Help with low & slow
Discussion
Hi guys, I'm looking for a bit of advice/pointers on slow cooking as the last few attempts have been really disappointing.
I have a slow cooker, and also an aga, but have had mixed results with various cuts of meat. Where am I going wrong- is it temperature, method, or just that I need to buy better quality, fattier cuts?
For instance, I tried a beef stew a while back and bought from our local butcher a kilo of chuck steak (they didn't have shin). I dusted with seasoned flour, seared over a high heat in batches (being careful not to overload the pan), deglazed using wine and then browned off veg. All then into a low oven (say 120c) after covering with stock and after 4 hours or so it really wasn't tender at all, despite good flavour as a result of the veg, stock and herbs etc. I was thinking maybe I used too much salt perhaps, which then drew the moisture out. Or perhaps oven too low for that cooking time. I can tell you though that there was no way it would have benefited from further cooking as it was already tough.
So, I then bought a slow cooker and tried a few of the receipes on various PH threads. One, using lamb shanks was great- but then I saw the 'two greedy italians' programme where Gennaro does a topside (not a cut I thought would be suited) stew and it was literally fall-apart fantastic. Tried it last night, and same usual technique- browning the meat off on a high heat for not too long, then assemble the other components. checked it after the 2 hours (yes, I thought not long enough either but that's what he said) and no way was it tender at all. After 4 hours on medium setting it was slightly tender, but again, nothing like Gennaros. Check this meat porn out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqqsIj9X9-o&t=...
I'm getting a bit pissed off with the lack of success- so, any help much appreciated. I want to persevere.
My Aga is a 4 oven jobbie, so top right is 220c, bottom right 180c, top left 110c and bottom left plate warmer/too cool probably.
I have a slow cooker, and also an aga, but have had mixed results with various cuts of meat. Where am I going wrong- is it temperature, method, or just that I need to buy better quality, fattier cuts?
For instance, I tried a beef stew a while back and bought from our local butcher a kilo of chuck steak (they didn't have shin). I dusted with seasoned flour, seared over a high heat in batches (being careful not to overload the pan), deglazed using wine and then browned off veg. All then into a low oven (say 120c) after covering with stock and after 4 hours or so it really wasn't tender at all, despite good flavour as a result of the veg, stock and herbs etc. I was thinking maybe I used too much salt perhaps, which then drew the moisture out. Or perhaps oven too low for that cooking time. I can tell you though that there was no way it would have benefited from further cooking as it was already tough.
So, I then bought a slow cooker and tried a few of the receipes on various PH threads. One, using lamb shanks was great- but then I saw the 'two greedy italians' programme where Gennaro does a topside (not a cut I thought would be suited) stew and it was literally fall-apart fantastic. Tried it last night, and same usual technique- browning the meat off on a high heat for not too long, then assemble the other components. checked it after the 2 hours (yes, I thought not long enough either but that's what he said) and no way was it tender at all. After 4 hours on medium setting it was slightly tender, but again, nothing like Gennaros. Check this meat porn out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HqqsIj9X9-o&t=...
I'm getting a bit pissed off with the lack of success- so, any help much appreciated. I want to persevere.
My Aga is a 4 oven jobbie, so top right is 220c, bottom right 180c, top left 110c and bottom left plate warmer/too cool probably.
Any joint i've done in the slow cooker has been a minimum of 8 hours often nearer 10.
Cheap silverside cuts or similar are fall apart tender at this point.
The stew i've got in today (cheap stew meat, half pint stock, garlic, onion, carrot, chilli flakes, seasoning) went on at 10am - we'll eat about 7.
Cheap silverside cuts or similar are fall apart tender at this point.
The stew i've got in today (cheap stew meat, half pint stock, garlic, onion, carrot, chilli flakes, seasoning) went on at 10am - we'll eat about 7.
Thanks Dan. My problem is that even after 4 hours (say), it's already tough- and I've tried low temperature, higher temperature and don't seem to be able to get it right. Maybe I put it in my electric oven and take any guessing about temperature out of it.
Could of course be not using something with enough fat?
Could of course be not using something with enough fat?
nutcase said:
Thanks Dan. My problem is that even after 4 hours (say), it's already tough- and I've tried low temperature, higher temperature and don't seem to be able to get it right. Maybe I put it in my electric oven and take any guessing about temperature out of it.
Could of course be not using something with enough fat?
It will get tender if you cook it for longerCould of course be not using something with enough fat?
nutcase said:
For instance, I tried a beef stew a while back and bought from our local butcher a kilo of chuck steak (they didn't have shin). I dusted with seasoned flour, seared over a high heat in batches (being careful not to overload the pan), deglazed using wine and then browned off veg. All then into a low oven (say 120c) after covering with stock and after 4 hours or so it really wasn't tender at all, despite good flavour as a result of the veg, stock and herbs etc.
For a similar "quick and easy" sunday meal (albeit with 500g of meat), I do similar but would cook it at 180c for 3.5 hours, so I think more heat or more time is needed.nutcase said:
For instance, I tried a beef stew a while back and bought from our local butcher a kilo of chuck steak (they didn't have shin). I dusted with seasoned flour, seared over a high heat in batches (being careful not to overload the pan), deglazed using wine and then browned off veg. All then into a low oven (say 120c) after covering with stock and after 4 hours or so it really wasn't tender at all, despite good flavour as a result of the veg, stock and herbs etc. I was thinking maybe I used too much salt perhaps, which then drew the moisture out. Or perhaps oven too low for that cooking time. I can tell you though that there was no way it would have benefited from further cooking as it was already tough.
I cook shin overnight on low (10-12 hrs) & it's falling apart tender. I leave it with all the gristle & connective tissue so once the butcher slices it, I then just cut it into 2 inch chunks, dust it in seasoned flour & brown well & then throw it into the cooker pot with everything else for the stew.I recently acquired one of those new Heston Blumenthal by Sage Fast Slow Pro cookers (quite a title). It's basically a mix of a pressure cooker and a slow cooker. It's fantastic for (fast) slow cooking. Pulled pork takes 40 minutes and is indistinguishable from the 8hr version. I tried a cheap cut of beef in it and after an hour I had to gently lift it out as anything more robust was just pulling the meat apart.
At £200ish they aren't cheap but I would definitely recommend one. I've barely scratched the surface of what it's capable of too.
http://www.lakeland.co.uk/71025/Sage-The-Fast-Slow...
At £200ish they aren't cheap but I would definitely recommend one. I've barely scratched the surface of what it's capable of too.
http://www.lakeland.co.uk/71025/Sage-The-Fast-Slow...
In addition to the above 8+ hour rule for a slow cooker (as opposed to oven/hob), I would recommend being careful with the amount of liquid you cook in - literally halve the amount for a slow cooker.
Remember carrots, onions, celery, tomatoes etc. all contain lots of water so if you don't hold back on the stock then you will end up with a very watery gravy which then needs reducing.
Slow cookers don't evaporate anywhere near as quickly as oven or hob cooking.
Remember carrots, onions, celery, tomatoes etc. all contain lots of water so if you don't hold back on the stock then you will end up with a very watery gravy which then needs reducing.
Slow cookers don't evaporate anywhere near as quickly as oven or hob cooking.
SHutchinson said:
I recently acquired one of those new Heston Blumenthal by Sage Fast Slow Pro cookers (quite a title). It's basically a mix of a pressure cooker and a slow cooker. It's fantastic for (fast) slow cooking. Pulled pork takes 40 minutes and is indistinguishable from the 8hr version. I tried a cheap cut of beef in it and after an hour I had to gently lift it out as anything more robust was just pulling the meat apart.
At £200ish they aren't cheap but I would definitely recommend one. I've barely scratched the surface of what it's capable of too.
http://www.lakeland.co.uk/71025/Sage-The-Fast-Slow...
Or just get an Instant Pot which does exactly the same but without the celebrity chef endorsement, which means it costs half as much...At £200ish they aren't cheap but I would definitely recommend one. I've barely scratched the surface of what it's capable of too.
http://www.lakeland.co.uk/71025/Sage-The-Fast-Slow...
www.amazon.co.uk/Instant-Pot-Programmable-Electric...
calibrax said:
SHutchinson said:
I recently acquired one of those new Heston Blumenthal by Sage Fast Slow Pro cookers (quite a title). It's basically a mix of a pressure cooker and a slow cooker. It's fantastic for (fast) slow cooking. Pulled pork takes 40 minutes and is indistinguishable from the 8hr version. I tried a cheap cut of beef in it and after an hour I had to gently lift it out as anything more robust was just pulling the meat apart.
At £200ish they aren't cheap but I would definitely recommend one. I've barely scratched the surface of what it's capable of too.
http://www.lakeland.co.uk/71025/Sage-The-Fast-Slow...
Or just get an Instant Pot which does exactly the same but without the celebrity chef endorsement, which means it costs half as much...At £200ish they aren't cheap but I would definitely recommend one. I've barely scratched the surface of what it's capable of too.
http://www.lakeland.co.uk/71025/Sage-The-Fast-Slow...
www.amazon.co.uk/Instant-Pot-Programmable-Electric...
SHutchinson said:
It was a gift to me, so pretty hard to beat for value. I agree though, if it was my hard-earned I'd probably look at cheaper alternatives. I just don't have any experience of them so couldn't stand by their performance.
That's a very nice gift to get! 
I've had my Instant Pot about two years (it was also a gift), and I still use it several times a week, unlike many other kitchen "gadgets" I've owned. Great for knocking up a quick casserole.
nutcase said:
This thread definitely needs photos of results...
I'm going to buy a big pork shoulder and try pulled pork tonight with a BBQ sauce
I didn't take any photos of the process, but I'm sure you can imagine it. Also, I didn't spend any time dressing the actual end product because it was just a mid-week supper that I knocked up in 50 minutes or so. But, here's my pork, in its pulled state. Served on a bed of supermarket own brand tortilla chips and carelessly drizzled with various condiments I dragged from the fridge.I'm going to buy a big pork shoulder and try pulled pork tonight with a BBQ sauce
SHutchinson said:
I didn't take any photos of the process, but I'm sure you can imagine it. Also, I didn't spend any time dressing the actual end product because it was just a mid-week supper that I knocked up in 50 minutes or so. But, here's my pork, in its pulled state. Served on a bed of supermarket own brand tortilla chips and carelessly drizzled with various condiments I dragged from the fridge.
Oof, drool.Mobile Chicane said:
The problem lies in the meat you're choosing. For slow cooking, the gristlier and tougher the meat, the more succulent the result once it all melts into an unctuous savouriness. Shoulder, shin and cheek are the cuts to go for.
And tails 
I turned this lot...
Into this...
Edited by HarryFlatters on Friday 26th February 08:23
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