This may hurt my wallet.....

[DaveOrange]

but how much better is the 650S Spider over the 12C Spider?

I love my 12C but keep looking at the 650. For those of you that have had both, what would you say are the main differences and are they really noticeable in the real world?

[TISPKJ]

would love a 650 as I prefer the front if im honest, however at 50k to change that buys an awful lot of car / holiday / beer

[mb1]

Arrange a test drive and find out for yourself :-)

I have done it (the back to back comparison, not buying a 650 !) and did not find the 'substantial' improvement some on here will argue (I am sure our regular 650S lover will be on soon enough to tell you how much better it is...).
If you have the sports exhaust for example, it will be 'emotional' enough.......

Do like me, save a few quid and wait for the 650 replacement ;-)

[br d]

I think mb1 is about right here. I do have a 650S but haven't experienced the 12C. What I do know is that if hard bitten journos with years of experience say the improvements are negligible then I doubt that I would notice much under normal road driving. The styling might be a different matter, I do prefer the looks of the 650S but the 12C is still a very striking car, it's hardly boring to look at!

Drive one though, you may find the differences more pronounced and make the jump.

[Sarnie]

It's all about the cost to change.....yes it'll be newer, faster, may sound betterand have ceramics etc but I can't imagine me adding another £50k to £60k to my car for a 650s............I think the impact would be bigger for people jumping from other marques to the 650s.......Eg there seem to be a fair few recent 458 owners swapping over....

[RamboLambo]

Sarnie said:

It's all about the cost to change.....yes it'll be newer, faster, may sound betterand have ceramics etc but I can't imagine me adding another £50k to £60k to my car for a 650s............I think the impact would be bigger for people jumping from other marques to the 650s.......Eg there seem to be a fair few recent 458 owners swapping over....

Agree its probably easier to swallow price hike if you are not coming from a 12C. Because the 12C is so competent as a base car the improvement does not necessarily equate to the price difference

I've not owned both but have drove both back to back.
I originally went to buy a late 2013 Spider but could not quite agree a deal on the particular car in question but just before walking I had a drive in their 650s spider demo and was immediately and completely sold on the improvement McLaren had made just between the 2 cars.
Looks are subjective so discounting the fact I personally prefer the P1 style nose on the 650s what I did notice was an improved feel in handling and suspension. The steering was definitely a bit more weighty which I also like and at the same time if possible the car felt sharper.
The car also felt more responsive in all gears with the massive increase in torque 70NM and the sports exhaust certainly sounded more lively and louder than the equivalent 12C.
The ceramic brakes were the best I have ever driven and had good feel and modulation to them which is unusual.

I came from a 430 scuderia and felt the 12C was definitely less emotional whereas the 650s was definitely not missing any passion

I was so impressed with the improvements my budget crept up by £80k to buy a brand new 650S over the 18 month old 12C

I saw this after I bought my car and totally agree with Steve Sutcliffes summary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5h8cx9BGR8

Sorry to have just spent your money for you but you wont regret it

[Dblue]

I think the differences are limited having driven quite a few of each. I can't comment on the relative performance as in my drives both felt ballistic, the extra speed is gilding the lily frankly,
And the design is very similar so in most respects its a facelift not a new model ........But...

Every detail is better, the steering , the noise, the gear change (Quite a bit better) the doors of course. IRIS is much improved, the car is just lots better. So the question is, is it £50k better and the answer is no , probably not.

[isaldiri]

Only you can decide to be honest. People are always going to justify their own choice whether staying with the 12c or changing for a 650.

Personally I think the 650 feels built far more solidly any 12c which is the main reason why I might have been tempted to make the change. The gearbox is much slicker as well even if just software and the ride is considerably firmer in the normal modes whether good or bad and without the carbon tub thump. There is as well a bit more front end grip at speed but you need to be at track speeds to notice. Oh and the brake feel on ceramics is way better on the 650..

However, I really didn't like the quicker steering as it felt to me like the car started being too much like the 458 where the steering quickness made the car feel artificially nervous (exciting in journo speak). And it is only at the 675 that I felt the P1 face being grafted on the 12c looked correct as the 650 never looked 'right' to me and the other differences were not sufficient to overcome that..

Edited by isaldiri on Tuesday 15th March 23:57

[Rocco1]

RamboLambo said:

Agree its probably easier to swallow price hike if you are not coming from a 12C. Because the 12C is so competent as a base car the improvement does not necessarily equate to the price difference

I've not owned both but have drove both back to back.
I originally went to buy a late 2013 Spider but could not quite agree a deal on the particular car in question but just before walking I had a drive in their 650s spider demo and was immediately and completely sold on the improvement McLaren had made just between the 2 cars.
Looks are subjective so discounting the fact I personally prefer the P1 style nose on the 650s what I did notice was an improved feel in handling and suspension. The steering was definitely a bit more weighty which I also like and at the same time if possible the car felt sharper.
The car also felt more responsive in all gears with the massive increase in torque 70NM and the sports exhaust certainly sounded more lively and louder than the equivalent 12C.
The ceramic brakes were the best I have ever driven and had good feel and modulation to them which is unusual.

I came from a 430 scuderia and felt the 12C was definitely less emotional whereas the 650s was definitely not missing any passion

I was so impressed with the improvements my budget crept up by £80k to buy a brand new 650S over the 18 month old 12C

I saw this after I bought my car and totally agree with Steve Sutcliffes summary

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5h8cx9BGR8

Sorry to have just spent your money for you but you wont regret it

What colour is the 650S in the vid

[Sarnie]

Tarocco I think it's spelt??

[Rocco1]

Sarnie said:

Tarocco I think it's spelt??

Thank you
Hoping to be in one soon :-)

[DaveOrange]

Thanks all. I was expecting a lot more Lamboesque posts but in hindsight Paul probably has it right in saying that £50k can buy an awful lot of other things. Without tempting fate I think I will have a deal done on my 964RS in the next week or so and I was just wondering what to do with the funds before my wife gets any silly ideas

[mikey k]

I started looking at 12C spider, then used 650 spiders and ended up with an new built to spec 650 spider
Go drive both then decide how much "man maths" you want to apply

[chris coates]

I decided that i wanted the 12C spider because i felt the looks were more tied together and i could always 'trade up' later on if i felt i needed the benefits that the 650S gave. Having found a car with all the latest upgrades and carbon brakes the next jump is more likely to be the 650's replacement when that comes along .

[barchetta_boy]

Surely the gearbox improvements can be applied to the 12C retrospectively. I ask as a 12C owner.

[Dblue]

barchetta_boy said:

Surely the gearbox improvements can be applied to the 12C retrospectively. I ask as a 12C owner.

I can't see why not but I've not heard of it being done.The ceramics are much better on 650.If I was looking at a 12C I'd look for steels.

[Bispal]

barchetta_boy said:

Surely the gearbox improvements can be applied to the 12C retrospectively. I ask as a 12C owner.

I asked the same question to someone knowledgeable about these things. The response was that it can be but it will 'probably' invalidate your warranty. It seems to me that McL will upgrade the car when there is an reliability or safety issue but when it comes to upgrades that are enhancements that basically create a 650S with a 12C nose they don't like it, for obvious reasons they want you to trade your 12C for a 650S....probably. In a few years when there are independent dealers and warranties i am sure all the 'enhancements' will be available. That doesn't explain the 616bhp free upgrade though......

[barchetta_boy]

I think at the point when they did the 616bhp they were desperate to do something for early adopters in the teeth of quite a lukewarm press response.

Joel

[isaldiri]

It was more due to the early cars being plagued with constant electrical gremlins.