3:29 marathon today

[AndStilliRise]

Was hoping for a 3:15 so not sure what went wrong. Never mind I am sure Sub3 will happen one day.

[272BHP]

Are you able to analyse what went wrong?

What made you think a 3:15 was possible?

[AndStilliRise]

The two guys were also hoping for quicker times and only finished in front of me by 7min & 5mins.

Recent times:

5k 19:35
10k 40:34
1/2 1:27 & 1:29
M (08/015 PB) 3:23 (full training during the week)

Did a hard session on Friday but even when I thought I was pushing hard was only doing 7:15-7:40s.

[272BHP]

Hard session on Friday? I think I see the problem.

When I ran Marathons the biggest mistake I made was to run too much in the week before the event. Ideally you should get to a point 2 days from the event when you are straining to get let off the leash.

What kind of taper did you do?

[AndStilliRise]

Sun 15m easy
Mon 6m hard
Tue 3m easy
Wed 3m easy
Thu Spin
Fri 6m hard sprints
Sat Marathon race

mmm, thought it was easy tbh.

[272BHP]

Personally, and from experience I would have gone with:

Sunday 8 mile easy
Monday day off
Tuesday 5 mile easy
Wednesday day off
Thursday day off
Friday 2 easy miles to shake the legs off
Saturday Race

You will probably start the race feeling awful and heavy. But you would have loads more in the tank in the second half of the race.

[dangerousB]

AndStilliRise said:

Fri 6m hard sprints

I can understand you wishing to do a few easy 10k's (or similar) early on in the week, but what were you looking to achieve through this session, the day before race day?

Genuine question, by the way - just curious!

[AndStilliRise]

dangerousB said:

AndStilliRise said:

Fri 6m hard sprints

I can understand you wishing to do a few easy 10k's (or similar) early on in the week, but what were you looking to achieve through this session, the day before race day?

Genuine question, by the way - just curious!

The guy who has been helping me with the 3:15 was keen to do some sprints. I didn't have much of choice otherwise it would have been another rest day. Some analysis:

1) Hard session day before
2) 2*Pro-plus caffeine tablets seemed to give adverse effect (really up, then down)
3) Did not drink redbull early enough. I usually have this about the 12 mile, this time did not get it in until 20m proving too late to action.
4) Started too slow, could not chase 3:15.
5) Started late at chasing. Waited until 12 miles before trying to chase the time
6) Not enough food the night before and the incorrect food (cheese burger & chips)
7) Not enough calories during the run (was ravenous @20m)
8) Cold, I hate the cold.

I love summer marathons, but the improvements will be marginal so might try and get 5k/10k times down. That being said, i really don't want to throw away the long distance running.

[Muzzer79]

AndStilliRise said:

Sun 15m easy
Mon 6m hard
Tue 3m easy
Wed 3m easy
Thu Spin
Fri 6m hard sprints
Sat Marathon race

mmm, thought it was easy tbh.

Seems like a lot of mileage/effort for the week of the race.

As others have said, I don't think you tapered correctly.

Also, the obvious nutritional failings before and during the race.

[Berlin Mike]

AndStilliRise said:

dangerousB said:

AndStilliRise said:

Fri 6m hard sprints

I can understand you wishing to do a few easy 10k's (or similar) early on in the week, but what were you looking to achieve through this session, the day before race day?

Genuine question, by the way - just curious!

The guy who has been helping me with the 3:15 was keen to do some sprints. I didn't have much of choice otherwise it would have been another rest day. Some analysis:

1) Hard session day before
2) 2*Pro-plus caffeine tablets seemed to give adverse effect (really up, then down)
3) Did not drink redbull early enough. I usually have this about the 12 mile, this time did not get it in until 20m proving too late to action.
4) Started too slow, could not chase 3:15.
5) Started late at chasing. Waited until 12 miles before trying to chase the time
6) Not enough food the night before and the incorrect food (cheese burger & chips)
7) Not enough calories during the run (was ravenous @20m)
8) Cold, I hate the cold.
L
I love summer marathons, but the improvements will be marginal so might try and get 5k/10k times down. That being said, i really don't want to throw away the long distance running.

What about no. 3? Are you drinking energy drinks while training? I tried eating while training and it was a big mistake. Your body gets used to getting food on the long run which tea hes it to get nutrients from your stomach. When you are doing the race, there is no blood to digest the stuff and you hit the wall. You need to train your body to use what it can get from available reserves. Of course, in the race, a gel will be a bit of help. This mistake cost me 10 minutes at least.
Mike
Ps: And those sprints were daft!

[dangerousB]

AndStilliRise said:

The guy who has been helping me with the 3:15 was keen to do some sprints.

I'd still love to know why someone would think this a good idea the day before a marathon - I would have politely declined and left him to it!

I'm certainly no running expert (and certainly no marathon expert!), but as I see it:-

1) Hard session day before - 95%+ of the reason for underperformance, IMO
2) 2*Pro-plus caffeine tablets seemed to give adverse effect (really up, then down) - this shouldn't have been a surprise
3) Did not drink redbull early enough. I usually have this about the 12 mile, this time did not get it in until 20m proving too late to action - should have been nailed as part of a race plan, but wouldn't have made a huge difference to your time anyway, IMO
4) Started too slow, could not chase 3:15 - were you expecting to negatively split your race? Very risky strategy!
5) Started late at chasing. Waited until 12 miles before trying to chase the time - See above!!
6) Not enough food the night before and the incorrect food (cheese burger & chips) - Meh, marginal
7) Not enough calories during the run (was ravenous @20m) - you must have known the aid station layout beforehand surely? Either that or taken a few contingency gels/shot bloks/jelly babies or something
8) Cold, I hate the cold - most of us do - train for it or wear more!

I hope that doesn't sound too disparaging (it's certainly not meant too, by the way), but the silver lining of a below par race is that you can learn from what went wrong and put it right next time around.

[AndStilliRise]

Onwards & upwards. Still relatively pleased with my time. 3rd time under 3:30 and usually injured in Spring. So at least this way I have some (achievable) targets for the year.

[272BHP]

What kind of weekly mileage did you build up to?

[cslwannabe]

Good effort and I'm sure you will manage sub 3:15 based on your HM times - I ran my first and possibly last marathon last October - 3:32:52 which was 1:45 first half and 1:48 second half but your 10km PB is 2 minutes quicker than me and 7-8 quicker for HM. 15m the week before does sound a bit much but how much did your pace vary throughout the marathon? My best runs have generally been when I religiously stick to my planned pace, even if it feels quite slow to begin with as otherwise I tend to push too hard too early and fade in the latter stages.

[The jiffle king]

I've run 5 marathons so have a little experience and can only re-iterate what others have said:
- Your final week was way too hard. I start tapering 3 weeks out and the last week is about 40% of the mileage and mainly very easy apart from a few strides 2 days before
- The rest of your life in the 4-5 days leading up to the marathon need to be easy with sleep and not being on your feet
- Food will matter, but not that much. If you usually eat a cheeseburger just before the long run, then doing it before the race is fine. If you usually have pasta but changed it would not help.
- hydration is key leading up to the race as well as during it
- Your times indicate sub 3:15, so it's worth looking at the number of long runs you did, the taper weeks and if you set off too quickly
- Even paced running is the ideal for a marathon if you can, but every quick mile at the start generate lactic acid which will not help you later on.

Sounds like you need to have another attempt as you are a very capable runner and you've done a good marathon time, but could make it great!

Join the running thread in the sports section for more input

[AndStilliRise]

Running another over the w/e. Perhaps i will try:

1) 20m hard
2) 20m hard, 6m easy
3) 13.1 hard
4) Sub4 Easy

Depends on how i feel after the first mile. Always get nervous even though it must me marathon ~45 or something.

[The jiffle king]

AndStilliRise said:

Running another over the w/e. Perhaps i will try:

1) 20m hard
2) 20m hard, 6m easy
3) 13.1 hard
4) Sub4 Easy

Depends on how i feel after the first mile. Always get nervous even though it must me marathon ~45 or something.

If you are not used to running marathons then 2 in 2 weekends will not feel easy. You might feel rested, but it will take time to recover. I would suggest sub 4 easy to give yourself time to recover. If you want to race another one, I would give it at least 8 weeks as I've done marathons 6 weeks apart and was still impacted.