Solicitors as co-executors
Discussion
My mother died recently, I am executor along with her solicitor. The estate is very straightforward and under the threshold for Inhertence Tax. I have been quoted £3-4k for the solicitor to administer the estate which seems ridiculous. I've had a look at the forms and am happy that I could manage it myself.
My question is, what is my position with regard to getting the solicitor to renounce their executorship? Can I just tell them I don't want them to be involved, or do they have to be involved as it is stated in the will? If I can't get "rid" of them, what is the minimum involvement they must have to perform their role?
My question is, what is my position with regard to getting the solicitor to renounce their executorship? Can I just tell them I don't want them to be involved, or do they have to be involved as it is stated in the will? If I can't get "rid" of them, what is the minimum involvement they must have to perform their role?
You are best to politely ask them to resign as you wish to deal with the estate yourself.
If they won't the only way is via a Court Order applied for by the beneficiaries.
If they stay, even if you do all the work, because they carry a joint liability for it they will want to check every stage so will likely charge a similar fee.
If they won't the only way is via a Court Order applied for by the beneficiaries.
If they stay, even if you do all the work, because they carry a joint liability for it they will want to check every stage so will likely charge a similar fee.
Just be grateful she didn't appoint her bank. 
They are even worse and are often impossible to get rid of. The lure of ££ is too strong especially as they usually charge a percentage of the value of the whole estate. Easy money for them especially if there are no complications to deal with.
Are there any beneficiaries other than you? If so, and all adopt a united front on the issue, together you might have a chance of persuading the firm to stand down. You can't compel it to renounce probate though (unless you could prove incapability/maladministration and removal would require action by you in the High Court which will be ruinously expensive) as it will be acting for the (deceased) client, not you.
The main reason for appointing solicitors is to avoid any potential for family members to squabble over an estate. Absent that possibility it is better to appoint those you trust. If they feel unable to handle the job they can choose to appoint a solicitor themselves and are then in a position to negotiate the fee.
Some bedtime reading.
http://www.probaters.com/about-us/probate-blog/201...
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...
They are even worse and are often impossible to get rid of. The lure of ££ is too strong especially as they usually charge a percentage of the value of the whole estate. Easy money for them especially if there are no complications to deal with.Are there any beneficiaries other than you? If so, and all adopt a united front on the issue, together you might have a chance of persuading the firm to stand down. You can't compel it to renounce probate though (unless you could prove incapability/maladministration and removal would require action by you in the High Court which will be ruinously expensive) as it will be acting for the (deceased) client, not you.
The main reason for appointing solicitors is to avoid any potential for family members to squabble over an estate. Absent that possibility it is better to appoint those you trust. If they feel unable to handle the job they can choose to appoint a solicitor themselves and are then in a position to negotiate the fee.
Some bedtime reading.
http://www.probaters.com/about-us/probate-blog/201...
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...
You will have to check if it applies to executors, we were able to change my Dad's will post death. If all the beneficiaries agree to a change it can be done.
Inour case, the will left everything equally to all 4 kids..........my sister had been advanced some money and it hadn't been reflected in the will so we all agreed that she would get a lesser amount, this was done "properly/officially".
The paperwork wasn't mega difficult, if all beneficiaries agree to remove the solicitor it could work
Inour case, the will left everything equally to all 4 kids..........my sister had been advanced some money and it hadn't been reflected in the will so we all agreed that she would get a lesser amount, this was done "properly/officially".
The paperwork wasn't mega difficult, if all beneficiaries agree to remove the solicitor it could work
Top three don'ts when it comes to wills.
Don't appoint a solicitor as an executor.
Don't appoint a bank as an executor.
Don't appoint an accountant as an executor.
If you take your time, read all the legislation and proceed steadily and carefully, estates can be settled quite easily unless they're very, very complex.
Don't appoint a solicitor as an executor.
Don't appoint a bank as an executor.
Don't appoint an accountant as an executor.
If you take your time, read all the legislation and proceed steadily and carefully, estates can be settled quite easily unless they're very, very complex.
I have a vested interest here and would like to blag a mild hijack if I may
Would you still suggest going DIY if a will has a clause disinheriting one son/daughter and passing their share onto this person's children instead?
When the time comes I anticipate that there will be an enormous fall out and much bickering but as far as I know the will is categorically water tight in writing them completely out. Thinking about it though £3-4k would very probably be money well spent if thats 'all' it is likely to cost...........
Cheers
numtumfutunch said:
I have a vested interest here and would like to blag a mild hijack if I may
Would you still suggest going DIY if a will has a clause disinheriting one son/daughter and passing their share onto this person's children instead?
When the time comes I anticipate that there will be an enormous fall out and much bickering but as far as I know the will is categorically water tight in writing them completely out. Thinking about it though £3-4k would very probably be money well spent if thats 'all' it is likely to cost...........
Cheers
not a straightforward case as with the OP but still unnecessary to have a 'professional' as an executor. Would you still suggest going DIY if a will has a clause disinheriting one son/daughter and passing their share onto this person's children instead?
When the time comes I anticipate that there will be an enormous fall out and much bickering but as far as I know the will is categorically water tight in writing them completely out. Thinking about it though £3-4k would very probably be money well spent if thats 'all' it is likely to cost...........
Cheers
Process the will as written. If it's challenged the appoint a lawyer then.
I've just read the MoneySavingExpert thread linked to earlier and I'd just like to thank everyone who has contributed to this thread for keeping it professional and respectful unlike the MSE thread! My sister is also a beneficiary and agrees with me so if we both write and ask for them to step down, that is all we can realistcally do.
I managed to convince both my mother and father-in-law to change their wills so that the solicitors who draw up the wills were no longer executors. One of the solicitors claimed it was his legal duty to ensure that the replacement executor was competent and wanted to charge over £300 to do so. We just ignored his letters and he stopped contacting us when I informed him that a new will had been made and he was no longer named as an executor.
My mother died last September and I handled all the form filling, contacting of banks, etc. required for probate and inheritance tax myself. Took a couple of months in total but not difficult - I found all the necessary forms on-line. It was simplified as the estate was left to my brother and I and we were also the executors. In fact I did all the work as I previously had power of attorney for my mother and hence had all the paperwork. A slight complication was that my mother had given the house to my brother and I but continued to live in it.
The on-line form for Inheritance Tax was brilliant. The answers to some questions triggered prompts that other forms are also required to be completed.
My mother died last September and I handled all the form filling, contacting of banks, etc. required for probate and inheritance tax myself. Took a couple of months in total but not difficult - I found all the necessary forms on-line. It was simplified as the estate was left to my brother and I and we were also the executors. In fact I did all the work as I previously had power of attorney for my mother and hence had all the paperwork. A slight complication was that my mother had given the house to my brother and I but continued to live in it.
The on-line form for Inheritance Tax was brilliant. The answers to some questions triggered prompts that other forms are also required to be completed.
In my experience, solicitors like to be named as executors and even encourage this. They do it for one reason and one reason alone! Money!!!
Whilst a generalisation, I always recommend family members or best friends as executors which allows the executors to appoint a solicitor if they wish to help. The fees when trying to 'win' business can be quite different to the fees when legally named as an executor. This is just life in my view and applies to many professions.
Just ask them to stand aside or haggle hard on costs. The Will has specific wording allowing them to charge professional expenses and fees though. They always do if and when solicitors are executors. Most Wills have that ability granted to any executor in fact?
Whilst a generalisation, I always recommend family members or best friends as executors which allows the executors to appoint a solicitor if they wish to help. The fees when trying to 'win' business can be quite different to the fees when legally named as an executor. This is just life in my view and applies to many professions.
Just ask them to stand aside or haggle hard on costs. The Will has specific wording allowing them to charge professional expenses and fees though. They always do if and when solicitors are executors. Most Wills have that ability granted to any executor in fact?
Slaav said:
Most Wills have that ability granted to any executor in fact?
No. A non-professional executor most certainly can not charge a fee and it would be highly unusual for a will to include such a clause permitting it. Only disbursements (e.g. the cost of applying for the Grant of Administration aka Probate) and expenses (e.g. postage/copying/phone calls/etc.) can be claimed from the estate and a full record thereof needs to be kept.Red Devil said:
No. A non-professional executor most certainly can not charge a fee and it would be highly unusual for a will to include such a clause permitting it. Only disbursements (e.g. the cost of applying for the Grant of Administration aka Probate) and expenses (e.g. postage/copying/phone calls/etc.) can be claimed from the estate and a full record thereof needs to be kept.
Sorry - I think I was failing to multi task when typed that...I was under the impression (!) that any reasonable professional charges or fees can be charged to the estate?
Wasn't there a recent case where a scummy financial advisor son charged his mum his normal hourly rate to actual go and visit her when ill? He then deducted that from her money and affairs as he had PoA and the judge threw it out and charged him back? Reversing the argument he put forward that he was acting in his 'professional capacity' when visiting mum?
I recently sat in a 'probate' meeting where one of the three executors asked about time and expenses and the solicitor who was formally appointed to help with probate said that as long as everyone agreed, reasonable expenses could be charged to the estate - wife was present and agreed; I don't think that would include their normal time and hourly rates etc. All professionals but Surveyor, doctor etc.
I will dig my own WIll out this weekend and see what that says.....
mph1977 said:
LordHaveMurci said:
I was going to appoint my Solicitors but my IFA convinced me it was a bad (expensive) idea.
solicitors like to be executors becasue they get yet another bite of the chaerry at that client's money ... 
k up with the wording of the will that they have drafted they can cover it up and thereby head off an expensive negligence action.Buy yourself a copy of Wills, Probate and Inheritance Tax for Dummies. Full of useful info and covers this very point. About eight quid off Amazon
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wills-Probate-Inheritance-...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Wills-Probate-Inheritance-...
Greg66 said:
mph1977 said:
LordHaveMurci said:
I was going to appoint my Solicitors but my IFA convinced me it was a bad (expensive) idea.
solicitors like to be executors becasue they get yet another bite of the chaerry at that client's money ... k up with the wording of the will that they have drafted they can cover it up and thereby head off an expensive negligence action.From memory the fees were only a couple of £K including selling the house - certainly nothing of concern - and the old guys benefits were very screwed up, he'd been getting stuff for years that he shouldn't have been so we were also relieved to be isolated from any responsibility there.
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