How's a Speed Six Compare to a Yank V8 or Other Engines?
Discussion
First time poster, occasional lurker. I live in the states but have always been fascinated with the later model TVR's. I was doing some reading and saw that the Speed Six was the most powerful NA engine ever put in a production vehicle. Not looking to buy one or anything, just an enthusiast trying to learn more.
So how would you describe the performance characteristics of this engine to someone who's never driven one? I currently drive a Pontiac Firebird with an LS1 and a 6 speed. It makes around 325HP and 345 Tq. Similar output to a 4.0 Cerbera but at a lower RPM.
Is it a peaky motor like an E46 M3? How is its ability to rev? i.e flywheel mass
So how would you describe the performance characteristics of this engine to someone who's never driven one? I currently drive a Pontiac Firebird with an LS1 and a 6 speed. It makes around 325HP and 345 Tq. Similar output to a 4.0 Cerbera but at a lower RPM.
Is it a peaky motor like an E46 M3? How is its ability to rev? i.e flywheel mass
Hi,
I have a older Rover V8 powered TVR so can't really answer your question.
Just thought I'd point out (depending on what year you have)
a Firebird weighs about 3,300 lbs where as a Sagaris weighs about 2,400 lbs.
that near 1000 lbs of difference will be Huge, and add in modern suspension, it'll be a much more direct and pointy car to drive.
I'm sure someone will be along soon, that has driven an LS1 powered car & a Speed Six powered car to compare the power delivery.
HTH
Mark
I have a older Rover V8 powered TVR so can't really answer your question.
Just thought I'd point out (depending on what year you have)
a Firebird weighs about 3,300 lbs where as a Sagaris weighs about 2,400 lbs.
that near 1000 lbs of difference will be Huge, and add in modern suspension, it'll be a much more direct and pointy car to drive.
I'm sure someone will be along soon, that has driven an LS1 powered car & a Speed Six powered car to compare the power delivery.
HTH
Mark
SHARKBITEATTACK said:
I was doing some reading and saw that the Speed Six was the most powerful NA engine ever put in a production vehicle. Not looking to buy one or anything, just an enthusiast trying to learn more.
I think you more likely read that the SpeedSix and AJP8 were some of the most powerful NA engines Per Litre, put in production cars.The Red Rose AJP8 is just shy of 98 bhp/L, even my ratty old AJP8 is 91 bhp/L, I think some of the later well developed SpeedSix engines are almost as much.
These engines are very peaky though, a good RV8 will produce as much if not more torque at far lower revs.
Getting any of these engined cars in the US will probably be impractical until they are 25 years old as they are as filthy as hell!
(Any chance you have 928 considering your screen name?)
steveT350C said:
I believe the 4.0S is the most powerful NA in-line six cylinder engine ever put into a production car...
Ok I was probably being a little harsh there. Let's be honest though while a sag has a claimed 405(?) hp and a Tuscan 3.6 360hp how many actually achieve this from the factory? The quoted numbers are great for promoting the brand but the truth is rather different. The same happened with the rover v8 powered cars and their ridiculously inflated figures.Either way the Fezza still kicks it's arse, I hate to say arguably with more reliability... Unfortunately you have to pay a serious financial premium for this although that statement alone opens yet another large can of worms...!
billynobrakes said:
Blimey that's taking time to come, airbox should not make that much difference with a remap
You never know... What I do know is although the design of the original box is good in concept it's been built by moonlighting dinner ladies. The fit is shockingly poor and spills air all over the place. m4tti said:
You never know... What I do know is although the design of the original box is good in concept it's been built by moonlighting dinner ladies. The fit is shockingly poor and spills air all over the place.
Dear sir what are you implying TVR build quality was bad, you should be ashamed of your self 
Andy_mr2sc said:
steveT350C said:
I believe the 4.0S is the most powerful NA in-line six cylinder engine ever put into a production car...
Ok I was probably being a little harsh there. Let's be honest though while a sag has a claimed 405(?) hp and a Tuscan 3.6 360hp how many actually achieve this from the factory? The quoted numbers are great for promoting the brand but the truth is rather different. The same happened with the rover v8 powered cars and their ridiculously inflated figures.Either way the Fezza still kicks it's arse, I hate to say arguably with more reliability... Unfortunately you have to pay a serious financial premium for this although that statement alone opens yet another large can of worms...!
Of course the V8 in the 458 is very much a 21st Century engine that has been developed with the 'clout' of the conglomerate of Fiat/Chrysler, and as such is a high specific output engine. Maybe, if TVR had the same sort of development budget, bigger numbers would have been achieved?
Nick
nawarne said:
^^Agreed, Andy. However, to put it into perspective, the 458 costs circa 4x the price of the Sagaris at it's launch (£50K ?) I'd also say that looking at the build quality of Ferraris of the late 90's era (when the AJP8 and Spd6 were developed), there isn't a huge difference between the Ferrari and TVR.
Of course the V8 in the 458 is very much a 21st Century engine that has been developed with the 'clout' of the conglomerate of Fiat/Chrysler, and as such is a high specific output engine. Maybe, if TVR had the same sort of development budget, bigger numbers would have been achieved?
Nick
I couldn't agree more with you. Hence my comment about having to pay a premium for a Fezza. It is a massive shame about tvr and their engines especially. A classic case of so near yet so far and if they had managed to fund back then the development we are seeing now with these engines from the likes of Powers, RG etc I think we would have seen a very different outcome from the company.Of course the V8 in the 458 is very much a 21st Century engine that has been developed with the 'clout' of the conglomerate of Fiat/Chrysler, and as such is a high specific output engine. Maybe, if TVR had the same sort of development budget, bigger numbers would have been achieved?
Nick
I love these engines as much as the next owner and we are now seeing some genuine, reliable big numbers being produced. Gary's 4.5SS for example as well as the FFF conversions are all up there which is great to see but sadly I can't look at the standard ones with rose tinted spectacles and say they were amazing out of the box.
Call me childish but I also find great amusement in throwing a few brash negative comments in to a thread to ruffle some of the feathers belonging to die hard fans!!
Back to OP question.
The S6 for me is a great engine and has a character I love that makes its unpredictability a little more predictable in a fun way.
The power is really piled on at 4/4.5k rpm meaning you can floor at low rpm and have good traction but then (in 1st & 2nd anyway) all of a sudden the wheels start spinning due to its turbo like power increase... its more a reflex that saves you by balancing throttle as opposed to conscious thought but its a nice feeling i think.
to Billynobrakes.. you are a lucky man, a Power built S6 is near on Perfect. Im waiting to hear from Dom on the 4.7 release as my perfect S6 Cerb would have current 4.0L peak rpm at 1k and then go onto produce the large figures his 4.3/4.5 does..
Hope my view is of interest to the OP
The S6 for me is a great engine and has a character I love that makes its unpredictability a little more predictable in a fun way.
The power is really piled on at 4/4.5k rpm meaning you can floor at low rpm and have good traction but then (in 1st & 2nd anyway) all of a sudden the wheels start spinning due to its turbo like power increase... its more a reflex that saves you by balancing throttle as opposed to conscious thought but its a nice feeling i think.
to Billynobrakes.. you are a lucky man, a Power built S6 is near on Perfect. Im waiting to hear from Dom on the 4.7 release as my perfect S6 Cerb would have current 4.0L peak rpm at 1k and then go onto produce the large figures his 4.3/4.5 does..
Hope my view is of interest to the OP
SHARKBITEATTACK said:
First time poster, occasional lurker. I live in the states but have always been fascinated with the later model TVR's. I was doing some reading and saw that the Speed Six was the most powerful NA engine ever put in a production vehicle. Not looking to buy one or anything, just an enthusiast trying to learn more.
So how would you describe the performance characteristics of this engine to someone who's never driven one? I currently drive a Pontiac Firebird with an LS1 and a 6 speed. It makes around 325HP and 345 Tq. Similar output to a 4.0 Cerbera but at a lower RPM.
Is it a peaky motor like an E46 M3? How is its ability to rev? i.e flywheel mass
So how would you describe the performance characteristics of this engine to someone who's never driven one? I currently drive a Pontiac Firebird with an LS1 and a 6 speed. It makes around 325HP and 345 Tq. Similar output to a 4.0 Cerbera but at a lower RPM.
Is it a peaky motor like an E46 M3? How is its ability to rev? i.e flywheel mass
Gassing Station | General TVR Stuff & Gossip | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff