Never as fast in the winter.....

[E65Ross]

Something I've always experienced and that is that, in general, I'm never as quick in the winter as I am in the summer.

I've been training hard on the TT a lot over winter and I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that, for cycling, I'm probably in the best shape I've ever been.... Yet on the road I'm not really any quicker.... But I know I'm quicker now than I have been in any previous winter.

Does everyone else find this?

Now.... I always wrap up quite warm and of course there's the additional drag from having a jacket on, longer leggings (which are also more restrictive), it's colder so maybe muscles aren't as efficient and it takes longer to warm up..... I'm also running my crappy wheels and not my RS80s.

I'm not talking about being 2mph+ down but perhaps 0.5mph or so over a steady endurance ride.

As I said, I've absolutely no doubt I'm in currently the best shape I've ever been in for cycling, and I'll admit to not having really pushed hard on any commutes into work etc but my steady pace now in winter is roughly the same as last summer.

Have I just listed all the reasons.... Or are there any others?

Oh.... I'm also running the heaviest durano tyres.... And not the Michelin pro4 service course v2 tyres I have on the RS80s!

[astroarcadia]

I find the opposite.

A crisp winter day is ideal.

[SteveSteveson]

Other reasons:
Cold air is more dense, so more drag
Cold tyres and roads means more rolling resistance
Cold chain oil means more friction
All these things add up.

Most importantly for me at least, I am much more enthusiastic about being out when it's warm.

[E65Ross]

Found this..... Really interesting read

http://www.icebike.org/this-is-why-you-are-cycling...

I don't think that the speed differences are that great.... But if they are, it bodes well for my summer averages!

[Rouleur]

Muscles simply don't work efficiently in cold temperatures so you'll never be as fast as you are in summer

[okgo]

Rouleur said:

Muscles simply don't work efficiently in cold temperatures so you'll never be as fast as you are in summer

That is very much individual, I am as strong in winter as summer watts wise, the resulting speed of course is impacted for all the reasons noted above.

[E65Ross]

okgo said:

Rouleur said:

Muscles simply don't work efficiently in cold temperatures so you'll never be as fast as you are in summer

That is very much individual, I am as strong in winter as summer watts wise, the resulting speed of course is impacted for all the reasons noted above.

What sort of speed differences do you notice, okgo? I've not done any summer riding with the power meter and thus don't have any data to compare really, and clearly it takes quite aot of riding to get a meaningful data bank....

Would love to know what you're looking at. What about longer endurance rides on your own (if you do any.... Or are they all with a group?... Obviously the speed differences will be less when with a group).

What about % of speed difference? I'm guessing it'll be exponential.... Ie a 15mph summer rider will see a smaller % drop in speed than a 20mph summer rider?

Many thanks in advance

Edited by E65Ross on Monday 7th March 20:34

[Fastpedeller]

I'm about 2mph down compared to Summer. The wind over the last few rides has definitely slowed me down (too many beanz?)

[okgo]

E65Ross said:

What sort of speed differences do you notice, okgo? I've not done any summer riding with the power meter and thus don't have any data to compare really, and clearly it takes quite aot of riding to get a meaningful data bank....

Would love to know what you're looking at. What about longer endurance rides on your own (if you do any.... Or are they all with a group?... Obviously the speed differences will be less when with a group).

What about % of speed difference? I'm guessing it'll be exponential.... Ie a 15mph summer rider will see a smaller % drop in speed than a 20mph summer rider?

Many thanks in advance

Edited by E65Ross on Monday 7th March 20:34

For time trials it can be quite a lot, certainly around 30-60 seconds over a ten mile TT for example.

To be honest I don't generally take too much notice of average speed on rides as generally but most of the rides I do that are not social affairs are around 20 mph +- 2mph but in grotty winter wind and such I do notice more 18/19 stuff.

[E65Ross]

Fastpedeller said:

I'm about 2mph down compared to Summer. The wind over the last few rides has definitely slowed me down (too many beanz?)

I've been working really hard over the winter (bar about 6 weeks off due to illness and injury before Xmas and my FTP has gone up considerably since September when I first started using power (it's gone up by over 10%) and looking at my rides to work now I'm not that far off my summer times..... Even if I'm 1mph quicker in the summer I'll definitely be faster than I was last year.

When going out for steady rides by myself without pushing (just general endurance rides) I'd tend to average around 16.5mph over say 70 miles with say 4500ft of climb, the other day I did around 60 miles and still got over a 16 average with what felt like a similar sort of gentle effort (intensity factor was 0.68 I think) and that was also the day after doing a TOUGH session on the TT (which scored 169tss!)

So it bodes well for my summer speed.

[anonymous-user]

I'm much slower in winter normally. Asthma really gets on my nerves and I have grown to hate the cold. It's more how much you train and most people will find the excuses not to put the hours in when it's like this outside. The novelty of riding a few local hills in 1-3 degrees wore off pretty quickly! Luckily Zwift is making indoor riding more than bearable, doing ok so far.

[popeyewhite]

Rouleur said:

Muscles simply don't work efficiently in cold temperatures so you'll never be as fast as you are in summer

How cold are you talking? Less than than 3c on bare skin? Well yes, frostbite from windchill could be a problem.

For everyone else who is wearing the correct gear they should actually be a bit faster. Muscle efficiency is based on oxygen delivery - why should that be worse in denser air?

[anonymous-user]

popeyewhite said:

How cold are you talking? Less than than 3c on bare skin? Well yes, frostbite from windchill could be a problem.

For everyone else who is wearing the correct gear they should actually be a bit faster. Muscle efficiency is based on oxygen delivery - why should that be worse in denser air?

Lining up in a skinsuit when it's 3 deg C doesn't make many people faster, it's bloody miserable IMO. Surely drag is what counts and when the air is cold it is far more dense. Therefore like for like times, with everything else as a constant, will be slower as the temperature drops?

[popeyewhite]

yonex said:

Lining up in a skinsuit when it's 3 deg C doesn't make many people faster, it's bloody miserable IMO. Surely drag is what counts and when the air is cold it is far more dense. Therefore like for like times, with everything else as a constant, will be slower as the temperature drops?

I know nothing about aerodynamics, but I imagine drag would actually increase? I do know a bit about human physiology and how muscle works...and (unless it's extremely cold) in the cold more oxygen will be delivered to the muscle, making it more efficient. I guess the important metric here is exactly how cold are we talking? But you could well be correct with your like for like theory.

[E65Ross]

Muscles are less efficient when it's very cold. The sarcoplasm is thicker (liken it to engine oil being thicker when it's cold) and causes muscles to be less pliable/elastic.

I doubt it's a much of a factor once you've been cycling for a couple of miles and have long leggings on and a jacket etc.... But doing this makes you less aerodynamic....

[ewenm]

E65Ross said:

Muscles are less efficient when it's very cold. The sarcoplasm is thicker (liken it to engine oil being thicker when it's cold) and causes muscles to be less pliable/elastic.

I doubt it's a much of a factor once you've been cycling for a couple of miles and have long leggings on and a jacket etc.... But doing this makes you less aerodynamic....

Think back to your running days - it is always harder to get going and do fast sessions in the winter. I find when cycling my HR doesn't get as high (slower to warm up) as when running and the winter kit is heavier and slightly more restrictive than running winter kit. Rather than marginal gains, these are marginal losses.

[popeyewhite]

ewenm said:

Think back to your running days - it is always harder to get going and do fast sessions in the winter. I find when cycling my HR doesn't get as high (slower to warm up) as when running and the winter kit is heavier and slightly more restrictive than running winter kit. Rather than marginal gains, these are marginal losses.

Very marginal I would suggest. However there are also factors which limit performance in summer, such as your heartrate is higher as more blood has to be pumped to the extremities to allow for diaphoresis. Swings and roundabouts.

[E65Ross]

It will be interesting to see whether I see any gains by putting my summer wheels back on, which I'll be doing reasonably soon.

The RS80 C24 wheels aren't the best in the world but they're a massive step up from the rubbish fulcrum 7 wheels that I'm currently using.

That.... Plus the fact I'm using some durano tyres (the most puncture resistant tyres in the durano range) which weigh over 400g EACH! The RS80s are running Michelin pro4 service course V2 tyres, and they alone are around 200g less per tyre.... And have a lower rolling resistance.

Wonder how much more speed that'll give....?

[okgo]

Maybe 1mph.

I've won races on fulcrum 7's, they're actually alright.

[E65Ross]

okgo said:

Maybe 1mph.

I've won races on fulcrum 7's, they're actually alright.

That would be nice, I'm definitely not 1mph off my previous summer pace.... So having those wherls/tyres, less dense air and less clothing for drag I'm sure I'll see some good speeds this year (got me!)

Have a bit of a cold/sore throat today and yesterday so training is going to have to be put on hold.... It'll be gentle riding with nothing above FTP I suspect, maybe the odd burst, and no high TSS sessions until I'm better..... I've done running with a cold and if you train hard it only makes it worse