Advice needed! TUSCAN vs SAG
Discussion
Hi guys!
My son has found himself in a very pretty predicament (the lucky bugger)
He currently owns a 2003 Tuscan mk1 with a full FFF2 engine rebuild and a few other goodies, he purchased this just under 2 years ago and is now either hankering for a TUSCAN 2s or a Sag!!
The main difference for me is the massive price gap.
Are the Sags worth the difference?
What are people's expectations on future sag prices with the new cars coming out, do you feel they will carry on increasing. As much as a pride and joy it will be for him to drive he wants that large sum of money as safe as possible. What's your take on values on both please.
And Before we go out to look at a few beasties what differences should we really look/feel out for in the driving in the driving department between the sag and the Tuscan 2s?
For me I'll stick to my big noisy 30 year old beast!
Cheers guys much appreciated!!
My son has found himself in a very pretty predicament (the lucky bugger)
He currently owns a 2003 Tuscan mk1 with a full FFF2 engine rebuild and a few other goodies, he purchased this just under 2 years ago and is now either hankering for a TUSCAN 2s or a Sag!!
The main difference for me is the massive price gap.
Are the Sags worth the difference?
What are people's expectations on future sag prices with the new cars coming out, do you feel they will carry on increasing. As much as a pride and joy it will be for him to drive he wants that large sum of money as safe as possible. What's your take on values on both please.
And Before we go out to look at a few beasties what differences should we really look/feel out for in the driving in the driving department between the sag and the Tuscan 2s?
For me I'll stick to my big noisy 30 year old beast!
Cheers guys much appreciated!!
IMHO
The Sag, every day of the week. The looks and the extra 50bhp win it for me. Plus the fact it won't lose value. Saying that, neither should the Tuscan.
But it also depends on whether you prefer a convertible/targa or not.
Either way, enjoy the hunt, try lots of cars and keep us updated
I presume you've seen this vid from Fifith Gear!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaZnYEjBk1I
The Sag, every day of the week. The looks and the extra 50bhp win it for me. Plus the fact it won't lose value. Saying that, neither should the Tuscan.
But it also depends on whether you prefer a convertible/targa or not.
Either way, enjoy the hunt, try lots of cars and keep us updated
I presume you've seen this vid from Fifith Gear!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yaZnYEjBk1I
Big differences shown on that video, Tuscan rolls like a boat compared!
Definitely prefer the targa roof hence we narrowed it down to the Tuscan 2s and not the mk3 convertible.
I've seen the Sag for sale with the 4.5litre from TVR power, if only that was cascade purple!!
Were the Sags less prone to engine failures as being the latest off the line, just In case we can't find one with a rebuild
Thank you for the input
Definitely prefer the targa roof hence we narrowed it down to the Tuscan 2s and not the mk3 convertible.
I've seen the Sag for sale with the 4.5litre from TVR power, if only that was cascade purple!!
Were the Sags less prone to engine failures as being the latest off the line, just In case we can't find one with a rebuild
Thank you for the input
Short answer is yes, the Sag is worth it.
I have a Mk1 Tuscan and a Sag and while there is a lot in common, the Sag is a much better drive. As for values, both are rising and I see no reason for that to stop for the best examples. There was a time when people doubted Sag's would reach £40K used, now look at them.
As for the new car affecting values – just look at other marques where desirable top condition used models far exceed the cost of the new cars. Don’t expect an instant return though, especially if buying from a dealer, but look after it and it will appreciate in time.
I have a Mk1 Tuscan and a Sag and while there is a lot in common, the Sag is a much better drive. As for values, both are rising and I see no reason for that to stop for the best examples. There was a time when people doubted Sag's would reach £40K used, now look at them.
As for the new car affecting values – just look at other marques where desirable top condition used models far exceed the cost of the new cars. Don’t expect an instant return though, especially if buying from a dealer, but look after it and it will appreciate in time.
To the op, handling wise comparing both models as standard from the factory I understand there would be no comparison, surprisingly so given the general commonality of components. I can certainly confirm that my 2S was awful when first obtained, mostly due to the cheap hedgefinder shocks they originally fitted to most of them. All Sagaris had properly set up Bilsteins I believe, which was the key difference.
However, a stock 2S could/can be made to really work for a couple of grand (Nitron shocks or equivalent, plus a day at centre gravity or equivalent) and even better with some wheels with correct offsets and decent rubber (another couple of grand) so factor at least the former if the car is standard i.e. with the crap shocks.
I have been told (from people whose opinion I respect and trust) that this would have the models roughly and subjectively at parity in general use, but with the Sagaris more predictable on the limit i.e. on track, due to i) the wider track created by different suspension mounting points, and ii) the fundamental fact that the hard top makes the platform a little stiffer. I have only driven a couple of Sagaris, and only on the road, so I have to take people's word for this.
...hope that helps pre-test drives!
However, a stock 2S could/can be made to really work for a couple of grand (Nitron shocks or equivalent, plus a day at centre gravity or equivalent) and even better with some wheels with correct offsets and decent rubber (another couple of grand) so factor at least the former if the car is standard i.e. with the crap shocks.
I have been told (from people whose opinion I respect and trust) that this would have the models roughly and subjectively at parity in general use, but with the Sagaris more predictable on the limit i.e. on track, due to i) the wider track created by different suspension mounting points, and ii) the fundamental fact that the hard top makes the platform a little stiffer. I have only driven a couple of Sagaris, and only on the road, so I have to take people's word for this.
...hope that helps pre-test drives!
Edited by spartridge on Sunday 6th March 19:32
Forget the way they "drive", these cars are very set up sensitive so two of the same model can be miles apart. Remember that they are basically the same car, although the track is wider on the Sag and the roll centre is lower as well so yes it should, handle better but ask any one who has a Tam or 350 how they get on.
But to answer the question I prefer the way my MK 1 drives compared to my Sag. The Sag is stock and straight and has never scared me. The Tuscan has been lowered and had some other don't try this at home mods but it is just so predictable, even when I mega hang on the brakes it doesn't squirrel or ditch dive. I think because the Tuscan is replaceable, there is only one Saggy, I have explored the limit and got to know it. The only thing left to change is the diff as I can feel this working when under pressure whereas the Hydrotrak on the Sag is clearly better.
The roof off and rear window out is another bonus but the Sag does pull the crowds so it's a hard call.
This sounds like an itch to me so guess ignore what we all write and enjoy scratching while you can!
J
But to answer the question I prefer the way my MK 1 drives compared to my Sag. The Sag is stock and straight and has never scared me. The Tuscan has been lowered and had some other don't try this at home mods but it is just so predictable, even when I mega hang on the brakes it doesn't squirrel or ditch dive. I think because the Tuscan is replaceable, there is only one Saggy, I have explored the limit and got to know it. The only thing left to change is the diff as I can feel this working when under pressure whereas the Hydrotrak on the Sag is clearly better.
The roof off and rear window out is another bonus but the Sag does pull the crowds so it's a hard call.
This sounds like an itch to me so guess ignore what we all write and enjoy scratching while you can!
J
spartridge said:
PGNCerbera said:
extra 50bhp
Sorry to be a pedant, but power outputs of stock Tuscan 2S vs stock Sagaris are ostensibly the same given the core drivetrain is the same. The former possibly negligibly higher due to exhaust config.Edited by spartridge on Sunday 6th March 20:19
I have been toying with selling my mk2 S and changing to a Sag for some time, but now that price difference has been extended, I just cannot justify the 20-25k difference. in essence, both can be made to drive fairly similar on the road. The Sag has more road presence, draws the crowds more, and has more kudos. The Tuscan has roof off/window out so provides a different experience, equally rewarding.. just different.
If he can afford either of them, then for me it would come down just to whether he likes driving with the roof off. If he doesn't then i'd get a Sag, as he'll enjoy that more as a Coupe, than he would the Tuscan.
I don't believe the Sag's have too much more headway to increase in price, but certainly even at 55-65 i doubt they will lose anything at all.
Mk2S Tuscan's are quite difficult to price at the moment, some selling for around £45k, some getting stuck and not selling even though they're closer to £35k. That makes it quite a difficult comparison as it'll depend on which Tuscan he can find and at what price.
If he can afford either of them, then for me it would come down just to whether he likes driving with the roof off. If he doesn't then i'd get a Sag, as he'll enjoy that more as a Coupe, than he would the Tuscan.
I don't believe the Sag's have too much more headway to increase in price, but certainly even at 55-65 i doubt they will lose anything at all.
Mk2S Tuscan's are quite difficult to price at the moment, some selling for around £45k, some getting stuck and not selling even though they're closer to £35k. That makes it quite a difficult comparison as it'll depend on which Tuscan he can find and at what price.
Edited by MrChips on Monday 7th March 10:21
Sagi Badger said:
Forget the way they "drive", these cars are very set up sensitive so two of the same model can be miles apart. Remember that they are basically the same car, although the track is wider on the Sag and the roll centre is lower as well so yes it should, handle better but ask any one who has a Tam or 350 how they get on.
But to answer the question I prefer the way my MK 1 drives compared to my Sag. The Sag is stock and straight and has never scared me. The Tuscan has been lowered and had some other don't try this at home mods but it is just so predictable, even when I mega hang on the brakes it doesn't squirrel or ditch dive. I think because the Tuscan is replaceable, there is only one Saggy, I have explored the limit and got to know it. The only thing left to change is the diff as I can feel this working when under pressure whereas the Hydrotrak on the Sag is clearly better.
The roof off and rear window out is another bonus but the Sag does pull the crowds so it's a hard call.
This sounds like an itch to me so guess ignore what we all write and enjoy scratching while you can!
J
Long live the Sag!But to answer the question I prefer the way my MK 1 drives compared to my Sag. The Sag is stock and straight and has never scared me. The Tuscan has been lowered and had some other don't try this at home mods but it is just so predictable, even when I mega hang on the brakes it doesn't squirrel or ditch dive. I think because the Tuscan is replaceable, there is only one Saggy, I have explored the limit and got to know it. The only thing left to change is the diff as I can feel this working when under pressure whereas the Hydrotrak on the Sag is clearly better.
The roof off and rear window out is another bonus but the Sag does pull the crowds so it's a hard call.
This sounds like an itch to me so guess ignore what we all write and enjoy scratching while you can!
J
It's NOT for sale! Period!
Having owned a Tuscan and then a T350 + another Mk1 Tuscan at the same time as owning my Sag its always been the Sag that I cannot seem to depart with..
You can tinker with the Tuscan and make them a dream to drive and when I first got in my T350 from my Tuscan I could not believe how different & sweet it handled.
However in my opinion its not the driving of the Sagaris but the privilege of owning a Sagaris.
Yes all TVR's turn heads and make you Grin but the Sagaris takes it to another level. Young and Old look in wonder and with respect as that menacing look from the front beautiful rear behind..
Nothing else is on the road like it and unlikely now ever will be going forward..
If you get one keep it and cherish it as there are only a limited few
As a good friend of mine once pointed out about my two cars in my present garage:
One has a continental look with good breeding and behaves herself with dignity and glamour the other is downright dirty and not to be messed with but will show you a real good time if you look after her…
Guess which one is the Sag and what I prefer…
You can tinker with the Tuscan and make them a dream to drive and when I first got in my T350 from my Tuscan I could not believe how different & sweet it handled.
However in my opinion its not the driving of the Sagaris but the privilege of owning a Sagaris.
Yes all TVR's turn heads and make you Grin but the Sagaris takes it to another level. Young and Old look in wonder and with respect as that menacing look from the front beautiful rear behind..
Nothing else is on the road like it and unlikely now ever will be going forward..
If you get one keep it and cherish it as there are only a limited few
As a good friend of mine once pointed out about my two cars in my present garage:
One has a continental look with good breeding and behaves herself with dignity and glamour the other is downright dirty and not to be messed with but will show you a real good time if you look after her…
Guess which one is the Sag and what I prefer…
SpeedBuzz said:
One has a continental look with good breeding and behaves herself with dignity and glamour the other is downright dirty and not to be messed with but will show you a real good time if you look after her…
Guess which one is the Sag and what I prefer…
LOL - I can never look at my Sag again in the same way after reading that!!Guess which one is the Sag and what I prefer…
PuffsBack said:
SpeedBuzz said:
One has a continental look with good breeding and behaves herself with dignity and glamour the other is downright dirty and not to be messed with but will show you a real good time if you look after her…
Guess which one is the Sag and what I prefer…
LOL - I can never look at my Sag again in the same way after reading that!!Guess which one is the Sag and what I prefer…
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