The Pensioner Vote
Discussion
The Tories seem to be going flat out to get the Pensioner Vote. They have already promised to increase the Basic State pension in line with earnings instead of prices, and now they are offering Money off council tax (1/2 the bill up to a maximum of £500 off).
It won't be enough for them to win the election though.
It won't be enough for them to win the election though.
They are considering whether or not to raise the thresholds on inheritance tax.
What they have basically promised is that over the next parliment if elected they would introduce some limited tax cuts, about 5Bn if I remember correctly, and that they would set out what these tax cuts would be closer to the election. They floated a number of ideas these tax cuts could be. Raising the threshold for stamp duty, inheritence tax etc were some of them.
Personally I feel raising the threshold for stamp duty is a more pressing concern. Since it effects young first time buyers rather than people who are already dead.
What they have basically promised is that over the next parliment if elected they would introduce some limited tax cuts, about 5Bn if I remember correctly, and that they would set out what these tax cuts would be closer to the election. They floated a number of ideas these tax cuts could be. Raising the threshold for stamp duty, inheritence tax etc were some of them.
Personally I feel raising the threshold for stamp duty is a more pressing concern. Since it effects young first time buyers rather than people who are already dead.
Interesting short term tactic.
With the burgeoning increase in pensioner numbers this is plainly insupportable for long. But since pensioners are the core of tory support then why not let your political enemies pay the bill for them.
I always thought that if you cant afford your housing then you should go somewhere cheaper. Considering that I will get f
k all when I get to retire then I have no sympathy.
With the burgeoning increase in pensioner numbers this is plainly insupportable for long. But since pensioners are the core of tory support then why not let your political enemies pay the bill for them.
I always thought that if you cant afford your housing then you should go somewhere cheaper. Considering that I will get f
k all when I get to retire then I have no sympathy.So once again a political party is promising the earth to get elected and will then slowly find 'that things are not quite as we thought' and the tax will go up again ...
Tell me one party (either colour) who've not done that in recent memory!
Do we always have to have the incoming party spending an entire parliament undoing what the other side did, not always for the greater good, but becayse 'they can'?
Tell me one party (either colour) who've not done that in recent memory!
Do we always have to have the incoming party spending an entire parliament undoing what the other side did, not always for the greater good, but becayse 'they can'?
planetdave said:
I always thought that if you cant afford your housing then you should go somewhere cheaper. Considering that I will get f
My parents paid 7k for their house,by the time they pay all the fees to sell it, they couldn't even buy a flat.
Would you suggest they make themselves homeless?
My Father worked damn hard for 60 years, my Mum also worked for many years contributing at the higher tax rate, they saved hard to enjoy a well earned retirement, instead they are left wondering if they should put the heating on or not.
Oh and just for good measure my Dad fought for our freedom.
PlanetDave said
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Interesting short term tactic.
With the burgeoning increase in pensioner numbers this is plainly insupportable for long. But since pensioners are the core of tory support then why not let your political enemies pay the bill for them.
I always thought that if you cant afford your housing then you should go somewhere cheaper. Considering that I will get fk all when I get to retire then I have no sympathy.
..............................................
The decision to link pensions to prices rather than earnings may prove to be the decision that was only sustainable POLITICALLY in the short term. See Labour's decision to introduce the minimum income guarentee when they came to power-thereby raising the incomes of those pensioners either too poor or too feckless to provide for themselves in their old age.
At least raising the basic pension has the advantage that it does not penalise saving.
As for the affordability argument I agree with you, Council Tax has the virtue of being one of the few taxes on wealth rather than income. To my mind if you are a pensioner couple living alone in a Band D etc home and you can't afford it, sell up and get somewhere smaller.
JagLover said:
As for the affordability argument I agree with you, Council Tax has the virtue of being one of the few taxes on wealth rather than income. To my mind if you are a pensioner couple living alone in a Band D etc home and you can't afford it, sell up and get somewhere smaller.
Smaller doesn't mean cheaper, my parents have spent 35 years in their home, they are part of a small community, my Father will be giving up driving this year, if they moved they would be surrounded by strangers, they are vulnerable and should at least be able to live the last few years of their lives in the home they worked hard to buy.
I fail to see how this policy is unsupportable.
The benefits system is the golden goose of the bone idle.
Hack that down to absolute subsistence living levels and the pensioners can get the benefits they deserve. There are very few people who cant dig a ditch.
Remember pensioners have paid a lifetimes tax to continue to get bugger all in their winter years...
The benefits system is the golden goose of the bone idle.
Hack that down to absolute subsistence living levels and the pensioners can get the benefits they deserve. There are very few people who cant dig a ditch.
Remember pensioners have paid a lifetimes tax to continue to get bugger all in their winter years...
JagLover said:
There might well be arguments that would justify special treatment for pensioners-and you make a persuasive case.
The problem is for every special exemption you make the burden falls more on more on the rest of us.
When my Dad was paying into the system, he was led to belive that the NI contrinution was being put aside for his retirement, however, we all now know that this was not the case.
My parents still pay tax on their savings,road tax, coucil tax, fuel tax etc, etc, upon death a very heft sum will be paid in inheritence tax, they have taken very little out of the system in over 80 years,but they have put a great deal in both in terms of money and personel sacrifice, once again I find myself going down the road of, if you haven't paid in, you can't take out.
I do not consider anyone who is a pensioner at this time a burden, however when I come to retire, I will be stood along side people who have never contributed in anyway, financial or otherwise, to society, it is those people who are the burden.
>> Edited by wedge girl on Wednesday 23 February 14:22
Really gets my blood up in teh current scheme peeps say if you can't afford it then sell up. Can we go back two paces first, why is the bloody council tax so high to begin with and why was it allowed to outstrip inflation by so much over so many years 
.
Besides.... it's not just pensioners that have a hard time with this fecking tax, I have a fair house and income. But the extorionate year on year increases, be they to subsidise the local authorities 'spending wish' or the central governments shortfall bothersme not. It is crippling joe average and is unsustainable IMHO.
Harry
. Besides.... it's not just pensioners that have a hard time with this fecking tax, I have a fair house and income. But the extorionate year on year increases, be they to subsidise the local authorities 'spending wish' or the central governments shortfall bothersme not. It is crippling joe average and is unsustainable IMHO.
Harry
Plotloss said
............................................
I fail to see how this policy is unsupportable.
The benefits system is the golden goose of the bone idle.
Hack that down to absolute subsistence living levels and the pensioners can get the benefits they deserve. There are very few people who cant dig a ditch.
Remember pensioners have paid a lifetimes tax to continue to get bugger all in their winter years...
If we could put the bone idle back to work there would be alot more money available for all of us pensioners included, but even in that situation why a specific council tax break rather than a rise in the basic pension-which would benefit all pensioners no matter what their council tax band.
Council Tax is becoming a hot political issue due to Labour using it as one of the biggest of their 'stealth' taxes, but I still find it preferable to alternatives proposed such as a local income tax-simply because it is a tax on accumulated wealth rather than income.
Plotloss said:
I fail to see how this policy is unsupportable.
The benefits system is the golden goose of the bone idle.
Hack that down to absolute subsistence living levels and the pensioners can get the benefits they deserve. There are very few people who cant dig a ditch.
Remember pensioners have paid a lifetimes tax to continue to get bugger all in their winter years...
I remember it every time I get paid. But when I eventually get to retire there will be a sparse working population. Worst of both worlds.
JagLover said:
If we could put the bone idle back to work there would be alot more money available for all of us pensioners included, but even in that situation why a specific council tax break rather than a rise in the basic pension-which would benefit all pensioners no matter what their council tax band.
Council Tax is becoming a hot political issue due to Labour using it as one of the biggest of their 'stealth' taxes, but I still find it preferable to alternatives proposed such as a local income tax-simply because it is a tax on accumulated wealth rather than income.
Personally speaking I favour a return to the community charge as that is ultimately the fairest way of handling the concept of local amenities...
JagLover said:
But then we would be back to riots in the streets again. To be seen to be fair a tax has to make at least an attempt to be proportionate to income/wealth.
>> Edited by JagLover on Wednesday 23 February 14:40
VAT on items is the same no matter how much you earn.It costs the council as much to empty my bin as it does to empty the feckless' in my area .Why should I pay more than them?
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