Carbon v Alloy MTB Frames

[tjdixon911]

Hi,

Having recently had an Orange Crush on demo for the weekend and deciding its not the bike for me (being that it would offer too much competition against my Spectral) - I have now started looking towards a more XC focused bike, the idea of the crush was to replace my aging Giant XTC so this seems like the logical option.

Not wanting to turn this into another what bike thread, I am keen on the Canyon Grand Canyon range which are available in both Alloy and Carbon.

The top spec Alloy bike is £1499 and the Carbon equivalent is £1999 although in reality is over budget so I could probably stretch to the slightly lower, but well spec'd £1649 version.

Weight wise there is nothing in it, maybe 0.1kg geometry wise the Alloy is slightly longer (and more in keeping with my fleet).

The main use of the bike will be 25-30 mile XC riding (Bridleways, local forest single track etc), trail center (few rocky sections/drop offs etc. when I'm not on the spectral) and maybe a bit of racing.

I'm hovering around 100kg if that makes any difference.

I'm leaning towards the better spec and money saving alloy, but really want to know if Carbon is worth the extra money? I've had a few Carbon road bikes but never an MTB.

Bikes;

Alloy: https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mtb/grand-canyon/gran...

Carbon: https://www.canyon.com/en-gb/mtb/grand-canyon/gran...

There is also a cheaper Carbon option available as there is with the Alloy.

[paulmon]

Take a look at the Santa Cruz Highball in alloy or carbon as long as you avoid their ready built options which are overpriced.. I was going to get a Canyon but the geo on the highball suited me better. I got some Stans crest from superstar and a set of Reba's from bikediscount.de and then built the rest using bits I had in the garage. I've just ordered a 1x11 XT groupset. Its a really light bike even in alloy and it handles superbly.

20151119_103400661_iOS by Paul Monaghan, on Flickr

[tjdixon911]

paulmon said:

Take a look at the Santa Cruz Highball in alloy or carbon as long as you avoid their ready built options which are overpriced.. I was going to get a Canyon but the geo on the highball suited me better. I got some Stans crest from superstar and a set of Reba's from bikediscount.de and then built the rest using bits I had in the garage. I've just ordered a 1x11 XT groupset. Its a really light bike even in alloy and it handles superbly.

20151119_103400661_iOS by Paul Monaghan, on Flickr

Its funny you suggest that, I test rode an XL Alloy Highball after handing the crush back so was on my radar. I did sit on a Large Carbon framed version in the shop also but it was a customers bike so couldn't ride it but it felt good.

Looks good in Black, they only had blue in store.

I would be inclined to build one if I went down that route rather than one of the build options

[WestyCarl]

If your going carbon hardtail, it's worth a test ride as they can be different.
Recently at the Leisure lakes demo day I rode a Cannondale FS-I carbon and a Focus Carbon hardtail.

The Focus was slightly lighter but very very stiff, so much so that it hoped over tree roots loosing traction. The Cannondale rear end was surprisingly compliant and didn't hop as much.

[anonymous-user]

IMO, only when you have a good budget should you move to carbon, as otherwise, you get a more capable bike by sticking to an ally frame but with better components, particularly suspension (forks/shocks) wheels and drivetrain etc!

Once you've Pike'd, XTR'd, Enve'd and XX1'd your way to top spec components then an CF frame starts to make more sense!

[Crippo]

The most important part of any bike is always the frame. Obviously geometry has to work for you and it's got to fit well. However, the ride characteristics of the two materials are quite different. Carbon is better in every way and there are very few riders who go back to alloy. Carbon is now strong with good impact resistance, especially if you go for one of the better frames. However, carbon is able to be laid up in such interesting ways that it can provide a vertically compliant frame with a laterally stiff one. It can be both stiffer and more comfortable than a metal frame. A metal frame can never match this. The only reason not to buy carbon is because you can't afford it.
Components wear out and can be upgraded, they are a minor consideration and are something that should not steer your decision...I truly despair when I hear people deciding to purchase a bike based on a "better" spec.

I've ridden carbon MTBs for 15 years, I have worked in the cycle trade for 20 years.

[andySC]

....."The top spec Alloy bike is £1499 and the Carbon equivalent is £1999 although in reality is over budget so I could probably stretch to the slightly lower, but well spec'd £1649 version"

This is exactly the quandary I had. Plumped for the Grand Canyon CF 6.9. I had my eye on the AL 9.9 but a few mates have the CF versions & they are very good. I've also had a carbon framed Nerve & that was great. The 6.9 was in stock too & hopefully will be with me next week (....mmmmm jury's out on that one).

[tjdixon911]

andySC said:

....."The top spec Alloy bike is £1499 and the Carbon equivalent is £1999 although in reality is over budget so I could probably stretch to the slightly lower, but well spec'd £1649 version"

This is exactly the quandary I had. Plumped for the Grand Canyon CF 6.9. I had my eye on the AL 9.9 but a few mates have the CF versions & they are very good. I've also had a carbon framed Nerve & that was great. The 6.9 was in stock too & hopefully will be with me next week (....mmmmm jury's out on that one).

Which colour have you gone for? Just noticed the Stealth is now in stock in my size, it hasn't been for the past few days...

How tall are you and what size have you opted for? I'm pretty sure I will need a Large, my spectral is a Large they compare as follows;

Grand Canyon (CF) ETT 610mm + 90mm Stem = 700mm overall
Spectral ETT 627mm + 60mm Stem = 687mm overall

My XTC ETT is 614mm and runs an 80/90mm stem (can't remember which) so is quite comparable to the Grand Canyon..

I was lucky with the Spectral as I went to the Factory/Showroom in Germany to try it before buying...

[andySC]

tjdixon911 said:

andySC said:

....."The top spec Alloy bike is £1499 and the Carbon equivalent is £1999 although in reality is over budget so I could probably stretch to the slightly lower, but well spec'd £1649 version"

This is exactly the quandary I had. Plumped for the Grand Canyon CF 6.9. I had my eye on the AL 9.9 but a few mates have the CF versions & they are very good. I've also had a carbon framed Nerve & that was great. The 6.9 was in stock too & hopefully will be with me next week (....mmmmm jury's out on that one).

Which colour have you gone for? Just noticed the Stealth is now in stock in my size, it hasn't been for the past few days...

How tall are you and what size have you opted for? I'm pretty sure I will need a Large, my spectral is a Large they compare as follows;

Grand Canyon (CF) ETT 610mm + 90mm Stem = 700mm overall
Spectral ETT 627mm + 60mm Stem = 687mm overall

My XTC ETT is 614mm and runs an 80/90mm stem (can't remember which) so is quite comparable to the Grand Canyon..

I was lucky with the Spectral as I went to the Factory/Showroom in Germany to try it before buying...

I've ordered Stealth in a Medium. I'm 6ft & ride with a 76.5cm saddle height (BB/top of saddle). I input my measurements into the Canyon sizing tool & it recommended the Medium, although apparently it has a "habit" of downsizing folk....the clincher was I set my mates bike up to my measurements & it just didn't look right....sat in as opposed to sat on? It felt OK riding around but huge. I'm right on the cusp between M & L with the other "big" brands too so I thought I'd go with the smaller frame size & see. If it's not right it'll go back. Plenty of debate on various forums regarding GC sizing, the majority of people my height opted for the medium, everyone's different though so I guess I'll wait & see once it turns up.

[S10GTA]

I've a carbon MTB and every time I take it out I am amazed by it. Incredible machine.

[P-Jay]

I wanted a Carbon MTB, but ultimately went for Alloy, Carbon is lovely, but it's not really a game changer I rode Carbon and Alloy versions of my new bike, I couldn't tell the difference, there's nothing in the weight, on paper it looks like it would be, but all built up the weight difference is a pretty small percentage, the geometry is exactly the same, I do lose internal cable routing for the brakes and gears though, I would have liked that.

Saved myself a grand-ish, had to say exactly as the Carbon comes with higher spec parts, but the actually ticket price difference is £2k.

[WestyCarl]

P-Jay said:

I wanted a Carbon MTB, but ultimately went for Alloy, Carbon is lovely, but it's not really a game changer I rode Carbon and Alloy versions of my new bike, I couldn't tell the difference, there's nothing in the weight, on paper it looks like it would be, but all built up the weight difference is a pretty small percentage, the geometry is exactly the same, I do lose internal cable routing for the brakes and gears though, I would have liked that.

Saved myself a grand-ish, had to say exactly as the Carbon comes with higher spec parts, but the actually ticket price difference is £2k.

I though that until I rode a bike designed for carbon, not just an carbon version of an alloy bike. Frankly one 30 min ride was enough for me to completely change my mind about what type bike I'll get next.

[BadgerBenji]

Got carbon for xc racing, but for the kind of riding you describe my go to bike is 853 steel, it's just such a pleasant ride.

[tjdixon911]

Thanks for all the responses.

Going away from the original and looking back towards the Santa Cruz highball, if I could build the following spec bike for circa £1500 (mostly new) would it be worth it?

Santa Cruz Highball frame (Alloy)
RS Reba RLT 120mm travel
SRAM GX 1x11 groupset
SRAM Guide R Brakes
Mavic wheels (to be upgraded)
Superstar Carbon Bars
60mm non descript stem.

[Kermit power]

BadgerBenji said:

Got carbon for xc racing, but for the kind of riding you describe my go to bike is 853 steel, it's just such a pleasant ride.

Exactly my thinking. I built up a Cove Handjob, and whilst it might be a bit heavier, it's absolutely gorgeous to ride!

My full susser is aluminium, and I'm perfectly happy with that, but for a hardtail, the only choice for me would be carbon or steel, and at 110kgs and no intention to go racing, steel would win every time.

As for that spec you've suggested, looks nice, but I've just heard too many horror stories about Avid brakes to go for anything but Shimano on that particular component.

[LasseV]

tjdixon911 said:

Thanks for all the responses.

Going away from the original and looking back towards the Santa Cruz highball, if I could build the following spec bike for circa £1500 (mostly new) would it be worth it?

Santa Cruz Highball frame (Alloy)
RS Reba RLT 120mm travel
SRAM GX 1x11 groupset
SRAM Guide R Brakes
Mavic wheels (to be upgraded)
Superstar Carbon Bars
60mm non descript stem.

Absolutely yes! Looks good man. I have a custom build Santa Cruz Heckler and i love it. They are very good frames (handles sweetly) with good warranty so i can recommend for you. I have heard/seen few horror stories from Canyon frames from my friends. It isn't your only bike so it is not that big issue if you have to sent the frame to Germany because of warranty claims. But still, SC edges Canyon in warranty and longevity.

Alloy vs carbon? Hard to say, i went with alloy frame because it does handle better those situations when you randomly crash and frame hit to rocks. I ride that new thingy, enduuurooooo and alloy frames are holding their own when going down. Actually MOST of my friends new bikes are still alloy framed, like all kind of banshee's, SC's etc. Carbon frames are awesome, but they have those two downsides: price and possibly cracking in weird crash in rocks.

[tjdixon911]

Kermit power said:

Exactly my thinking. I built up a Cove Handjob, and whilst it might be a bit heavier, it's absolutely gorgeous to ride!

My full susser is aluminium, and I'm perfectly happy with that, but for a hardtail, the only choice for me would be carbon or steel, and at 110kgs and no intention to go racing, steel would win every time.

As for that spec you've suggested, looks nice, but I've just heard too many horror stories about Avid brakes to go for anything but Shimano on that particular component.

I've suffered the Avid brakes horrors in the past - I thought they were past that now? I have the Guide R's on the spectral and :touchwood: they are/have been fine to date... I've just got an opportunity to obtain these parts at a good price...

[paulmon]

tjdixon911 said:

Thanks for all the responses.

Going away from the original and looking back towards the Santa Cruz highball, if I could build the following spec bike for circa £1500 (mostly new) would it be worth it?

Santa Cruz Highball frame (Alloy)
RS Reba RLT 120mm travel
SRAM GX 1x11 groupset
SRAM Guide R Brakes
Mavic wheels (to be upgraded)
Superstar Carbon Bars
60mm non descript stem.

I'd consider looking a 2x11 if I where you. I ordered a 1x11 and then sent it back to change it to a 2x11. I don't think 1x11 offers the right range of gears for this type of bike. When I had 1x10 on it I was always down the bottom end of the cassette and often found myself spinning out. The 2x11 adds a bit more faf but is better suited to longer XC type of rides.

P

[LasseV]

paulmon said:

I'd consider looking a 2x11 if I where you. I ordered a 1x11 and then sent it back to change it to a 2x11. I don't think 1x11 offers the right range of gears for this type of bike. When I had 1x10 on it I was always down the bottom end of the cassette and often found myself spinning out. The 2x11 adds a bit more faf but is better suited to longer XC type of rides.

P

Yeah, i think you are right. I have now 1x11 xt groupset but i haven't driven it yet. However, Shimano thinks that 2x11 is the future because of more varied gear range. I'v noticed when i did have 3x10 that first guys who was pushing bikes in uphill was 1x10 or 1x11 dudes... Going enduro 1x11 is great i believe.

[S10GTA]

I've 2 x 10 on mine and its perfect. Wouldn't want 1 x 10/11.