Discussion
Hi All,
I have been sitting in the middle of a difficult decision...
I have 20k to spend on a Porsche, I prefer the Cayman looks and comparable rarity to the boxster - it feels a bit more special to me! The other issue that adds more issue to my small budget is that 3.4s is a must or I'd always think what if and it would do my head in!
20k will therefore get me a basic gen 2 boxster or gen1 Cayman (caymans seem to be considerably more expensive), looks to me that you need 25k to get to gen2... firstly is this true? Or is it a seasonal thing or just the right one hasn't come up?
Due to what I've seen so far I have started to look at gen1 Cayman vs basic gen2 boxster and am swaying towards the Cayman. I've found a Cayman I'm going to see with the following; 57 plate, sports chrono, exhaust, PASM, nav (not that it's any good) but it has had clutch done, new tyres and mot and has the all important warranty! It's around 17k - firstly is this reasonable? the other thing is it has done 70k miles... Is that a problem on a gen1? I'm reluctant as it just seems too close to 100...
Any thoughts on those points? Especially on what I should look to pay to get a good gen1 3.4s Cayman?
Thanks all for your help in advance!
I have been sitting in the middle of a difficult decision...
I have 20k to spend on a Porsche, I prefer the Cayman looks and comparable rarity to the boxster - it feels a bit more special to me! The other issue that adds more issue to my small budget is that 3.4s is a must or I'd always think what if and it would do my head in!
20k will therefore get me a basic gen 2 boxster or gen1 Cayman (caymans seem to be considerably more expensive), looks to me that you need 25k to get to gen2... firstly is this true? Or is it a seasonal thing or just the right one hasn't come up?
Due to what I've seen so far I have started to look at gen1 Cayman vs basic gen2 boxster and am swaying towards the Cayman. I've found a Cayman I'm going to see with the following; 57 plate, sports chrono, exhaust, PASM, nav (not that it's any good) but it has had clutch done, new tyres and mot and has the all important warranty! It's around 17k - firstly is this reasonable? the other thing is it has done 70k miles... Is that a problem on a gen1? I'm reluctant as it just seems too close to 100...
Any thoughts on those points? Especially on what I should look to pay to get a good gen1 3.4s Cayman?
Thanks all for your help in advance!
I would consider a gen 1 2.7 Cayman chap. Ok it's not an 'S', but it's still a great car!!
Also, you wouldn't need to worry about any engine issues anywhere near as much.
A good friend of mine recently sold his Blue manual 2.7. It went for £13k to a dealer and was mechanically perfect with low miles.
Also, you wouldn't need to worry about any engine issues anywhere near as much.
A good friend of mine recently sold his Blue manual 2.7. It went for £13k to a dealer and was mechanically perfect with low miles.
Tricky this.
Firstly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder - so stick with what your gut tells you!
I was only ever going to get a Cayman, simply because I'm not a convertible type, I've nothing against them, simply not for me.
When I did look for a Cayman I went all through what you are now. Initially looked for a 3.4s ( I stuck with that, like you, I'd be "what if...." ) so I kept that part of my internal promise!
The next dilemma was Gen 1 or Gen 2 , I ended up wit a Gen 2 , I spent far more that I'd originally told myself I would - so that bit failed!
As for Gen 1 PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not be put off any/all the horror stories . Go to the Phillip Raby Porsche website, somewhere there is link to his blog and he dispels the "myth" about all the potential wrongs of Gen 1 engine.
It has also been my experience - and I will incur some abuse , no doubt - that most people who comment on the wrongs of the car have never actually owned one!!
You will not be disappointed with whatever Cayman you buy, they are superb cars. Trust you gut, go with it and good luck. Come back here and let us know what you ended up with.
Steve
Firstly, beauty is in the eye of the beholder - so stick with what your gut tells you!
I was only ever going to get a Cayman, simply because I'm not a convertible type, I've nothing against them, simply not for me.
When I did look for a Cayman I went all through what you are now. Initially looked for a 3.4s ( I stuck with that, like you, I'd be "what if...." ) so I kept that part of my internal promise!
The next dilemma was Gen 1 or Gen 2 , I ended up wit a Gen 2 , I spent far more that I'd originally told myself I would - so that bit failed!
As for Gen 1 PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE do not be put off any/all the horror stories . Go to the Phillip Raby Porsche website, somewhere there is link to his blog and he dispels the "myth" about all the potential wrongs of Gen 1 engine.
It has also been my experience - and I will incur some abuse , no doubt - that most people who comment on the wrongs of the car have never actually owned one!!
You will not be disappointed with whatever Cayman you buy, they are superb cars. Trust you gut, go with it and good luck. Come back here and let us know what you ended up with.
Steve
The gen 1 Cayman S is a great car (we currently have two) but you do need to be mindful of the bore scoring potential in paticular. Unless the car comes with a proper warranty (most warranties won't cover bore scoring), then I would not buy one unless it was either:
a) borescope inspected prior to purchase
b) being sold by a long term private owner who can reassure you on oil consumption (and you are prepared to trust them!)
c) has just been properly rebuilt after bore scoring
d) is already showing bore soring symptoms but priced at least £7k below normal market value (it will cost significantly more than that for a top quality future proof rebuild but might be worth paying a premium for an otherwise good car wih the right spec/condition)
Our own cars were in categories a and b and have been fine and a friend has just bought one in category c.
Aside from bore scoring, a 70k mile 9 year old car may well need suspension work, cosmetic paintwork, air con condensers and pipework, coolant rads, coolant pipes, as well as the usual stuff like discs and pads, clutch/flywheel/RMS, most of which is easily DIY if you are mechanically inclined. But the gen 2 cars are probably just as prone to these as they rack up age and miles.
Gen 2 prices have definitely firmed up over the last 18 months or so and the differential compared with a gen 1 is at least the cost of a decent full future proof engine rebuild (£10-12K) so don't write off the gen 1!
As for values, they are clearly mileage, spec and condition sensitive. I would say a 70k mile car with good spec and condition is going to be in the £14-£16K range (actual purchase price, not necessarily asking price). I'd only pay more from a dealer if the warranty covered major items like bore scoring.
In terms of mileage, we bought one of our cars 18 months ago with 90k miles from the original owner. It has a very good spec, garaged from new with full OPC history, in fab condition, looks and drives fantastically well but was ridiculously cheap so there are bargains out here if you have patience.
a) borescope inspected prior to purchase
b) being sold by a long term private owner who can reassure you on oil consumption (and you are prepared to trust them!)
c) has just been properly rebuilt after bore scoring
d) is already showing bore soring symptoms but priced at least £7k below normal market value (it will cost significantly more than that for a top quality future proof rebuild but might be worth paying a premium for an otherwise good car wih the right spec/condition)
Our own cars were in categories a and b and have been fine and a friend has just bought one in category c.
Aside from bore scoring, a 70k mile 9 year old car may well need suspension work, cosmetic paintwork, air con condensers and pipework, coolant rads, coolant pipes, as well as the usual stuff like discs and pads, clutch/flywheel/RMS, most of which is easily DIY if you are mechanically inclined. But the gen 2 cars are probably just as prone to these as they rack up age and miles.
Gen 2 prices have definitely firmed up over the last 18 months or so and the differential compared with a gen 1 is at least the cost of a decent full future proof engine rebuild (£10-12K) so don't write off the gen 1!
As for values, they are clearly mileage, spec and condition sensitive. I would say a 70k mile car with good spec and condition is going to be in the £14-£16K range (actual purchase price, not necessarily asking price). I'd only pay more from a dealer if the warranty covered major items like bore scoring.
In terms of mileage, we bought one of our cars 18 months ago with 90k miles from the original owner. It has a very good spec, garaged from new with full OPC history, in fab condition, looks and drives fantastically well but was ridiculously cheap so there are bargains out here if you have patience.
Edited by DRH986 on Tuesday 29th March 20:24
Edited by DRH986 on Tuesday 29th March 20:34
Thanks for the messages, I think I'm going to give gen1 a go in that case just ensuring bore scoring is covered!
How can I get the bore scoring checked? Who does this? Not really bought used before so unsure who I can use for this?
The one I'm looking at is priced at 18k with the following:
- sport chrono
- exhaust (don't think it's pse but not sure how to tell)
- PASM
- Nav
- multi function wheels
- Xenons
- parking sensors
It's has the following done:
- clutch
- tyres
- brake pads and discs
- FSH
How does the price sound? I put the plate in webuyanycar and it came back at 12k offer which worries me a bit - I know they rip you off and never off market price but that tells me it's likely a bit over priced - any thoughts?
How can I get the bore scoring checked? Who does this? Not really bought used before so unsure who I can use for this?
The one I'm looking at is priced at 18k with the following:
- sport chrono
- exhaust (don't think it's pse but not sure how to tell)
- PASM
- Nav
- multi function wheels
- Xenons
- parking sensors
It's has the following done:
- clutch
- tyres
- brake pads and discs
- FSH
How does the price sound? I put the plate in webuyanycar and it came back at 12k offer which worries me a bit - I know they rip you off and never off market price but that tells me it's likely a bit over priced - any thoughts?
The Porsche Sports Exhaust (PSE) is a desirable option and is operated by a switch on the dash near to the PASM switch. If its not switchable then it will be aftermarket. We have the well regarded Carnewall exhaust on one of our cars but after two years, I do sometimes think about putting the standard system back on (must be getting old!). There are some good and bad aftermarket systems out there. What might sound great initially may turn out to be a pain (literally!) if it drones at cuising speeds so my advice would be to find out exactly what system it is and google it before making a decision. That said, a used standard exhaust could be bought and fitted for probably under £500.
As a comparison, our friend recently bought privately a high spec 70k mile 2007 manual car with full leather, adaptive memory Sport seats, Bose, nav, Sport Chrono, PASM, zenons, 19" wheels, TPMS, multi function wheel, and a few other options, plus recent engine rebuild, for £14.5K.
I paid £20k for my similarly high spec car from a dealer 4 years ago with around 45K miles and that was relatively expensive at the time. Mine now has approaching 70k and is in excellent pampered condition, with very few better ones around IMHO. Its not for sale but I recon its worth around £15-£16k. So £18k sounds too high to me, unless its truly outstanding and with a cast iron long warranty.
Any good independent specialist or OPC should be able to do a borescope inspection. I don't believe the mobile vehicle inspection specialists generally do this. It will probably cost around £200 and may not be 100% conclusive but better than buying blind without a decent warranty. I got the supplying dealer to borescope mine. Not exactly independent but they race cars in one of the Porsche race series and I got a written report and a long chat with their head technician, who I decided I could trust. Their warranty (AA or RAC, can't remember), would not have covered bore scoring.
Let us know which area the car is in and someone should be able to recommend a good independent specialist.
As a comparison, our friend recently bought privately a high spec 70k mile 2007 manual car with full leather, adaptive memory Sport seats, Bose, nav, Sport Chrono, PASM, zenons, 19" wheels, TPMS, multi function wheel, and a few other options, plus recent engine rebuild, for £14.5K.
I paid £20k for my similarly high spec car from a dealer 4 years ago with around 45K miles and that was relatively expensive at the time. Mine now has approaching 70k and is in excellent pampered condition, with very few better ones around IMHO. Its not for sale but I recon its worth around £15-£16k. So £18k sounds too high to me, unless its truly outstanding and with a cast iron long warranty.
Any good independent specialist or OPC should be able to do a borescope inspection. I don't believe the mobile vehicle inspection specialists generally do this. It will probably cost around £200 and may not be 100% conclusive but better than buying blind without a decent warranty. I got the supplying dealer to borescope mine. Not exactly independent but they race cars in one of the Porsche race series and I got a written report and a long chat with their head technician, who I decided I could trust. Their warranty (AA or RAC, can't remember), would not have covered bore scoring.
Let us know which area the car is in and someone should be able to recommend a good independent specialist.
Edited by DRH986 on Tuesday 29th March 21:48
Thanks for the input gives me some good perspective and not to rush into things! Seem a fair bit cheaper than what a lot of garages are trying to get, I did think there was probably a bit of hard haggling to be done with some of them!
As for the specific one I was looking at - wont mention the garage name on here but seen some pretty shocking reviews on google so pretty put off that particular one now especially seeing all the potential issues if I did buy a lemon. I'm going to look but thinking it's not worth the risk! I was also told I couldn't get a test drive unless I bought the car which is a bit odd... I understand not doing it to prevent people just test driving without intention to buy but still doesn't seem quite right to me!
Anyway the search goes on!
Couple of other gen1 related questions as I continue my hunt:
- I want iPhone music connectivity, I've seen after market systems but blending with the silver centre dash often looks terrible. Has anyone managed to do it well?
- how easy / cheap is it to swap steering wheels? The basic thin three spoke wheel doesn't look good to me, would like to swap to what I believe is the option wheels (fatter more modern looking) is this a popular change? Is it costly?
- any other mods to bring the gen1s up to a more modern look?
Just seen your other reply, I'm down in Surrey near gatwick airport but willing to travel for a good car - any recommendations of trustworthy places to hang onto would be much appreciated - rather wait for a car to appear at a garage I can trust!
As for the specific one I was looking at - wont mention the garage name on here but seen some pretty shocking reviews on google so pretty put off that particular one now especially seeing all the potential issues if I did buy a lemon. I'm going to look but thinking it's not worth the risk! I was also told I couldn't get a test drive unless I bought the car which is a bit odd... I understand not doing it to prevent people just test driving without intention to buy but still doesn't seem quite right to me!
Anyway the search goes on!
Couple of other gen1 related questions as I continue my hunt:
- I want iPhone music connectivity, I've seen after market systems but blending with the silver centre dash often looks terrible. Has anyone managed to do it well?
- how easy / cheap is it to swap steering wheels? The basic thin three spoke wheel doesn't look good to me, would like to swap to what I believe is the option wheels (fatter more modern looking) is this a popular change? Is it costly?
- any other mods to bring the gen1s up to a more modern look?
Just seen your other reply, I'm down in Surrey near gatwick airport but willing to travel for a good car - any recommendations of trustworthy places to hang onto would be much appreciated - rather wait for a car to appear at a garage I can trust!
Edited by Jonathan-co1jm on Tuesday 29th March 21:55
If you search on boxa.net, you'll find some good info on connectivity options. I've not bothered but I know there are some good, altough pricey, ways of connecting via the factory fitted PCM system.
One option for the steering wheel is to get it re-covered. Again, some recent discussion on boxa.net.
Don't rule out a private purchase. I'd look for an enthusiast seller who has owned the car for a while. Always nervous of someone selling a car shortly after buying! With a private seller, you may well get a better feel for the car than buying through a dealer.
Another place to check out for info and advice is Porsche Club GB's forum. Not that much Cayman traffic but some long term knowledgable enthusiast owners on there. Also check out Planet9. This is a US based forum with much more Cayman traffic and the Americans are much more into modifying their cars.
In Crawley there is Parr Motorsport. I have no direct experience but they have been around a long time and seem to have a good reputation as a Porsche specialist.
One option for the steering wheel is to get it re-covered. Again, some recent discussion on boxa.net.
Don't rule out a private purchase. I'd look for an enthusiast seller who has owned the car for a while. Always nervous of someone selling a car shortly after buying! With a private seller, you may well get a better feel for the car than buying through a dealer.
Another place to check out for info and advice is Porsche Club GB's forum. Not that much Cayman traffic but some long term knowledgable enthusiast owners on there. Also check out Planet9. This is a US based forum with much more Cayman traffic and the Americans are much more into modifying their cars.
In Crawley there is Parr Motorsport. I have no direct experience but they have been around a long time and seem to have a good reputation as a Porsche specialist.
i have an 06 Cayman S...last week came up behind a '15 plate Cayman...followed through 50mph roadworks and then the newer car went for it...I have to say it was pretty much neck and neck acceleration! I was a little upset 😡 Not fully up to speed with the power output but a newer non-s may well be just as quick!!
I spent so long worrying about IMS I actually paid no attention to the bore score issue until after buying my car. I have massive paranoia sometimes and this would probably put me off getting another of this vintage. Values seem all over the place - I've spent the cost of a used Boxster on running the thing thus far - they ain't cheap to keep properly maintained...
I spent so long worrying about IMS I actually paid no attention to the bore score issue until after buying my car. I have massive paranoia sometimes and this would probably put me off getting another of this vintage. Values seem all over the place - I've spent the cost of a used Boxster on running the thing thus far - they ain't cheap to keep properly maintained...
These were £50k+ cars new and are never going to be cheap to maintain properly. That said, a good specialist or better still a DIY approach will save a small fortune over OPC servicing. I did clutch, flywheel, rear crank seal, major service, front discs and pads, coil packs, for inside £1k.
Just this weekend I did a Minor service, rear pads and brake fluid change for around £160.
And I've recently proved my theory on how to avoid discs corroding which is a frequent cause of early replacement on a daily driver all weather car, so that should help a bit too!
Just this weekend I did a Minor service, rear pads and brake fluid change for around £160.
And I've recently proved my theory on how to avoid discs corroding which is a frequent cause of early replacement on a daily driver all weather car, so that should help a bit too!
I had to change my front discs 2 years ago due to bad corrosion on the inside faces.
This had ocurred in the 2 years I'd owned the car to that point, despite religiously drying off the brakes every time I washed the car.
I recon the brake cooling ducts channel road spray at the rear faces of the discs in wet weather. So since fitting new discs, I've made a point of getting some heat into the brakes just before parking up after a wet weather drive, to dry them off. Nothing major, just a bit more deliberate brake application near the end of the journey.
I had the car up on ramps at my local OPC recently at a TIPEC club day and all the discs were corrosion free on both faces - very unusual for a daily driver apparently. I haven't changed my commute so I put this remarkable difference down to this approach.
This had ocurred in the 2 years I'd owned the car to that point, despite religiously drying off the brakes every time I washed the car.
I recon the brake cooling ducts channel road spray at the rear faces of the discs in wet weather. So since fitting new discs, I've made a point of getting some heat into the brakes just before parking up after a wet weather drive, to dry them off. Nothing major, just a bit more deliberate brake application near the end of the journey.
I had the car up on ramps at my local OPC recently at a TIPEC club day and all the discs were corrosion free on both faces - very unusual for a daily driver apparently. I haven't changed my commute so I put this remarkable difference down to this approach.
Thanks guys for the feedback and the tip on brakes - I'm sure that will help me out when I finally get the car I'm after.
I will check out 9excellence and see if they can source a good one for me at the right price or bore score something I get from elsewhere.
Thanks again for all your help on this, I'll pop back if I have some questions or want some thoughts on a specific car I find. Otherwise hope to post next when I'm the proud owner of one of these fine machines!
Cheers
I will check out 9excellence and see if they can source a good one for me at the right price or bore score something I get from elsewhere.
Thanks again for all your help on this, I'll pop back if I have some questions or want some thoughts on a specific car I find. Otherwise hope to post next when I'm the proud owner of one of these fine machines!
Cheers
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