Friends conundrum: dispute with sister over house in will
Discussion
I’m looking for some advice on behalf of a workmate on his current rights/options with regards to an ongoing property dispute with his sister.
Workmate’s parents passed away roughly 4 years ago, leaving a property to my friend and his sister with the value to be divided 50/50. His sister has been living in the property since the death of their parents, and is now refusing to vacate, sell or buy my friend out of his share of the property.
Here’s a few bullet points about the situation:
- Sister moved in to the property 12 months before the death of their mother.
- She moved in to the property following the repossession of her own home owing to financial mismanagement.
- She moved in with two teenage children, now in their twenties, who still live at the address.
- Sister became power of attorney of their mother’s finances - this was originally assigned to my workmate - who transferred power to his sister as he was going through a divorce at the time of death and was struggling emotionally.
- The will remains unchanged and my friend has not signed any documents in relation to the property, or his sister’s tenancy there.
- Workmate and his sister verbally agreed that she could remain in the property if she bought him out of his 50% share – she was not keen on leaving the property and disrupting her children after the repossession of her previous home.
- Workmate received roughly £15,000 before all payments stopped; with his sister citing lack of job security as the reason.
- Sister has remained in the same job and has since purchased sports cars, multiple cars for her teenage sons (two each at one point), holidays and pets.
- Sister has somehow secured a mortgage against the property (again nothing signed by my workmate) in order to alleviate personal debt, fund sports cars and a lavish lifestyle.
- Parts of the property have been demolished; it is unclear whether this is for financial gain or taste preference.
- She ceased all contact with my friend 2 years ago, refuses to leave or pay him his share.
Workmate has not been in a position financially, or emotionally to start legal proceedings with his sister until now. He recognises he was unwise to trust his sister, given her previous financial situation, to be able to buy him out of his share.
He’s let it go on far too long and is now considering his options. He’s finding the whole ordeal quite overwhelming; and given I know nothing about legal proceedings, I ask you the good people of PH what are my friends options and where should he start?
Can he obtain a court order to get her to vacate and sell the property? Or does any of the above effect his ability to get her out?
Workmate’s parents passed away roughly 4 years ago, leaving a property to my friend and his sister with the value to be divided 50/50. His sister has been living in the property since the death of their parents, and is now refusing to vacate, sell or buy my friend out of his share of the property.
Here’s a few bullet points about the situation:
- Sister moved in to the property 12 months before the death of their mother.
- She moved in to the property following the repossession of her own home owing to financial mismanagement.
- She moved in with two teenage children, now in their twenties, who still live at the address.
- Sister became power of attorney of their mother’s finances - this was originally assigned to my workmate - who transferred power to his sister as he was going through a divorce at the time of death and was struggling emotionally.
- The will remains unchanged and my friend has not signed any documents in relation to the property, or his sister’s tenancy there.
- Workmate and his sister verbally agreed that she could remain in the property if she bought him out of his 50% share – she was not keen on leaving the property and disrupting her children after the repossession of her previous home.
- Workmate received roughly £15,000 before all payments stopped; with his sister citing lack of job security as the reason.
- Sister has remained in the same job and has since purchased sports cars, multiple cars for her teenage sons (two each at one point), holidays and pets.
- Sister has somehow secured a mortgage against the property (again nothing signed by my workmate) in order to alleviate personal debt, fund sports cars and a lavish lifestyle.
- Parts of the property have been demolished; it is unclear whether this is for financial gain or taste preference.
- She ceased all contact with my friend 2 years ago, refuses to leave or pay him his share.
Workmate has not been in a position financially, or emotionally to start legal proceedings with his sister until now. He recognises he was unwise to trust his sister, given her previous financial situation, to be able to buy him out of his share.
He’s let it go on far too long and is now considering his options. He’s finding the whole ordeal quite overwhelming; and given I know nothing about legal proceedings, I ask you the good people of PH what are my friends options and where should he start?
Can he obtain a court order to get her to vacate and sell the property? Or does any of the above effect his ability to get her out?
The mortgage against the property (or any other secured finance) is the major thing that I would want to know about. So many presumptions and hearsay regarding the other details.
If he can't get a decent dialogue and documents from his sister, he will absolutely just have to involve a solicitor. As long as it is legally recognised that he still owns 50% of the property, and that 50% is not encumbered by any form of debt, then that would at least provide some comfort that he still holds a financial interest.
My Mum went through a similar issue with her brother many years ago, and it took a lot of legal wrangling to resolve. Avoiding excessive legal costs for both parties should be the main priority.
If he can't get a decent dialogue and documents from his sister, he will absolutely just have to involve a solicitor. As long as it is legally recognised that he still owns 50% of the property, and that 50% is not encumbered by any form of debt, then that would at least provide some comfort that he still holds a financial interest.
My Mum went through a similar issue with her brother many years ago, and it took a lot of legal wrangling to resolve. Avoiding excessive legal costs for both parties should be the main priority.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Not sure he should be unduly worried. Gives a pretty decent lever for getting his money as if there is a good chance she has defrauded the lender. That ultimately is the lenders problem not his. Just need to act quickly in case she defaults on the loan / mortgage.Drums said:
Workmate’s parents passed away roughly 4 years ago, leaving a property to my friend and his sister with the value to be divided 50/50.
Who was the executor of his parent's estate (this is quite separate from the PoA)? If the will passed a half share to each sibling has his 50% interest been recorded on the Title Register at the Land Registry? If not, why not? Something very dodgy here because if he holds a share in the property how on earth did his sister obtain a mortgage?He needs paid for and indemnified professional advice from a specialist in this field asap or he could lose everything.
Buzz84 said:
If the workmates sister has a mortgage secured on the house, and if she were to default on it, as a joint owner could they come after the the workmate for it? with other repercussions like credit history etc?
No, unless perhaps she has forged his signature on the mortgage documents...I agree with these guys, the property can't be legally mortgaged in one name if the property is jointly owned, U.K. Lenders are required to hold the mortgage in the same names as the deeds, so it may be that the property has been transferred incorrectly to the sister, and this can potentially be unraveled by a solicitor, or fraudulent borrowing. This may be down to the sister, or could involve the mortgage adviser and or the solicitor used in the remortgage. Assuming your friend did not sign the papers himself, he should be protected somewhat, but the lawyers here will know to what extent, but it may be a case of providing the evidence that he didn't sign, which could be difficult of course (difficult to prove you didn't do something)
It is of course worth looking into the mortgage arranger if you can identify who it was, they should be registered with a firm that is regulated by the FCA. I have come across some cases where fraudulent advisers are involved, and sometimes this is a long process to put right, sometimes not. Advisers giving advice must be beyond reproach, so if you can get the history of the guy involved, and he was in any way not fit for the job, you have a great shout at being able to have the mortgage and it's conditions overturned on that basis alone (I had a client who was sold a mortgage by an ex-felon, that should not have been employed in the industry, and the lender and the firm for whom he worked lost the case on a repossession from what I was told after referring him to a solicitor, I'm sure there was more to it than that, but I didn't have an angle to earn from the case so i moved on and I didn't keep in touch to follow it closely)
It is of course worth looking into the mortgage arranger if you can identify who it was, they should be registered with a firm that is regulated by the FCA. I have come across some cases where fraudulent advisers are involved, and sometimes this is a long process to put right, sometimes not. Advisers giving advice must be beyond reproach, so if you can get the history of the guy involved, and he was in any way not fit for the job, you have a great shout at being able to have the mortgage and it's conditions overturned on that basis alone (I had a client who was sold a mortgage by an ex-felon, that should not have been employed in the industry, and the lender and the firm for whom he worked lost the case on a repossession from what I was told after referring him to a solicitor, I'm sure there was more to it than that, but I didn't have an angle to earn from the case so i moved on and I didn't keep in touch to follow it closely)
So sister has sole power of attorney and is executor of will, transfers house into her own name on mothers death. Then goes and mortgages house for massive spendup.
Why haven't you got copy of deeds from land registry only takes minutes online will tell you name of person who owns house, when it changed hands and if it is mortgaged.
All supposition until you have evidence from title deeds
Then get your mate to go and see a solicitor urgently
Why haven't you got copy of deeds from land registry only takes minutes online will tell you name of person who owns house, when it changed hands and if it is mortgaged.
All supposition until you have evidence from title deeds
Then get your mate to go and see a solicitor urgently
Edited by twokcc on Wednesday 24th February 14:01
Edited by twokcc on Wednesday 24th February 14:04
PoA ceased to be relevant at the death of the mother.
If the will left the property 50/50, and it was still in the mother's name at her death, then he SHOULD be a joint owner, and it can't be mortgaged.
As a joint owner, he can apply for a court order to sell the property - you need to be reading up on TOLATA.
If the will left the property 50/50, and it was still in the mother's name at her death, then he SHOULD be a joint owner, and it can't be mortgaged.
As a joint owner, he can apply for a court order to sell the property - you need to be reading up on TOLATA.
Some fantastic advice on this thread already. Thank you all so much.
We're at work together at the minute and are checking this thread whenever we have time.
He's going to look up the land registry records ASAP and see if his name is still there. It's been at least 18 months since he spoke to his sister (she's either not in or hiding whenever he visits the property).
To answer some other questions he says his sister was the executor of the will; this was also a responsibility he passed to her, legally, as he wasn't holding up well at the time. Would this give her the power to transfer the house in her own name without a signature from the joint owner?
He believes his sister has all documents relating to the will and he hasn't been able to obtain them.
He also just told me that his sister worked (or still does work) in an administrative position for a solicitors firm. Not sure how relevant this is, but given the situation it seems noteworthy.
We're at work together at the minute and are checking this thread whenever we have time.
He's going to look up the land registry records ASAP and see if his name is still there. It's been at least 18 months since he spoke to his sister (she's either not in or hiding whenever he visits the property).
To answer some other questions he says his sister was the executor of the will; this was also a responsibility he passed to her, legally, as he wasn't holding up well at the time. Would this give her the power to transfer the house in her own name without a signature from the joint owner?
He believes his sister has all documents relating to the will and he hasn't been able to obtain them.
He also just told me that his sister worked (or still does work) in an administrative position for a solicitors firm. Not sure how relevant this is, but given the situation it seems noteworthy.
Some things about what you're being told don't make any sense. The principle thing is that she would surely not be able to get a mortgage after having a house repossessed within what sounds like a short timeframe? I know its possible but unlikely. I wonder whether she's done an equity release?
Does he actually have any confirmation that the house was put in both names?
Does he actually have any confirmation that the house was put in both names?
zedstar said:
Some things about what you're being told don't make any sense. The principle thing is that she would surely not be able to get a mortgage after having a house repossessed within what sounds like a short timeframe? I know its possible but unlikely. I wonder whether she's done an equity release?
Does he actually have any confirmation that the house was put in both names?
It didn't seem right to me either. Though for context I'm in my early 20's and have never owned a property so I don't have a clue about the legalities of a mortgage. Does he actually have any confirmation that the house was put in both names?
He tells me that the will definitely stated a 50/50 split and as far as he's concerned it remains unchanged. He hasn’t ever been notified of any changes to the will, and has never signed anything in relation to his sister and the property.
I've never heard of an equity release so I'll look it up now.
Drums said:
has never signed anything in relation to his sister and the property.
Once he had given sister sole POA he had already signed away any need for his signature for the transfer of the house. His sister could do whatever she liked (should be in her mothers best interest whilst she acting as attorney) during this period. Transfer of house after death would usually be done by a solicitor so would be surprised if he did not ask to see the will but sure if someone determined enough they could bypass some of the basic checks that solicitor would undertake. Almost certain house will be registered in sisters sole name(+ mortgage companys interest detailed) but date of change of ownership will tell if this done before or after mothers death.HTH
twokcc said:
Once he had given sister sole POA he had already signed away any need for his signature for the transfer of the house. His sister could do whatever she liked (should be in her mothers best interest whilst she acting as attorney) during this period. Transfer of house after death would usually be done by a solicitor so would be surprised if he did not ask to see the will but sure if someone determined enough they could bypass some of the basic checks that solicitor would undertake. Almost certain house will be registered in sisters sole name(+ mortgage companys interest detailed) but date of change of ownership will tell if this done before or after mothers death.
HTH
This certainly sounds like the most logical explanation. He was rather tied up with his divorce and battle for custody of his children both before, during and after the death. She may well of taken advantage of his situation at this point whilst he was oblivious to what was happening with his parents estate. HTH
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