How long would it take ?
Discussion
To train the average person, from zero experience, to get in, start-up, take off, do a circuit in say a 737 and land it safely.
Not talking full on pilot training, navigation, emergency procedures, certification or anything like that, just the bare minimum to operate the aircraft to take it "round the block" so to speak ?
Obviously, that isn't going to happen outside a simulator but just interested.
Not talking full on pilot training, navigation, emergency procedures, certification or anything like that, just the bare minimum to operate the aircraft to take it "round the block" so to speak ?
Obviously, that isn't going to happen outside a simulator but just interested.
I guess it really depends on the definition of "average person" and if they have any concept of the constraints of flight, lift, thrust etc or if they are a complete muppet with no experience of controllinga vehicle for example but at a guess, i'd say its possible within fifty hours split between classroom and sim time and given a very good instructor.
If you substitute 'Cessna 152' for Boeing 737, and assume a responsible training organization, 12 to 15 hours. With an irresponsible organization, it could be done in less - but they probably wouldn't have covered the things they should have covered before letting you go solo (such as forced landings, stall recovery etc). A good instructor will have spent 2 - 3 hours on stall awareness and recovery alone before even thinking about letting you go solo.
DavidJG said:
If you substitute 'Cessna 152' for Boeing 737, and assume a responsible training organization, 12 to 15 hours. With an irresponsible organization, it could be done in less - but they probably wouldn't have covered the things they should have covered before letting you go solo (such as forced landings, stall recovery etc). A good instructor will have spent 2 - 3 hours on stall awareness and recovery alone before even thinking about letting you go solo.
Possibly a bit longer as there are a few more systems on a 737 than a C152 plus you would need lessons on asymmetric flight so you could handle the aircraft on one engine if needs be. I went solo after 13 hrs 40 mins on a Cessna 150 (some of that time was 'lost' time due to having to hold at the end of downwind) so the actual time to learn was a little less.I'd go with a more generous estimate 15-20 hours on something far more complex depending on how quickly the individual picked it up.
J4CKO said:
To train the average person, from zero experience, to get in, start-up, take off, do a circuit in say a 737 and land it safely.
Not talking full on pilot training, navigation, emergency procedures, certification or anything like that, just the bare minimum to operate the aircraft to take it "round the block" so to speak ?
Obviously, that isn't going to happen outside a simulator but just interested.
If the person is expected to "to get in, start-up, take off, do a circuit in say a 737 and land it safely" (emphasis added) without any input from anyone else on the flightdeck, I would say it would take at least a few months of extremely intensive training. A very average person might take longer. And a large proportion of people plucked at random off the street would be incapable no matter how much training they received. Landing an aircraft like a 737 takes a whole lot of judgement and skill and that doesn't come overnight. Not talking full on pilot training, navigation, emergency procedures, certification or anything like that, just the bare minimum to operate the aircraft to take it "round the block" so to speak ?
Obviously, that isn't going to happen outside a simulator but just interested.
PanzerCommander said:
DavidJG said:
If you substitute 'Cessna 152' for Boeing 737, and assume a responsible training organization, 12 to 15 hours. With an irresponsible organization, it could be done in less - but they probably wouldn't have covered the things they should have covered before letting you go solo (such as forced landings, stall recovery etc). A good instructor will have spent 2 - 3 hours on stall awareness and recovery alone before even thinking about letting you go solo.
Possibly a bit longer as there are a few more systems on a 737 than a C152 plus you would need lessons on asymmetric flight so you could handle the aircraft on one engine if needs be. I went solo after 13 hrs 40 mins on a Cessna 150 (some of that time was 'lost' time due to having to hold at the end of downwind) so the actual time to learn was a little less.I'd go with a more generous estimate 15-20 hours on something far more complex depending on how quickly the individual picked it up.
Obviously it would never happen, but speaking as a flight instructor and ex-73 pilot, then I reckon if you had someone with a bit of aptitude and you concentrated on simply training them in a monkey see/monkey do way, then you could do it in around 10 hrs and may be even a bit less.
A 737 is a very easy aircraft to fly, as are all modern(ish in the 73's case) aircraft. If you only taught stick and rudder stuff and ignored everything else, then it could be done quite quickly. I wouldn't say they were actually flying the aircraft though, just doing that very specific thing.
A 737 is a very easy aircraft to fly, as are all modern(ish in the 73's case) aircraft. If you only taught stick and rudder stuff and ignored everything else, then it could be done quite quickly. I wouldn't say they were actually flying the aircraft though, just doing that very specific thing.
Trophy Husband said:
Derren Brown got that kiddy to fly and land one on his show with no training. OK he was in a simulator but he didn't know he was!
I watched that show recently and it was utter b
ks! The guy "flying" was barely working the yoke let alone all the other controls like rudders,flaps, trim, differential brakes, reverse thrust etc. I can't fly but even I could see that someone else in the simulator in the control booth was really doing 95% of the flying. Even with that said hypnosis in itself is also beyond crap, the show was TV entertainment and nothing more, had that have been real it would have been a 100% loss of everyone on board!I was thinking it would be a number of hours to operate, rather than fly the plane properly.
I suppose it could be tested, stick aforementioned average person in a full on simulator, i.e. not a PC one and train them up, I am thinking that with the proper professional sims that if you can do it in one of those, then going it in the actual aircraft would be pretty much the same (that being the point of them), just with greater opportunities for death and destruction.
I suppose it could be tested, stick aforementioned average person in a full on simulator, i.e. not a PC one and train them up, I am thinking that with the proper professional sims that if you can do it in one of those, then going it in the actual aircraft would be pretty much the same (that being the point of them), just with greater opportunities for death and destruction.
It would certainly be interesting to bring someone with a just crash course of handful of hours on the sim and send them up the steps of the $90M jet and as you shut the door behind them wish them all the best. Their heart would be pounding so hard they wouldn't be able to see or hear. If they managed to get the thing started and taxiing I'd be surprised.
JuniorD said:
It would certainly be interesting to bring someone with just a crash course of handful of hours on the sim and send them up the steps of the $90M jet and as you shut the door behind them wish them all the best. Their heart would be pounding so hard they wouldn't be able to see or hear. If they managed to get the thing started and taxiing I'd be surprised.
Is that the correct phrase to use in this instance? Shouldn't it be a non-crash course?https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpqr76U8vhM
Flippin eck, the sims have improved since I last looked, how far off the reality is this ?
Flippin eck, the sims have improved since I last looked, how far off the reality is this ?
PanzerCommander said:
DavidJG said:
If you substitute 'Cessna 152' for Boeing 737, and assume a responsible training organization, 12 to 15 hours. With an irresponsible organization, it could be done in less - but they probably wouldn't have covered the things they should have covered before letting you go solo (such as forced landings, stall recovery etc). A good instructor will have spent 2 - 3 hours on stall awareness and recovery alone before even thinking about letting you go solo.
Possibly a bit longer as there are a few more systems on a 737 than a C152 plus you would need lessons on asymmetric flight so you could handle the aircraft on one engine if needs be. I went solo after 13 hrs 40 mins on a Cessna 150 (some of that time was 'lost' time due to having to hold at the end of downwind) so the actual time to learn was a little less.I'd go with a more generous estimate 15-20 hours on something far more complex depending on how quickly the individual picked it up.
DavidJG said:
Did you learn at Coventry by any chance? I did, and we eventually decided to do circuits at either Leicester or Wellesbourne, as the transit time was less than the time spent orbiting downwind waiting for 737s to arrive / depart.
Currently learning at Humberside, just the mock test and the actual test to do now 
Its mainly the KLM Cityhopper (Fokker 70) that causes me to orbit if I am doing circuit training, or many helicopters that arrive and depart, but I managed 10 circuits last week without being interrupted
Edited by PanzerCommander on Tuesday 1st March 14:18
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