Brake pads for road and track
Discussion
I fitted some new DS2500 pads a couple of months back, but even after getting them bedded in, I'm just not happy with the bite at all.
I have the 4 pot fronts, and previously had the standard Caterham pads fitted. They had far better initial bite than the DS2500 - though I will admit the DS2500 provide better performance when you're standing on the pedal. The problem is, on the road, I can go minutes without touching the brakes, and they never really seem to get enough heat in them.
I had to slam the brakes on a few weekends back as an Audi Q3 decided they couldn't be bothered to wait to pass a cyclist and overtook right in my path and the DS2500 just didn't give me the confidence I was going to stop in time.
So, what pads would you suggest for my use? Mintex 1144 seem to be highly regarded? Caterham seem to sell Pagid pads as their replacement for the 4pot (which may have been my last pad, but I can't tell from any markings on them). My current pads are great for road use, just a little lacking on track. I realise it's hard to strike the perfect balance but I was just curious is I was missing out on an obvious alternative!
I may go back to my old pads for this year and try the DS2500 on track as I'm due to replace my discs next year anyway, so will need new pads then.
I have the 4 pot fronts, and previously had the standard Caterham pads fitted. They had far better initial bite than the DS2500 - though I will admit the DS2500 provide better performance when you're standing on the pedal. The problem is, on the road, I can go minutes without touching the brakes, and they never really seem to get enough heat in them.
I had to slam the brakes on a few weekends back as an Audi Q3 decided they couldn't be bothered to wait to pass a cyclist and overtook right in my path and the DS2500 just didn't give me the confidence I was going to stop in time.
So, what pads would you suggest for my use? Mintex 1144 seem to be highly regarded? Caterham seem to sell Pagid pads as their replacement for the 4pot (which may have been my last pad, but I can't tell from any markings on them). My current pads are great for road use, just a little lacking on track. I realise it's hard to strike the perfect balance but I was just curious is I was missing out on an obvious alternative!
I may go back to my old pads for this year and try the DS2500 on track as I'm due to replace my discs next year anyway, so will need new pads then.
I have to say I am extremely surprised at the results you are getting.
The DS2500 has a much higher coefficient of friction from cold than the 1144 and certainly will have better performance throughout the temp ranges.
Now and again I do get customers who just do not get on with the Ferodo. You may well be one of those.
The Pagids will be like a switch - personally I do not like them because of this performance. Touch the pedal and they grab. The Ferodo does allow you to "brush" the pedal.
DS3000 is very good from cold and not grabby.
1144 is great all round but if you push hard on track may not be up to the job. I can only do one or 2 big stops on track with the slicks before the start to smell bad!
The DS2500 has a much higher coefficient of friction from cold than the 1144 and certainly will have better performance throughout the temp ranges.
Now and again I do get customers who just do not get on with the Ferodo. You may well be one of those.
The Pagids will be like a switch - personally I do not like them because of this performance. Touch the pedal and they grab. The Ferodo does allow you to "brush" the pedal.
DS3000 is very good from cold and not grabby.
1144 is great all round but if you push hard on track may not be up to the job. I can only do one or 2 big stops on track with the slicks before the start to smell bad!
SimonRogers said:
The Pagids will be like a switch - personally I do not like them because of this performance. Touch the pedal and they grab. The Ferodo does allow you to "brush" the pedal.
Perhaps this is the problem Simon. I'm used to servo assisted cars, and I found the bite of the Pagids quite comforting (assuming that's what was in the car)Perhaps I just need to live with them a bit longer and see if I can get used to having to push harder. I think part of the issue is that I was afraid to push too hard on the Pagids in case they locked up - so maybe I just need to prepare to push these a bit harder with the DS2500; it's just a bit un-nerving when the roads are cold at the moment and I'm thinking they'll lock up!
Edited by framerateuk on Wednesday 23 March 17:24
I've used DS2500's on both the 4 pot and standard front brakes, and I really rate them. They work well from cold and on track IMO. As Simon says, they don't have that 'over-servoed' grabbyness which you can get with some pads when you brush the pedal, they're nice and progressive.
Edited by ForzaGilles on Thursday 24th March 11:57
framerateuk said:
SimonRogers said:
The Pagids will be like a switch - personally I do not like them because of this performance. Touch the pedal and they grab. The Ferodo does allow you to "brush" the pedal.
Perhaps this is the problem Simon. I'm used to servo assisted cars, and I found the bite of the Pagids quite comforting (assuming that's what was in the car)Perhaps I just need to live with them a bit longer and see if I can get used to having to push harder. I think part of the issue is that I was afraid to push too hard on the Pagids in case they locked up - so maybe I just need to prepare to push these a bit harder with the DS2500; it's just a bit un-nerving when the roads are cold at the moment and I'm thinking they'll lock up!
Edited by framerateuk on Wednesday 23 March 17:24
I use Pagid RS15 (black) in the front (AP 4 pot) and RS14 (grey) in the rear (AP), and the car will stop dead. From the off, I trail LFB for a few 100 metres or so to get *some* heat into the pads, as I have a long hill to go down to get anywhere, which can have cars jump out from their drives. Once on the move on a spirited drive, they're fine, and even with a large m/c allow a lot of pedal modulation. It's fairly easy to trail into a corner, find the threshold and modulate from there to keep the front end tucked in.... No fade, ever.
ForzaGilles said:
With decent brakes/tyres, and on a dry road, it should take a fair bit of effort to lock the brakes on a Caterham
Usually yes, but in 5 degrees with ZZS it's hard to get much heat into the tyres I'll stick with the DS2500 and see how I get on. I'm off out for a drive tomorrow assuming the weather man is correct!
Worth saying that Pagid's come in a variety of formulations, of course; if you search online you'll find the various performance parameters (including 'bite' and change in friction levels with temperature) all tabulated and available for easy comparison for past and present Pagid compositions.
On my previous K-series R400 I had great all-round perfromance using RS15 material on the fronts in combination with whatever Caterham fitted as standard to the rears; I actually bought some RS14 pads for the rears but never fitted them for fear of the rear being overbraked (not at all what you want...). RS15 is no longer available and I have just bought a set in RST3 (one of their new formulations) to try on the fronts of my current car.
James
On my previous K-series R400 I had great all-round perfromance using RS15 material on the fronts in combination with whatever Caterham fitted as standard to the rears; I actually bought some RS14 pads for the rears but never fitted them for fear of the rear being overbraked (not at all what you want...). RS15 is no longer available and I have just bought a set in RST3 (one of their new formulations) to try on the fronts of my current car.
James
Edited by short-shift on Monday 28th March 10:50
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