Camshaft changed
Discussion
Evening Fellas,
I picked up my Chim from Dan Taylor today as its just had a Kent 218 cam fitted along with followers and vernier chain etc as the lobes on 5 were nice and round. He's done a cracking job as usual and the motor feels smooth and strong.
While he was at it the cooling system was cleaned through, thermostat changed and the temperature is now spot on. I also got him to change the diff and gearbox oil as fourth was noisy when cold and 5th had some vibration..the gearbox oil was 2/3 empty as someone previously had sheared a bolt and most of the oil was left on the Essex A&B roads..all good now even straight reverse!!
So all good you would say!!.....except I can't really feel much more torque/grunt than previously. I realise that with the 218 its quite smooth power delivery with no real power bands to speak of, well 3500 to 4500 picks up quite well (and yes *hite BHP) but dare I say first and second feel a bit mondeo....ok ok its just a standard 400 I know but it is a light car with a v8 for c****** sake.
I've done a ton to it now and aside from some chassis work eventually (theres no visable holes at the minute) its quite sorted so I'm loathed to start again as much as I would like a 500.
So question is chaps is it worth a Mark Adams tornado kit, shorter trumpets etc and a RR (I changed the elbow,filter and intake for ACT already) or should I really be thinking SC and staging the heads......financially this really isn't one of my brightest ideas but any advice gratefully received.
Cheers,
Phil
I picked up my Chim from Dan Taylor today as its just had a Kent 218 cam fitted along with followers and vernier chain etc as the lobes on 5 were nice and round. He's done a cracking job as usual and the motor feels smooth and strong.
While he was at it the cooling system was cleaned through, thermostat changed and the temperature is now spot on. I also got him to change the diff and gearbox oil as fourth was noisy when cold and 5th had some vibration..the gearbox oil was 2/3 empty as someone previously had sheared a bolt and most of the oil was left on the Essex A&B roads..all good now even straight reverse!!
So all good you would say!!.....except I can't really feel much more torque/grunt than previously. I realise that with the 218 its quite smooth power delivery with no real power bands to speak of, well 3500 to 4500 picks up quite well (and yes *hite BHP) but dare I say first and second feel a bit mondeo....ok ok its just a standard 400 I know but it is a light car with a v8 for c****** sake.
I've done a ton to it now and aside from some chassis work eventually (theres no visable holes at the minute) its quite sorted so I'm loathed to start again as much as I would like a 500.
So question is chaps is it worth a Mark Adams tornado kit, shorter trumpets etc and a RR (I changed the elbow,filter and intake for ACT already) or should I really be thinking SC and staging the heads......financially this really isn't one of my brightest ideas but any advice gratefully received.
Cheers,
Phil
Start by thinking about what you want to do such the car.
By which I mean if it is just an occasional Sunday B road cruiser, then you are pretty much there now, but can empty your wallet quite easily achieving not a great deal.
If it is to be a serious track car, then you have two cost-effective choices:
1. SC or turbo
2. Sell it and buy the right 450/500 car that someone else has spent a re-mortgage on.
Stage 3 or 4 heads, porting work, racier cam, shortened trumpets etc etc will give you about 20-30 BHP.
For the same money SC or TC will give you 80-120 BHP.
Either way you will need a remap.
Trust me - anything less than a 50bhp gain is hard to detect apart from the lightening of the wallet.
Come and drive my 315 BHP 5 litre if you want to know what an extra 100 BHP feels like, if it helps with your decision process. But bear in mind I converted my 4 litre to a 5 litre, and it cost me almost what I paid for the car.
And on a track day yes, I am quicker than a 4 litre.......but by fractions, not by anywhere as much as you would expect. A well driven 4 litre is a superb machine
By which I mean if it is just an occasional Sunday B road cruiser, then you are pretty much there now, but can empty your wallet quite easily achieving not a great deal.
If it is to be a serious track car, then you have two cost-effective choices:
1. SC or turbo
2. Sell it and buy the right 450/500 car that someone else has spent a re-mortgage on.
Stage 3 or 4 heads, porting work, racier cam, shortened trumpets etc etc will give you about 20-30 BHP.
For the same money SC or TC will give you 80-120 BHP.
Either way you will need a remap.
Trust me - anything less than a 50bhp gain is hard to detect apart from the lightening of the wallet.
Come and drive my 315 BHP 5 litre if you want to know what an extra 100 BHP feels like, if it helps with your decision process. But bear in mind I converted my 4 litre to a 5 litre, and it cost me almost what I paid for the car.
And on a track day yes, I am quicker than a 4 litre.......but by fractions, not by anywhere as much as you would expect. A well driven 4 litre is a superb machine
Lightening the flywheel seems like a good idea on the 4.0 as I'm sure that would make the car feel more responsive especially low down torque.
I agree the 4.0 can and is a good engine but it lacks the low down torque that I think the O/P is probably talking about,
Even the 4.6 seems low on torque until you get it above 3000 revs compared to the 5.0 so that's the area I'd try and improve.
I agree the 4.0 can and is a good engine but it lacks the low down torque that I think the O/P is probably talking about,
Even the 4.6 seems low on torque until you get it above 3000 revs compared to the 5.0 so that's the area I'd try and improve.
Yes fair comments and I'm by no means an accomplished driver.
I didn't exactly mean that its not fun or rapid and it is great on the twisty country roads. I suppose I was just hoping to notice a bit more especially as the cam was quite worn.
Good shout on the forget it if its less than 50bhp as I can't really relate to how 10,20 or 30 extra horses will really feel anyway so that maybe helps a bit in focusing the mind on the real options.
I do think a test drive of a 450/ 500 or equivalent by other means at some point is worthwhile so appreciate the offer.
Cheers.
I didn't exactly mean that its not fun or rapid and it is great on the twisty country roads. I suppose I was just hoping to notice a bit more especially as the cam was quite worn.
Good shout on the forget it if its less than 50bhp as I can't really relate to how 10,20 or 30 extra horses will really feel anyway so that maybe helps a bit in focusing the mind on the real options.
I do think a test drive of a 450/ 500 or equivalent by other means at some point is worthwhile so appreciate the offer.
Cheers.
ClassiChimi said:
Lightening the flywheel seems like a good idea on the 4.0 as I'm sure that would make the car feel more responsive especially low down torque.
I agree the 4.0 can and is a good engine but it lacks the low down torque that I think the O/P is probably talking about,
Even the 4.6 seems low on torque until you get it above 3000 revs compared to the 5.0 so that's the area I'd try and improve.
Yep thats what I was trying to articulate...probably not very well though . It is that low down torque and I'm expecting this rush of acceleration and actually it feels quite ordinary, once you work it on from there its nice though.I agree the 4.0 can and is a good engine but it lacks the low down torque that I think the O/P is probably talking about,
Even the 4.6 seems low on torque until you get it above 3000 revs compared to the 5.0 so that's the area I'd try and improve.
It's a sports car - torque from low down is great for towing trailers, caravans, boats, and for masking inept driving technique - shove the torque peak closer to the power peak and the engine will feel and perform quicker (but needs driving appropriately, ie with more gear changes etc). Push the power and torque peaks further up the rev range (bigger cam, bigger valved heads etc), the car will ultimately be faster (again, needs driving and may not equate to feel nicer).
Exceeded the ability of the engine to breathe normally aspirated (mid 300s on a drivable 450/500 typically), go forced induction if you want more. Or learn to pedal it
Exceeded the ability of the engine to breathe normally aspirated (mid 300s on a drivable 450/500 typically), go forced induction if you want more. Or learn to pedal it
Don't forget that although you don't get that huge shove in the back on the 400 like you do on the 500, the 400 is actually a better car to drive IMO. You cannot use most of the power in the 500 on the road, put you foot down and very soon you are doing triple figures. The 500 will woo you with its compariativly awesome power and the way you catapult down the road but it does not have as much character as a rev happy 400. The 400 you can enjoy having you foot on the accelerator and listening to the sound track for longer, you can power out of bends quicker without having to worry about the huge torque putting you in the hedge. A 400 is a wonderful car. My advice would be to drive it for 6 months with the new cam and see what you think.
As Qbee has stated it really depends what you want to do with the car. Track work where you can use the extra power 500 all day long. Road use and you like being catapulted down the road in a straight line... 500. If you want to actually drive the car properly on twisty roads 400 bouncing off the rev limiter in every gear enjoying the sound track. All IMO of course.
I have a similar situation with my new cam in my Griff 500. Badly worn cam replaced was expecting it to feel much faster when I picked it up, actually now feels slower as it is more refined with progressive power all the way through. First 400 miles was underwhelmed as was expecting to feel a difference, happy as larry again now.
As Qbee has stated it really depends what you want to do with the car. Track work where you can use the extra power 500 all day long. Road use and you like being catapulted down the road in a straight line... 500. If you want to actually drive the car properly on twisty roads 400 bouncing off the rev limiter in every gear enjoying the sound track. All IMO of course.
I have a similar situation with my new cam in my Griff 500. Badly worn cam replaced was expecting it to feel much faster when I picked it up, actually now feels slower as it is more refined with progressive power all the way through. First 400 miles was underwhelmed as was expecting to feel a difference, happy as larry again now.
Yep I'd like that shove in the back acceleration of course but I make you right that I probably need to learn to drive it properly and get the best out of it before throwing loads more dosh at it. In fairness I'm not that *h** a driver that I can't get "near" its best in a straight line but that's the easy bit IMO. Its when it gets twisty that my nerve goes a bit probably.
- Brembo brakes
- Gaz Gold Pro coil overs
- Leven drop links on all four corners
If you've got the genuine 240hp & 260 torques promised to us by TVR plus the above upgrades... a 1060kg 4.0 lire is quite some road car.
If it worries you in the twisty bits, it may well need a four wheel alignment unless it has had one recently. Computerised Hunter machine, and done by Dan Taylor or similar TVR expert. These cars are very sensitive to misaligned suspension. Should cost around £100, and be money well spent.
PhilH42 said:
Gaz gold pros all round a couple of months back and everything re-aligned ...I've got some new upgraded droplinks but not got round to putting them on yet....ah for god sake its my C*** driving.
Phil, I remember when I used a bottle of injector cleaning additive in the fuel, after a day or two the car was noticably brisker! That + light flywheel helped my 400... + the decat of course 
The injectors were sent away for re-conditioning and spray pattern check so I'd presume they are pretty good but yes I tried some cataclean a while back and it was quite good...although I think some people thought I was losing it a bit with my positive review. I did consider a lightened flywheel at one point so maybe that is worth thinking about.
I'm in Brentwood Essex.
I'm in Brentwood Essex.
You can spend a lot of money on tweaks and make very little difference to the car. Add the cost of all the little tweaks together, ignore them, and either SC or TC it. Then you will feel the difference. But do your research and make sure that the engine is in good nick first, or you will spend loads more rebuilding the engine.
Or sell yours and buy a good 500, but don't moan about the drop in fuel economy.....mine does 20 mpg on the road, 9 mpg on track.
Or sell yours and buy a good 500, but don't moan about the drop in fuel economy.....mine does 20 mpg on the road, 9 mpg on track.
Hi Phil,
Was your cars at Dans last weekend? I called in for his views on something and he had no room for me to leave the car with him!
As to performance up-grades....I had a very strong 400 and changed the car for faster one. 95% of the time, maybe even higher, I regret it, then a nice dry piece of tarmac appears and it is brilliant.
Was your cars at Dans last weekend? I called in for his views on something and he had no room for me to leave the car with him!
As to performance up-grades....I had a very strong 400 and changed the car for faster one. 95% of the time, maybe even higher, I regret it, then a nice dry piece of tarmac appears and it is brilliant.
Its a good point regarding the chip, answer is I don't actually know, which is why I was thinking Mark Adams and RR might be worth a shot.
Qbee that is definately a consideration as I use it more than just on Sundays. I've been looking at SC and turbo for a while and that was my question with the staging...just how prepared does the lump need to be to get the best out of the SC, aside from being strong of course. Bang for buck assuming you don't break something after it seems quite good value for money. Thing is I actually think I'd be happy with a modest improvement but after the 50bhp comment it is making me wonder if the tinkering route is going to be enough...still all good advice and I did ask!
Yes it was in for the last couple of weeks, deep metallic blue. Apologies for that, what were you going in for? Colin recons we almost car share its in their that much...Dan wants to get the chassis sorted as its covered in layers of waxoil,cack and underseal and it will be done in the next 18-24 months or so. I knew it would need sorting out, surprisingly though it was actually pretty solid when they stabbed it in all the usual places and could not find any holes...well not on the bits they can get to anyway. I've got lots of little jobs to finish over the next couple of weeks though, including some colouring to the interior door cards and gaitors, tidying of carpet edges round the doors...I changed them recently for a navy blue set after ordering from Chris at DC trim and the split laminate made way for a stainless dash which I just need to solder some new LED's to and set the radio properly, the opening in the panel is quite generous.
Where are you all based? I do keep saying I'm going to get to a meet and must do it now the weather is improving a bit and the car is in slightly better order.
Qbee that is definately a consideration as I use it more than just on Sundays. I've been looking at SC and turbo for a while and that was my question with the staging...just how prepared does the lump need to be to get the best out of the SC, aside from being strong of course. Bang for buck assuming you don't break something after it seems quite good value for money. Thing is I actually think I'd be happy with a modest improvement but after the 50bhp comment it is making me wonder if the tinkering route is going to be enough...still all good advice and I did ask!
Yes it was in for the last couple of weeks, deep metallic blue. Apologies for that, what were you going in for? Colin recons we almost car share its in their that much...Dan wants to get the chassis sorted as its covered in layers of waxoil,cack and underseal and it will be done in the next 18-24 months or so. I knew it would need sorting out, surprisingly though it was actually pretty solid when they stabbed it in all the usual places and could not find any holes...well not on the bits they can get to anyway. I've got lots of little jobs to finish over the next couple of weeks though, including some colouring to the interior door cards and gaitors, tidying of carpet edges round the doors...I changed them recently for a navy blue set after ordering from Chris at DC trim and the split laminate made way for a stainless dash which I just need to solder some new LED's to and set the radio properly, the opening in the panel is quite generous.
Where are you all based? I do keep saying I'm going to get to a meet and must do it now the weather is improving a bit and the car is in slightly better order.
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