Tracing a deceased relatives financial records
Discussion
My family is currently in the process of wrapping up probate for my deceased grandmother and we are suspicious that another family member has been hiding parts of her financial affairs.
We are concerned that shares were sold off which she owned in the run up to her death and that money from her accounts was moved around and withdrawn. This particular family member has already removed all her jewellery and valuables from the house and has not declared them as part of probate so we suspect that they have done more shady things behind the scenes. We have let the theft of the valuables go as this is difficult to prove as it's their word against ours but we want to further investigate our grandmothers financial affairs so we can put our minds at rest.
Is there a way we can do a credit search on a deceased person so we can see what accounts she had in her name? Or perhaps we could hire a financial investigator so we can figure out when she bought and sold her shares in the run up to her death?
It could be that we are looking for nothing but we just want to put our minds at rest so we can move on in the knowledge that this family member hasn't screwed us. Any shred of relationship we had with this person is dead and buried so we don't have anything to lose.
We are concerned that shares were sold off which she owned in the run up to her death and that money from her accounts was moved around and withdrawn. This particular family member has already removed all her jewellery and valuables from the house and has not declared them as part of probate so we suspect that they have done more shady things behind the scenes. We have let the theft of the valuables go as this is difficult to prove as it's their word against ours but we want to further investigate our grandmothers financial affairs so we can put our minds at rest.
Is there a way we can do a credit search on a deceased person so we can see what accounts she had in her name? Or perhaps we could hire a financial investigator so we can figure out when she bought and sold her shares in the run up to her death?
It could be that we are looking for nothing but we just want to put our minds at rest so we can move on in the knowledge that this family member hasn't screwed us. Any shred of relationship we had with this person is dead and buried so we don't have anything to lose.
davepoth said:
Who is the executor of the will?
My grandmother didn't trust my aunt either so made my father and another independent person executors (my aunt is also an executor)Trouble we are having is that all the financial records are being passed to the solicitors in dribs and drabs from my aunt and she has already tried to hide information from us but we have caught her out. We have a nagging suspicion that she's up to something...
RanchoGrande said:
davepoth said:
Who is the executor of the will?
My grandmother didn't trust my aunt either so made my father and another independent person executors (my aunt is also an executor)Trouble we are having is that all the financial records are being passed to the solicitors in dribs and drabs from my aunt and she has already tried to hide information from us but we have caught her out. We have a nagging suspicion that she's up to something...
RanchoGrande said:
My grandmother didn't trust my aunt either so made my father and another independent person executors (my aunt is also an executor)
Trouble we are having is that all the financial records are being passed to the solicitors in dribs and drabs from my aunt and she has already tried to hide information from us but we have caught her out. We have a nagging suspicion that she's up to something...
TBH it's not obvious to me why you think there is a "problem". You say your father is an executor, so if he is still alive he has exactly the same rights to information about your grandmother's affairs as the Aunt. You use the word "we" - is that you and your father? Or is it someone else? And who is this "other independent person"? The solicitor himself?Trouble we are having is that all the financial records are being passed to the solicitors in dribs and drabs from my aunt and she has already tried to hide information from us but we have caught her out. We have a nagging suspicion that she's up to something...
At the end of the day all you (your father) has to do is ask the solicitor to obtain and send you copies of,
1) Your grandmother's bank statements for the past two or three years. It's easy to look through these and to see any unusual transactions, dividends which have stopped coming in etc.
2) Any investment reports, assuming your grandmother had a firm looking after her investments. Even if she didn't use a financial adviser there's usually either a "platform" or "stockbroker" involved.
Also, when was your grandmother's Will written, and by whom? It is usual for a professional adviser to enquire about what assets someone owns before advising them on what sort of Will to write. So if the same solicitor has been involved right through the piece there may be more information available from the original work carried out.
Ozzie Osmond said:
TBH it's not obvious to me why you think there is a "problem". You say your father is an executor, so if he is still alive he has exactly the same rights to information about your grandmother's affairs as the Aunt. You use the word "we" - is that you and your father? Or is it someone else? And who is this "other independent person"? The solicitor himself?
At the end of the day all you (your father) has to do is ask the solicitor to obtain and send you copies of,
1) Your grandmother's bank statements for the past two or three years. It's easy to look through these and to see any unusual transactions, dividends which have stopped coming in etc.
2) Any investment reports, assuming your grandmother had a firm looking after her investments. Even if she didn't use a financial adviser there's usually either a "platform" or "stockbroker" involved.
Also, when was your grandmother's Will written, and by whom? It is usual for a professional adviser to enquire about what assets someone owns before advising them on what sort of Will to write. So if the same solicitor has been involved right through the piece there may be more information available from the original work carried out.
Thanks for the feedback, to clarify, the other independent person is a friend of my deceased grandmother, not the solicitor. Yes, my father can request all financial details but this is where the problems start. The solicitor requests these from my Aunt, and she has not been forthcoming with the paperwork and is only handing over bits and bobs as she sees fit. In regards to the shares, we have the same feeling that my grandmother must have used a platform to purchase the shares but we have no idea who or what this platform was.At the end of the day all you (your father) has to do is ask the solicitor to obtain and send you copies of,
1) Your grandmother's bank statements for the past two or three years. It's easy to look through these and to see any unusual transactions, dividends which have stopped coming in etc.
2) Any investment reports, assuming your grandmother had a firm looking after her investments. Even if she didn't use a financial adviser there's usually either a "platform" or "stockbroker" involved.
Also, when was your grandmother's Will written, and by whom? It is usual for a professional adviser to enquire about what assets someone owns before advising them on what sort of Will to write. So if the same solicitor has been involved right through the piece there may be more information available from the original work carried out.
My grandmother wrote her own will when she was of sound mind, around 6 years prior to her death.
IMO your farther should go to the bank personally and request the account information.
Heres a guide from the BBA - https://www.bba.org.uk/publication/leaflets/bereav...
Heres a handy guide to tracing assets - http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/reclaim-l...
Heres a guide from the BBA - https://www.bba.org.uk/publication/leaflets/bereav...
Heres a handy guide to tracing assets - http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/reclaim/reclaim-l...
Obviously the solicitor has to have the bank statements because it's impossible to do the job without them. From the bank statements all sorts of things can be identified including any shares owned directly, any platform being used, any transfers to other bank accounts etc.
If your father is an executor then he must have been involved in the appointment of the solicitor and has an ongoing relationship as well.
It's really all quite straightforward and you may be fretting over nothing.
If your father is an executor then he must have been involved in the appointment of the solicitor and has an ongoing relationship as well.
It's really all quite straightforward and you may be fretting over nothing.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Obviously the solicitor has to have the bank statements because it's impossible to do the job without them. From the bank statements all sorts of things can be identified including any shares owned directly, any platform being used, any transfers to other bank accounts etc.
If your father is an executor then he must have been involved in the appointment of the solicitor and has an ongoing relationship as well.
It's really all quite straightforward and you may be fretting over nothing.
Quite true, I could be fretting over nothing but we (being myself and the other beneficiaries) have a nagging feeling. My delightful Aunt has already trousered all my grandmothers jewellery and other high value possessions (which we have let go for the sake of proceeding faster) so the precedent has already been set.If your father is an executor then he must have been involved in the appointment of the solicitor and has an ongoing relationship as well.
It's really all quite straightforward and you may be fretting over nothing.
The share divs arrived via cheque so we can't trace them back to a particular trading platform. My father is doing all he can but he keeps coming up against walls, the walls being my aunt as she is the keeper of all the financial info. The solicitor was appointed by my grandmother and is of the sleepy village type variety.
RanchoGrande said:
The solicitor was appointed by my grandmother and is of the sleepy village type variety.
No he wasn't.He may be the solicitor who your Grandma used but it's the Executors who have to appoint a solicitor to represent themselves as a group. Has your father signed the usual "terms and conditions of engagement" letter which will have been sent to him by the solicitor? There's absolutely nothing that says the Executors have to use the same solicitor as the deceased. However, as per my earlier post your Grandma's solicitor should have fully enquired into her financial position before writing a Will in the first place, so in some ways he might be a useful person to use.
I find the comment that your aunt has "trousered all the jewellery" very odd. One of the things the executors' solicitor will be enquiring into is whether there were any "valuables". IIRC there's a specific heading for this in the Inheritance Tax return which your father is going to need to sign in due course....
RanchoGrande said:
The share divs arrived via cheque so we can't trace them back to a particular trading platform.
But those cheques arrive from "somewhere" and all you have to do is look at the cheques to find out who and where that "somewhere" is. Cheques won't have stopped arriving just because Grandma has died. All of this stuff is quite easy to trace. NB Also my previous comment about looking at Grandma's last income tax return if there is one.Sounds like your father needs to be a bit more assertive. The solicitor needs a good kicking or, if necessary, your father could instruct another solicitor to take a view on what has/hasn't been going on. There should be various financial documents readily available that could sort all this out quite quickly.
Ozzie Osmond said:
No he wasn't.
He may be the solicitor who your Grandma used but it's the Executors who have to appoint a solicitor to represent themselves as a group. Has your father signed the usual "terms and conditions of engagement" letter which will have been sent to him by the solicitor? There's absolutely nothing that says the Executors have to use the same solicitor as the deceased. However, as per my earlier post your Grandma's solicitor should have fully enquired into her financial position before writing a Will in the first place, so in some ways he might be a useful person to use.
I find the comment that your aunt has "trousered all the jewellery" very odd. One of the things the executors' solicitor will be enquiring into is whether there were any "valuables". IIRC there's a specific heading for this in the Inheritance Tax return which your father is going to need to sign in due course....
It's not odd, it's my way of saying she has stolen from the estate already so I wouldn't put it past her to have done other things. She is full of resentment and hatred for us so is hell bent on being as difficult as possible. She was asked to provide a valuation for the jewellery and she gave a random low figure for the sake of probate. How can you prove it though? We can't, hence we have gone along with it. I take your point about the solicitor, he would have been mutually instructed by the executors.He may be the solicitor who your Grandma used but it's the Executors who have to appoint a solicitor to represent themselves as a group. Has your father signed the usual "terms and conditions of engagement" letter which will have been sent to him by the solicitor? There's absolutely nothing that says the Executors have to use the same solicitor as the deceased. However, as per my earlier post your Grandma's solicitor should have fully enquired into her financial position before writing a Will in the first place, so in some ways he might be a useful person to use.
I find the comment that your aunt has "trousered all the jewellery" very odd. One of the things the executors' solicitor will be enquiring into is whether there were any "valuables". IIRC there's a specific heading for this in the Inheritance Tax return which your father is going to need to sign in due course....
Ozzie Osmond said:
But those cheques arrive from "somewhere" and all you have to do is look at the cheques to find out who and where that "somewhere" is. Cheques won't have stopped arriving just because Grandma has died. All of this stuff is quite easy to trace. NB Also my previous comment about looking at Grandma's last income tax return if there is one.
From what I understand, the cheques arrived directly from the companies the shares are held with.RanchoGrande said:
How can you prove it though? We can't, hence we have gone along with it.
The usual way to deal with that is to find a few photo's of Grandma wearing her jewellery.Another way is to look at the household contents insurance policy and see whether any "valuables" are listed. This can include any "all risks" cover. i.e. Expensive jewellery is usually listed and insured against loss while you are wearing it out and about, not just while it's sitting in a drawer at home.
Ozzie Osmond said:
The usual way to deal with that is to find a few photo's of Grandma wearing her jewellery.
Another way is to look at the household contents insurance policy and see whether any "valuables" are listed. This can include any "all risks" cover. i.e. Expensive jewellery is usually listed and insured against loss while you are wearing it out and about, not just while it's sitting in a drawer at home.
I did think of the insurance route but we couldn't remember or find out who her insurers were! I'm certain it would have been insured but we have no idea who would have of insured it.Another way is to look at the household contents insurance policy and see whether any "valuables" are listed. This can include any "all risks" cover. i.e. Expensive jewellery is usually listed and insured against loss while you are wearing it out and about, not just while it's sitting in a drawer at home.
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