Discussion
I realise there is probably a thread in NPE, but I'm sure it is full of plenty of hyperbole exaggerated by Dailymail readers...
So on a business footing what do people think?
In a good thing?
Out a good thing?
My own view is that it's hard to form a view as no-where are going to get an unbiased opinion, and on that basis I prefer the devil that I know.
So on a business footing what do people think?
In a good thing?
Out a good thing?
My own view is that it's hard to form a view as no-where are going to get an unbiased opinion, and on that basis I prefer the devil that I know.
From a layman's viewpoint as I have been wondering myself but watched some of the debates recently:
1. They say (BMW for example) that us being out of it is bad for them and being able to move staff resources around but in reality this is not really true as it happens all the time within/outside of and into/out of the EU.
2. Things will cost more etc. They MAY but until we negotiate our direct agreements no-one knows but everyone wants to keep on trading so there's unlikely to be anything prohibitive for us. Besides, Norway, Iceland, etc do it and they are very small compared to the Uk
3. The UK is the worlds 5th largest economy. Why wouldn't the EU countries still be keen to trade with us on favourable terms?
4. Our laws are our own, we don't have to do what the EU says if we leave.
5. We don't have to subsidise poorer EU states if we leave.
Not sure of the benefits tbh....
1. They say (BMW for example) that us being out of it is bad for them and being able to move staff resources around but in reality this is not really true as it happens all the time within/outside of and into/out of the EU.
2. Things will cost more etc. They MAY but until we negotiate our direct agreements no-one knows but everyone wants to keep on trading so there's unlikely to be anything prohibitive for us. Besides, Norway, Iceland, etc do it and they are very small compared to the Uk
3. The UK is the worlds 5th largest economy. Why wouldn't the EU countries still be keen to trade with us on favourable terms?
4. Our laws are our own, we don't have to do what the EU says if we leave.
5. We don't have to subsidise poorer EU states if we leave.
Not sure of the benefits tbh....
My thoughts are that the EU is ultimately heading for oblivion and so we should get out. As other people have said if we were to leave it doesn't mean things would change straight away but having the knowledge of being able to tailor laws/spending etc to our own needs will satisfy a great many. The thing that alot of us forget is that we are an island which can have it's advantages during turbulent times.
I really don't know enough about all this, seems terrbily arbitrary:
We are in the EU but have a different currency and are required to have passports to travel to France.
We do have to have some of their laws like weights and measures for veg.
But we don't have to have some of their ... laws like weights and measures???? signposts in miles and car speedos in mph.
We also don't get the speed 'limits' of the Autobahn forced onto our motorways.
I have no doubt the list goes on.
So if all this is a pick and choose what the EU 'forces' the UK to do and other countries such as Switzerland and Norway or even the USA don't seem to have any bother despite not having such big economical weight what's the big deal?
I haven't found any evidence of a universal law that says trade deals MUST change if you leave the EU.
Please keep your answers simple!
We are in the EU but have a different currency and are required to have passports to travel to France.
We do have to have some of their laws like weights and measures for veg.
But we don't have to have some of their ... laws like weights and measures???? signposts in miles and car speedos in mph.
We also don't get the speed 'limits' of the Autobahn forced onto our motorways.
I have no doubt the list goes on.
So if all this is a pick and choose what the EU 'forces' the UK to do and other countries such as Switzerland and Norway or even the USA don't seem to have any bother despite not having such big economical weight what's the big deal?
I haven't found any evidence of a universal law that says trade deals MUST change if you leave the EU.
Please keep your answers simple!
Gnits said:
I haven't found any evidence of a universal law that says trade deals MUST change if you leave the EU.
Quite so. Supply and demand is the main driver, but countries can impose tariffs for various reasons, eg to protect their own trades or out of politics or spite. We seem to have forgotten how many British industries the EU has screwed, not least agriculture, and wiped out fishing.Much of what we buy comes from China - and I don't recall them being in the EU (yet).
When Cameron was trying to argue with 27 different leaders to get what he wanted, and of course failing, I thought - 'if we left the EU, you wouldn't need to go through this, you could just do it'.
Ultimately a free trade agreement if we left would end up on similar terms to the EFTA/EEA agreement the EU holds with Norway this wouldn't really save the country much if anything https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norway%E2%80%93Europ...
In terms of selling products or services into the EU then UK business would still have to comply with the EU standards and legislation, EU states selling into the UK raises a more complex question if we would choose to follow EU standards internally or define our own.
In defining our own industry would actually do worse as there would be two sets of costs to incorporate one for the domestic market and second for export to the larger EU market (then a third for export to the US). EU based manufacturers would inevitably push for the UK to adopt EU standards as part of any free trade agreement anyway.
There is an unanswered question of if a free trade agreement will require Schengen as currently all free trade / internal market states apart from Ireland and the UK are also within Schengen including Norway and Switzerland. Considering the number of migrants that consider the UK as their preferred final destination it would be interests of many EU states not least France to force Schengen as a condition of a free trade / internal market agreement.
Sometimes the devil you know is less bad than the one you do not.
In terms of selling products or services into the EU then UK business would still have to comply with the EU standards and legislation, EU states selling into the UK raises a more complex question if we would choose to follow EU standards internally or define our own.
In defining our own industry would actually do worse as there would be two sets of costs to incorporate one for the domestic market and second for export to the larger EU market (then a third for export to the US). EU based manufacturers would inevitably push for the UK to adopt EU standards as part of any free trade agreement anyway.
There is an unanswered question of if a free trade agreement will require Schengen as currently all free trade / internal market states apart from Ireland and the UK are also within Schengen including Norway and Switzerland. Considering the number of migrants that consider the UK as their preferred final destination it would be interests of many EU states not least France to force Schengen as a condition of a free trade / internal market agreement.
Sometimes the devil you know is less bad than the one you do not.
b0rk said:
if we left... wouldn't really save the country much if anything
And we pay the EU how many billions a year to be a member?b0rk said:
In terms of selling products or services into the EU then UK business would still have to comply with the EU standards and legislation, EU states selling into the UK raises a more complex question if we would choose to follow EU standards internally or define our own.
In defining our own industry would actually do worse as there would be two sets of costs to incorporate one for the domestic market and second for export to the larger EU market (then a third for export to the US). EU based manufacturers would inevitably push for the UK to adopt EU standards as part of any free trade agreement anyway.
Any exporter selling to another country has to meet the requirements of the importer. As our standards are the same they can stay the same. No big deal. But if the EU later wants a cocktail umbrella pinned to every product we can ship them with cocktail umbrellas pinned on them.In defining our own industry would actually do worse as there would be two sets of costs to incorporate one for the domestic market and second for export to the larger EU market (then a third for export to the US). EU based manufacturers would inevitably push for the UK to adopt EU standards as part of any free trade agreement anyway.
b0rk said:
There is an unanswered question of if a free trade agreement will require Schengen as currently all free trade / internal market states apart from Ireland and the UK are also within Schengen including Norway and Switzerland. Considering the number of migrants that consider the UK as their preferred final destination it would be interests of many EU states not least France to force Schengen as a condition of a free trade / internal market agreement.
Schengen has just been proved most splendidly to be a disaster. It was set up so honest Europeans could trot about without passports, not to cope with 1,000,000 illegal immigrants from the Middle East and Africa. The idea that EU countries could 'force' Schengen on a non-member is quite ridiculous. If France would really consider saying 'If you want us to buy your lamb you must take 100,000 illegal immigrants' they should be ashamed of such blackmail. It's their fault they're in France at all!
b0rk said:
Sometimes the devil you know is less bad than the one you do not.
And that is why GB will vote to stay in and keep getting its butt reamed until the EU finally implodes.On the 'devil you know' angle, it's interesting to reflect that in 1971 the people of this country, albeit (mis)led by pro-Europe PM Ted Heath, voted to leave the 'devil' they knew (essentially the Commonwealth, former Britons with the same language and culture) and sign up to the devil they didn't - a group of disparate countries separated by language and culture, the only plus being that they were closer and wouldn't it be nice to go to France without a passport... they said.
Managed to escape the UK/EU 16 years ago whilst Blair (shudder) was PM.
My first vote ever was in the 1975 referendum, voted to stay in.
If I was there now (big sigh of relief I'm not), I would vote to come out. The "IN" crowd seem to be trying to scare people - there are many countries round the world not in the EU who seem to survive - so would the UK.
It's the arrogance of the IN crowd I find so patronising.
My first vote ever was in the 1975 referendum, voted to stay in.
If I was there now (big sigh of relief I'm not), I would vote to come out. The "IN" crowd seem to be trying to scare people - there are many countries round the world not in the EU who seem to survive - so would the UK.
It's the arrogance of the IN crowd I find so patronising.
The original Nick the Greek said:
focus on the economics
Really worth a watch: https://youtu.be/leKEUT1TiLUDragsterRR said:
Also worth noting that the EU after an in vote won't be the devil we know.
It will be the EU that includes a Britain where the populus has voted to be part of it.
That will alter our bargaining position in the future I think.
This!! How do you think D. Cameron's recent requests would have been heard if we had already voted to stay IN. He would have been laughed out of the room by all 27 other EU members!It will be the EU that includes a Britain where the populus has voted to be part of it.
That will alter our bargaining position in the future I think.
I understand that in the 70s, our trade export to the EU was 75% and now it's more like 40% as we trade more extensively with China and the US. I feel I'm leaning towards the out at the moment but don't yet know enough to make the full choice. What I am fed up with are the EU bureaucrats being involved with daft rules and regulations such as how curved a banana must be and what grade of bog paper we wipe our arses with. We have 1/28 of the seats in Europe but we pay 1/5 of the budget which seems entirely wrong albeit I know as a stronger economy we shoulder a larger burden. On the flip side, there are the good things such as free movement of travel and work. I have no issue whatsoever with anyone that wishes to come and work here as long as they can support themselves and positively contribute, not be a burden. We have to remember we are a small island with finite space so we simply can't absorb migration in as well as the likes of France or Germany. I also like the little benefits the EU are pushign through such as the abolition of international roaming charges for mobile phones across Europe that's coming in to name one example.
Ideally, I'd like to see us remain in the EU but on a significantly changed basis. I would like a lot of our sovereignty to be returned and for the EU to be about work and trade, not trying to morph into the United States of Europe with everything centralised which is, I'm sure, where the hardest Eurocrats would like us to be.
Ideally, I'd like to see us remain in the EU but on a significantly changed basis. I would like a lot of our sovereignty to be returned and for the EU to be about work and trade, not trying to morph into the United States of Europe with everything centralised which is, I'm sure, where the hardest Eurocrats would like us to be.
Gassing Station | Business | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff