Revenue weight

[Oceanrower]

Hi all,

This is probably me being dense but I'm puzzled. I recently bought an old Dennis fire engine to restore/play with.

As I understand it the Revenue Weight is what used to be the GVW. i.e. Maximum weight. On the V5 it has a revenue weight of 6,700.0KG UNLADEN.

Now:

1. I'm not sure how an unladen weight can be the same as GVW.
2. Does this mean it can be driven on a 'normal' driving licence (I'm old, used to be up to 7.5 ton on a standard car ticket)
3. Do fuel and passengers (me!) count as load.

Thanks.

[Slidingpillar]

If you passed your test before 97, you should be ok, but I understand putting water in the tank is considered loading. And water is heavy in the quantities a fire engine takes. If the fire engine is pre 60, you may be ok even with a post 97 licence, but loading with water will still be a no no.

Search around on the internet for more.

[V8LM]

OT, but my grandfather was chief designer at Rolls Royce and designed the gearbox used in the Dennis Fire engine. First box to allow 100% power take-off to drive the pumps apparently.

OOT. He also designed the gearing and supercharger drive for the Merlin. And a 6 or 8 speed (can't remember) automatic gearbox (which was never used unfortunately) back in the 50s/60s.


As you were.

[Roo]

Water is roughly 1kg per litre. Don't fill it up.

[Slidingpillar]

Question: How nicely do you think a fire engine drives with a half full water tank?
Answer: Hideously with the water sloshing about.

I'd much rather drive one with either a full or empty water tank. In any event, I can't get to the bottom of the term, 'revenue rate' as it should be the 'gross vehicle weight' or 'maximum authorised mass' not the unladen weight. And there might be driving licence issues here, too as if the vehicle is post 60, a test passer after 97 might not be able to drive it legally.

[vonhosen]

What does the vehicle's (weight) plates show?

[konark]

Isn't water exactly 1kg per litre

[The Moose]

konark said:

Isn't water exactly 1kg per litre

I believe it is...if it's totally pure.

Won't the water tank be baffled to make the effect of the water sloshing about less?

[hidetheelephants]

Oceanrower said:

Hi all,

This is probably me being dense but I'm puzzled. I recently bought an old Dennis fire engine to restore/play with.

As I understand it the Revenue Weight is what used to be the GVW. i.e. Maximum weight. On the V5 it has a revenue weight of 6,700.0KG UNLADEN.

Now:

1. I'm not sure how an unladen weight can be the same as GVW.
2. Does this mean it can be driven on a 'normal' driving licence (I'm old, used to be up to 7.5 ton on a standard car ticket)
3. Do fuel and passengers (me!) count as load.

Thanks.

1. It can't. It's probably either DVLA computeritis or data entry error; I'd expect 6.7t to be the unladen weight with a GVW of 10-12t depending on the water capacity, crew capacity and how much in the way of ladders, hoses, pumps etc it has room for.
2. As noted by others if you have a pre-97 licence(check it to be sure you will have grandfather rights to drive 7.5t vehicles, you may have to get this replated before you can be strictly legal which would probably require a visit to a VOSA test centre. Depending on age it might be covered by the pre-1960 HGV/PCV rules and not need replating.
3. No and I doubt it, although some dibble are supposed to have been a bit ambitious when interpreting the 'unladen' aspect of things. The legislation is badly written and I think is in line for amendment.

[paintman]

You might want to have a word with these:
http://leicfiremuseum.co.uk/
Should be able to give you chapter & verse on what's required.
Some years ago they used to store a few of their appliances on a property we owned. The appliances were in full working order & full of water. I was glad of that on one occasion as squirrels chewed through some cables in an outbuilding resulting in a fire starting. When the Fire Brigade finally found the premises - it was well hidden - the chap who lived there had fired up one of the appliances & put the fire out!

Edited by paintman on Sunday 27th March 08:00

[V8LM]

The Moose said:

konark said:

Isn't water exactly 1kg per litre

I believe it is...if it's totally pure.

Won't the water tank be baffled to make the effect of the water sloshing about less?

No. It used to be (standard pressure and maximum density), but now the litre is defined is terms of the metre (1 dm^3).

[V8RX7]

When I looked into it a few years ago IIRC the issue here is that a Fire Engine is NOT a goods vehicle.

Hence even laden it is NOT an HGV and can be driven on a standard car license - but please check.