately - even the stingiest companies I've worked for will allow reasonable subsistence expenses on a "day out". Not paying to drive to work plus the most expensive meal at a motorway KFC plus not actually having to do any work for a day is quite a good deal, all things considered!
[quote=davepoth]You're being a tit.
As you have a fixed place of work and this is a one-off or irregular occurrence, travel to the training isn't considered part of your working time.[quote]
Not necessarily being a tit.
My employer consider travelling time to and from training (other than at my place of work) as working time and it's paid at the appropriate rate e.g. Double time if I'm asked to travel on a Sunday evening to attend training on a Monday morning.
This is covered by a working away from base clause in our union agreement.
So have chat with colleagues and/or consult staff handbook.
As you have a fixed place of work and this is a one-off or irregular occurrence, travel to the training isn't considered part of your working time.[quote]
Not necessarily being a tit.
My employer consider travelling time to and from training (other than at my place of work) as working time and it's paid at the appropriate rate e.g. Double time if I'm asked to travel on a Sunday evening to attend training on a Monday morning.
This is covered by a working away from base clause in our union agreement.
So have chat with colleagues and/or consult staff handbook.
It depends entirely on your contract.
You may have wording to the effect of
- Occasional out of hours work or travel may be required as part of your role, to which no overtime is available
I always check my contract with work before I sign up, I would not take a job which did not pay overtime or offer time off in lieu.
I am able to get a hotel whenever I choose and it goes unquestioned if I book one when it's over 2 hours drive or more.
You may have wording to the effect of
- Occasional out of hours work or travel may be required as part of your role, to which no overtime is available
I always check my contract with work before I sign up, I would not take a job which did not pay overtime or offer time off in lieu.
I am able to get a hotel whenever I choose and it goes unquestioned if I book one when it's over 2 hours drive or more.
hi court said:
Ok here's the deal, I have a fixed place of work and no company car. However, if I have to be somewhere for example a training corse which is located five hours away from my home am I entitled to get paid to drive? I use a hire car which is paid for and fuel is paid for. But including the course this equates to a 13 hour day when I'm only being paid for 8. And if I work out what I get paid for one day's work (8 hours) and divide it by 13 hours this takes me below min wage.
Have googled it without much success any ideas before I approach the hr team at my company... Or am I just being a tit about it and not worry after all I'm the one learning/ getting additional qualification. Any views/opinions?
5 hrs each way or roundtrip?Have googled it without much success any ideas before I approach the hr team at my company... Or am I just being a tit about it and not worry after all I'm the one learning/ getting additional qualification. Any views/opinions?
if the latter i'd just do it and claim the petrol as its much better to sleep in your own bed wherever possible. if the former i'd leave work at lunchtime and stay in a hotel. no point arriving for training in an unfit state to take it all in. claim all fuel, lodging and food back through expenses. if you're not covered for business travel then i'd also consider a hire car.
for those saying just suck it up, its a shonky outfit which doesn't look after it's people or its own corporate image should something unfortunate happen to them.
I think it's somewhere in the middle of all the stuff above tbh.
If it's a course that is only of benefit to your employer and your employer is reasonable and sensible I'm sure they'd expect you to book any time in addition to your core hours as flexitime, overtime, or time in lieu - as in you don't work 5 hours for free.
On the other hand if it's an industry qualification or a training course where it's to your advantage to do it, I think a bit of common sense has to kick in somewhere i.e. if I'm on a £10k training course that I can use for the rest of my life, am I that bothered about a few hours salary?
Of course if you work for an unscrupulous employer chalk off all of the above because what's common sense often goes out the window and you're into whether they'll just see you as trouble and hold it against you.
If it's a course that is only of benefit to your employer and your employer is reasonable and sensible I'm sure they'd expect you to book any time in addition to your core hours as flexitime, overtime, or time in lieu - as in you don't work 5 hours for free.
On the other hand if it's an industry qualification or a training course where it's to your advantage to do it, I think a bit of common sense has to kick in somewhere i.e. if I'm on a £10k training course that I can use for the rest of my life, am I that bothered about a few hours salary?
Of course if you work for an unscrupulous employer chalk off all of the above because what's common sense often goes out the window and you're into whether they'll just see you as trouble and hold it against you.
Right, thanks for the replies I knew this was the place to ask.
Just to clear a few things up as I was bit vague in my first post, it's a five hour trip each way. So day before the course I drive up in the afternoon and get paid my normal hourly rate I leave work at lunchtime. I then stay in a hotel for one night, all fuel and food expenses are paid for by the company as is a hire car.
However when the training course finishes at 4.30 and I get home five hours later this is what I am on about. And also when I have training course Monday morning which is then a five hour journey on a Sunday. Again unpaid. Obviously I'm open to the idea of time off in leui, single time or double time. Currently overtime is paid by the company when required.
I have checked my contract which basically says employees aren't supposed to be left out of pocket when on a business trip. I feel doing a 13 hour day which based on my current hourly rate spread over 13 hours takes me under minimum wage therefore I'm out of pocket!!
Again if it was an industry respected qualification I probably wouldn't care, but it's a course that's just another box ticked for my employers business. Which incidentally is a multi million pound company and one of the biggest employers in this field across 3 counties.
Think I will bring the issue up with management and go from there... tbc!
Just to clear a few things up as I was bit vague in my first post, it's a five hour trip each way. So day before the course I drive up in the afternoon and get paid my normal hourly rate I leave work at lunchtime. I then stay in a hotel for one night, all fuel and food expenses are paid for by the company as is a hire car.
However when the training course finishes at 4.30 and I get home five hours later this is what I am on about. And also when I have training course Monday morning which is then a five hour journey on a Sunday. Again unpaid. Obviously I'm open to the idea of time off in leui, single time or double time. Currently overtime is paid by the company when required.
I have checked my contract which basically says employees aren't supposed to be left out of pocket when on a business trip. I feel doing a 13 hour day which based on my current hourly rate spread over 13 hours takes me under minimum wage therefore I'm out of pocket!!
Again if it was an industry respected qualification I probably wouldn't care, but it's a course that's just another box ticked for my employers business. Which incidentally is a multi million pound company and one of the biggest employers in this field across 3 counties.
Think I will bring the issue up with management and go from there... tbc!
Wow, I really missed out. My previous employer used to send us all over for work and we had to just suck it up.
I think my worst week was an 0530 start, drive 150 miles to customer. Do a day's work. Drive to airport directly from customer. Fly to France. Sleep for five hours (time difference; didn't get to hotel until midnight France time). Do a day's work. Fly back. Drive to hotel - 11pm. Sleep for seven hours. Drive to next customer, apologise for being late (all contracts specified we would be onsite and working at 0900 until 1730) as I couldn't drag myself out of bed to be on the road at 0530. Do a day's work. Arrive home at 2000.
I can't remember the final two days of that week. Think they were "easy" - just an hour and half commute each way.
The joy of the "other hours as required" clause in the contract. No overtime!
I think my worst week was an 0530 start, drive 150 miles to customer. Do a day's work. Drive to airport directly from customer. Fly to France. Sleep for five hours (time difference; didn't get to hotel until midnight France time). Do a day's work. Fly back. Drive to hotel - 11pm. Sleep for seven hours. Drive to next customer, apologise for being late (all contracts specified we would be onsite and working at 0900 until 1730) as I couldn't drag myself out of bed to be on the road at 0530. Do a day's work. Arrive home at 2000.
I can't remember the final two days of that week. Think they were "easy" - just an hour and half commute each way.
The joy of the "other hours as required" clause in the contract. No overtime!
Just wow....
I can't believe such a complaint is being made about a one off 5 hour trip.
Be glad you don't work in a position of responsibility or a manager, etc.
Completely over the top example below... but this has been over the course of 2 and a bit years and shows what doing the extra mile can do:
Lost count of the amount of overtime I have not b
hed and whined at... For example I need to be in Dublin on Tuesday morning and get told at 3pm on Monday, so Im awake at 3/4am to get to the airport ready for the first flight out in the morning, then I will work nearly 10 hours straight and get the evening flight back and might not be home until 11pm.
Its mainly a one off, I make sure they know Im doing them a favour, but I don't go running around demanding overtime as they don't take the piss and do it every week, its once every 4-6 months or so that a client pulls that one and a senior member of staff needs to go across.
However its stuff like that and other things, that means I got noticed and have been promoted first out of all the people I joined with and its got quite a few peoples back up (promoted on ability and proving yourself to company rather than time worked) that Im now more senior and get the better projects, because I help out the company by doing the odd stty job and not complaining all the time.
I can't believe such a complaint is being made about a one off 5 hour trip.
Be glad you don't work in a position of responsibility or a manager, etc.
Completely over the top example below... but this has been over the course of 2 and a bit years and shows what doing the extra mile can do:
Lost count of the amount of overtime I have not b
hed and whined at... For example I need to be in Dublin on Tuesday morning and get told at 3pm on Monday, so Im awake at 3/4am to get to the airport ready for the first flight out in the morning, then I will work nearly 10 hours straight and get the evening flight back and might not be home until 11pm.Its mainly a one off, I make sure they know Im doing them a favour, but I don't go running around demanding overtime as they don't take the piss and do it every week, its once every 4-6 months or so that a client pulls that one and a senior member of staff needs to go across.
However its stuff like that and other things, that means I got noticed and have been promoted first out of all the people I joined with and its got quite a few peoples back up (promoted on ability and proving yourself to company rather than time worked) that Im now more senior and get the better projects, because I help out the company by doing the odd s
tty job and not complaining all the time.I agree with the posters who are questioning why on earth you are moaning! In my mind you do what you have to do to get the job done but if a few hours driving means that you're dropping below the minimum wage per hour worked then I'll assume you're a bit wet behind the ears. The course you are doing presumably better equips you for the job and gives you skills you don't already have, best bit is your employer is paying for it.
Take the advice above and you'll probably be better for it in a few years time.
Take the advice above and you'll probably be better for it in a few years time.
Flooble said:
Wow, I really missed out. My previous employer used to send us all over for work and we had to just suck it up.
I think my worst week was an 0530 start, drive 150 miles to customer. Do a day's work. Drive to airport directly from customer. Fly to France. Sleep for five hours (time difference; didn't get to hotel until midnight France time). Do a day's work. Fly back. Drive to hotel - 11pm. Sleep for seven hours. Drive to next customer, apologise for being late (all contracts specified we would be onsite and working at 0900 until 1730) as I couldn't drag myself out of bed to be on the road at 0530. Do a day's work. Arrive home at 2000.
I can't remember the final two days of that week. Think they were "easy" - just an hour and half commute each way.
The joy of the "other hours as required" clause in the contract. No overtime!
Sounds like some job you had, I assume you weren't doing all that for less than minimum wage?I think my worst week was an 0530 start, drive 150 miles to customer. Do a day's work. Drive to airport directly from customer. Fly to France. Sleep for five hours (time difference; didn't get to hotel until midnight France time). Do a day's work. Fly back. Drive to hotel - 11pm. Sleep for seven hours. Drive to next customer, apologise for being late (all contracts specified we would be onsite and working at 0900 until 1730) as I couldn't drag myself out of bed to be on the road at 0530. Do a day's work. Arrive home at 2000.
I can't remember the final two days of that week. Think they were "easy" - just an hour and half commute each way.
The joy of the "other hours as required" clause in the contract. No overtime!
And no its not a one off I have another five courses booked in the next three months some of them even further away.
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