Discussion
This seems to be a popular thing to call out at the moment. You can't move for people being 'outed' on social media for this that and the other bad thing they've done. One of the biggest of these bad things seems to be shaming of others for something they are, something they have, something they like or whatever. For example, "fat shaming" which i guess taken to its logical conclusion means that no-one can ever be called fat, even if they are fat. I'm all for supporting diversity and everything but sometimes people need someone to have a word with them. Thoughts?
You might enjoy Jon Ronson's book So You've Been Publically Shamed.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/So-Youve-Been-Publicly-Sha...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/So-Youve-Been-Publicly-Sha...
DonkeyApple said:
Being caught balls deep in a squirrel is shaming. Being called fat etc is bullying.
ah well this is where it gets complicated. Maybe I should have used quotes because "shaming" is the blanket term now, it seems. However it covers both appropriate and inappropriate behaviour. You can shame a person for something they have no control over, but then someone else can shame you for the bad thing you did in shaming the first person. The first person has justification in being shamed, but the second person does. I think. Yes it's probably better described as bullying but that's the Internet.ginger is a very interesting one. Now shame me for being a sexist pig if you like, but there is an unbelievably sexy woman at my work who has auburn red hair and a figure like Christina Hendricks, honestly she looks like Jessica Rabbit. Anyway, she stops traffic. She walks by in the canteen and you can see the surreptitious mexican wave of men's eyeballs move with her. Guy I was eating lunch with doesn't seem to have noticed, so I helpfully point her out (bro code etc). He looks up and just says "nope, ginger" and then goes back to his lunch. I had to ask, and his response was that he just can't bring himself to find any red haired woman attractive. He admits that if he could somehow get away with it, he would take the piss out of gingers in the same way as he did in school! He's 42.
Blown2CV said:
ah well this is where it gets complicated. Maybe I should have used quotes because "shaming" is the blanket term now, it seems. However it covers both appropriate and inappropriate behaviour. You can shame a person for something they have no control over, but then someone else can shame you for the bad thing you did in shaming the first person. The first person has justification in being shamed, but the second person does. I think. Yes it's probably better described as bullying but that's the Internet.
It's a ridiculous term. Someone can only be shamed if they are prepared to be ashamed. If they have any self-esteem they will just ignore the bully or tell them to FRO.DocJock said:
Blown2CV said:
ah well this is where it gets complicated. Maybe I should have used quotes because "shaming" is the blanket term now, it seems. However it covers both appropriate and inappropriate behaviour. You can shame a person for something they have no control over, but then someone else can shame you for the bad thing you did in shaming the first person. The first person has justification in being shamed, but the second person does. I think. Yes it's probably better described as bullying but that's the Internet.
It's a ridiculous term. Someone can only be shamed if they are prepared to be ashamed. If they have any self-esteem they will just ignore the bully or tell them to FRO.Try this one for size Micro Aggression
Now I can agree and understand that 'micro aggression' can and does exist.
But just listen to some of these questions and responses.
It's enough to make you worry for the world, like there aren't enough reasons already.
I had quite an extended discussion about this with a black African friend after we both first saw it.
My reaction was stunned silence, his was howling with laughter.
Now I can agree and understand that 'micro aggression' can and does exist.
But just listen to some of these questions and responses.
It's enough to make you worry for the world, like there aren't enough reasons already.
I had quite an extended discussion about this with a black African friend after we both first saw it.
My reaction was stunned silence, his was howling with laughter.
DonkeyApple said:
Being caught balls deep in a squirrel is shaming. Being called fat etc is bullying.
The problem is the things that get labelled "fat shaming" and similar - a woman posted a picture of herself (in a bikini I think) saying how she was so proud of the work she'd put in exercising and losing weight, and she was shouted down for "fat shaming".There is nothing 'bullying' about feeling good about yourself for putting in hard work. Anyone who feels 'shamed' because of that is projecting their own self-hatred on to someone else. They do feel ashamed, but they are attributing the casting of that shame away from themselves.
If anyone feels there is something wrong with them, there are three things they can do: change how they are (if possible); change how they feel; continue as current. All of those choices are personal, all are fine and none of them are the responsibility of any other person.
xRIEx said:
DonkeyApple said:
Being caught balls deep in a squirrel is shaming. Being called fat etc is bullying.
The problem is the things that get labelled "fat shaming" and similar - a woman posted a picture of herself (in a bikini I think) saying how she was so proud of the work she'd put in exercising and losing weight, and she was shouted down for "fat shaming".There is nothing 'bullying' about feeling good about yourself for putting in hard work. Anyone who feels 'shamed' because of that is projecting their own self-hatred on to someone else. They do feel ashamed, but they are attributing the casting of that shame away from themselves.
If anyone feels there is something wrong with them, there are three things they can do: change how they are (if possible); change how they feel; continue as current. All of those choices are personal, all are fine and none of them are the responsibility of any other person.
It's always struck me as being akin to sticking your face in a public urinalysis and then complaining about suddenly stinking of piss. Or like walking into a Yates' and then being surprised you can't have a quality conversation.
Blown2CV said:
ginger is a very interesting one. Now shame me for being a sexist pig if you like, but there is an unbelievably sexy woman at my work who has auburn red hair and a figure like Christina Hendricks, honestly she looks like Jessica Rabbit. Anyway, she stops traffic. She walks by in the canteen and you can see the surreptitious mexican wave of men's eyeballs move with her. Guy I was eating lunch with doesn't seem to have noticed, so I helpfully point her out (bro code etc). He looks up and just says "nope, ginger" and then goes back to his lunch. I had to ask, and his response was that he just can't bring himself to find any red haired woman attractive. He admits that if he could somehow get away with it, he would take the piss out of gingers in the same way as he did in school! He's 42.
It's not that interesting. Everyone likes different things. As for gingers, well I've found that it makes life easier as no one ever looks beyond the colour of your hair when lobbing abuse. When your a ginga you never get abuse for any of your actual failings or weaknesses. As a bloke it has been somewhat of a blessing. DonkeyApple said:
xRIEx said:
DonkeyApple said:
Being caught balls deep in a squirrel is shaming. Being called fat etc is bullying.
The problem is the things that get labelled "fat shaming" and similar - a woman posted a picture of herself (in a bikini I think) saying how she was so proud of the work she'd put in exercising and losing weight, and she was shouted down for "fat shaming".There is nothing 'bullying' about feeling good about yourself for putting in hard work. Anyone who feels 'shamed' because of that is projecting their own self-hatred on to someone else. They do feel ashamed, but they are attributing the casting of that shame away from themselves.
If anyone feels there is something wrong with them, there are three things they can do: change how they are (if possible); change how they feel; continue as current. All of those choices are personal, all are fine and none of them are the responsibility of any other person.
It's always struck me as being akin to sticking your face in a public urinalysis and then complaining about suddenly stinking of piss. Or like walking into a Yates' and then being surprised you can't have a quality conversation.
Blown2CV said:
ginger is a very interesting one. Now shame me for being a sexist pig if you like, but there is an unbelievably sexy woman at my work who has auburn red hair and a figure like Christina Hendricks, honestly she looks like Jessica Rabbit. Anyway, she stops traffic. She walks by in the canteen and you can see the surreptitious mexican wave of men's eyeballs move with her. Guy I was eating lunch with doesn't seem to have noticed, so I helpfully point her out (bro code etc). He looks up and just says "nope, ginger" and then goes back to his lunch. I had to ask, and his response was that he just can't bring himself to find any red haired woman attractive. He admits that if he could somehow get away with it, he would take the piss out of gingers in the same way as he did in school! He's 42.
I had a mate who said he couldn't date a ginger, because at some point they'd argue and he call her a "ginger b#tch" or something, and he was worried he'd never be able to take it back or make things right after thatI don't mind people being fat, if they want to live their life being overweight that's up to them.
However what does get on my tits is fat women on dating sites or facebook etc. going on about how 'If you don't like my curves you're not man enough to handle a woman like me' or 'real men don't want a bag of bones' or something similar having a go at slim women and questioning the male masculinity of the blokes that aren't interested in them. Already mentioned above, a female works her socks off in the gym and puts up a pic only for a bunch of passive aggressive fatties to wade in with snide comments about 'real women' etc.
Fat people, women in particular, seem to be the only ones who do this.
However what does get on my tits is fat women on dating sites or facebook etc. going on about how 'If you don't like my curves you're not man enough to handle a woman like me' or 'real men don't want a bag of bones' or something similar having a go at slim women and questioning the male masculinity of the blokes that aren't interested in them. Already mentioned above, a female works her socks off in the gym and puts up a pic only for a bunch of passive aggressive fatties to wade in with snide comments about 'real women' etc.
Fat people, women in particular, seem to be the only ones who do this.
BrownBottle said:
I don't mind people being fat, if they want to live their life being overweight that's up to them.
However what does get on my tits is fat women on dating sites or facebook etc. going on about how 'If you don't like my curves you're not man enough to handle a woman like me' or 'real men don't want a bag of bones' or something similar having a go at slim women and questioning the male masculinity of the blokes that aren't interested in them. Already mentioned above, a female works her socks off in the gym and puts up a pic only for a bunch of passive aggressive fatties to wade in with snide comments about 'real women' etc.
Fat people, women in particular, seem to be the only ones who do this.
Misandrists see Misogyny everywhere I find. The mainstream press is massively guilty of this. fHowever what does get on my tits is fat women on dating sites or facebook etc. going on about how 'If you don't like my curves you're not man enough to handle a woman like me' or 'real men don't want a bag of bones' or something similar having a go at slim women and questioning the male masculinity of the blokes that aren't interested in them. Already mentioned above, a female works her socks off in the gym and puts up a pic only for a bunch of passive aggressive fatties to wade in with snide comments about 'real women' etc.
Fat people, women in particular, seem to be the only ones who do this.
k them, I say, fk them all. I am determined to retain a fair view, no matter what. Gassing Station | The Lounge | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff