Magneto issue on my Lagonda - HELP!
Discussion
I had an ignition problem and I worked it back to the Magneto which was reconditioned only a couple of years ago. The Magneto (I think bendix) had a little grub in the top of the cowling that fixed the condenser on the inside of the cowling neatly on the roof above the coil. On inspecting the inside of the Magneto I found said small grub screw (sheared) and a condenser that had worked its way lose and hence there was a short across the magneto. Now this seems fine and a simple replacement, However....
......I also understand that there is a condenser in the middle of the coil. Speaking to my more than capable engineering assistant of the time he informs me that after having bobbed about internally the exterior condenser more than likely would have blown itself and also blown the 'internal' condenser.
Please can anyone assist me with suggesting the best course of action. If the internal condenser inside the coil has blown then should I just forget about it and replace it with a suitable external (external to coil but inside the magneto cowling) one to do the job? A replacement for this seems the best course of action?
I am guessing a fairly standard 12 V one as per the pic can be found in Halfords??
Many Many thanks!
I doubt Halfrauds would know what a condenser was these days - and, in the unlikely event they could supply one, it'd probably be abysmal quality (as most are now, since they're very very niche).
You should be able to check the capacitance across the condenser if you've got a suitable multimeter. If it's a short, then snip the wire to it and connect one in place of it. If it's open-circuit, then just connect one.
But would an external generic condenser look a bit silly on the side of the mag on something as lovely as that...?
You should be able to check the capacitance across the condenser if you've got a suitable multimeter. If it's a short, then snip the wire to it and connect one in place of it. If it's open-circuit, then just connect one.
But would an external generic condenser look a bit silly on the side of the mag on something as lovely as that...?
I'm not likely to be any direct help...but...
Did the Lagonda have a magneto originally? They are self contained spark generators and use no elastictrickery like condensers.
What you seem to have is coil/distributor which could have been created by modifying the original magneto just to act as a distributor and then the spark generated in the coil - I've seen a few of these where people have had magneto trouble. Alternatively maybe Lagonda always use coil/distributors
There - no use at all just a bunch of questions
Did the Lagonda have a magneto originally? They are self contained spark generators and use no elastictrickery like condensers.
What you seem to have is coil/distributor which could have been created by modifying the original magneto just to act as a distributor and then the spark generated in the coil - I've seen a few of these where people have had magneto trouble. Alternatively maybe Lagonda always use coil/distributors
There - no use at all just a bunch of questions
TooMany2cvs said:
I doubt Halfrauds would know what a condenser was these days - and, in the unlikely event they could supply one, it'd probably be abysmal quality (as most are now, since they're very very niche).
You should be able to check the capacitance across the condenser if you've got a suitable multimeter. If it's a short, then snip the wire to it and connect one in place of it. If it's open-circuit, then just connect one.
But would an external generic condenser look a bit silly on the side of the mag on something as lovely as that...?
I went to Halfords around ten years ago for a condensor for a Triumph 2000. Blank stares all round...You should be able to check the capacitance across the condenser if you've got a suitable multimeter. If it's a short, then snip the wire to it and connect one in place of it. If it's open-circuit, then just connect one.
But would an external generic condenser look a bit silly on the side of the mag on something as lovely as that...?
Willhire89 said:
They are self contained spark generators and use no elastictrickery like external condensers.
I understand that they do have an internal condenser, and the high unregulated voltages is one of the cause of failure of some modern condensers.I'd suggest you have a talk with one of the magneto specialists. Some people swear by their favourites, and at others. My current one was supplied by Donald Day, others have been re-wound by Alan Fairbrother. (http://www.magneto-ignition.co.uk/) The in-laws use Tony Stairs, but be prepared for the wait.
I did talk with a new chap - who has been doing magnetos in house for a (different) Bentley restorer - up at Bicester last year, he was showing the epoxy-ing in of the condenser. Might be worth giving Carl a bell, see https://twitter.com/VMagnetos
Bill from Brightspark Magnetos was very helpful he said:
Hello there,
That looks to me like a magneto with a rotating magnet and a fixed coil. Fixed coil magnetos only have an external condenser, so there won't be one inside the winding I'm pretty sure. They are found hidden away there on rotating coil instruments, where the magnet is static.
The best thing to do is to see if the HT coil is continuous by placing a meter from the HT 'bobble' on the coil (that feeds the distributor) to the magneto body. You should see about 6000 ohms, maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less. If it's continuous, it's a good start! If it was rewound recently, it jolly well ought to be OK still!
The condenser would be about 0.22 micro-Farad or 220nF capacitance, pretty much what the little cylindrical thing in the pic probably has. It needs to be in parallel with the contact breaker, ie one end to 'earth' and the wire connected to the low tension (primary) live side. You should be able to test by sustitution quite easily be obtaining a new one from a car spares shop. Something for a Morris Minor or old Mini would do the job almost for sure. Or we could supply one of our 'Universal' ones of 220nF capacitance, which would need a bit of fettling to cut and file to a suitable shape. See http://www.brightsparkmagnetos.com/easycap/univers...
If the condenser was not properly attached to earth, that might be all that is wrong with the magneto. Suggest screwing the thing back on and seeing if sparks are restored! They are quite robust physically, there's nothing in there except rolled chemical paper etc and it's all well packaged on the inside. They fail of course, but being a bit loose might not have destroyed it - or not necessarily anyway.
Good luck!
Kind regards,
Bill
Hello there,
That looks to me like a magneto with a rotating magnet and a fixed coil. Fixed coil magnetos only have an external condenser, so there won't be one inside the winding I'm pretty sure. They are found hidden away there on rotating coil instruments, where the magnet is static.
The best thing to do is to see if the HT coil is continuous by placing a meter from the HT 'bobble' on the coil (that feeds the distributor) to the magneto body. You should see about 6000 ohms, maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less. If it's continuous, it's a good start! If it was rewound recently, it jolly well ought to be OK still!
The condenser would be about 0.22 micro-Farad or 220nF capacitance, pretty much what the little cylindrical thing in the pic probably has. It needs to be in parallel with the contact breaker, ie one end to 'earth' and the wire connected to the low tension (primary) live side. You should be able to test by sustitution quite easily be obtaining a new one from a car spares shop. Something for a Morris Minor or old Mini would do the job almost for sure. Or we could supply one of our 'Universal' ones of 220nF capacitance, which would need a bit of fettling to cut and file to a suitable shape. See http://www.brightsparkmagnetos.com/easycap/univers...
If the condenser was not properly attached to earth, that might be all that is wrong with the magneto. Suggest screwing the thing back on and seeing if sparks are restored! They are quite robust physically, there's nothing in there except rolled chemical paper etc and it's all well packaged on the inside. They fail of course, but being a bit loose might not have destroyed it - or not necessarily anyway.
Good luck!
Kind regards,
Bill
This Magneto problem has been an interesting journey. The condenser swap didn't solve my issues so I succumbed and decided to go for the nuclear option and take it to a specialist for remedial care.
A brief rummage through my old father’s docs and on a scruffy bit of paper labelled ‘Magneto’ was written ‘Tony’ and his contact details so off I go with Magneto to North London. Tony lives in a very humble part of town and works out of a shed at the bottom of his garden.
I spent a good hour chatting with Tony and I left quite saddened. In a nutshell here is a man who has dedicated 40 years of his life to magnetos. There isn't much he doesn't know and his provenance sounds like a who's who of vintage car (and airplane) clients. He is by his own admittance 'ill' and it was clear that so much of his knowledge will pass away with him.
I asked who will carry on his work but there are only 2 people left in the UK that he rated who could rewind, time and condition a magneto using the correct traditional methods and materials. So there I was, possibly one of the last to use his services feeling thoroughly disheartened that in this day and age there isn’t an apprenticeship scheme for him to train and develop someone. It is probably too late now.
By the way I don’t think Tony uses a computer let alone pistonheads so I hope I am not being indiscrete.
A brief rummage through my old father’s docs and on a scruffy bit of paper labelled ‘Magneto’ was written ‘Tony’ and his contact details so off I go with Magneto to North London. Tony lives in a very humble part of town and works out of a shed at the bottom of his garden.
I spent a good hour chatting with Tony and I left quite saddened. In a nutshell here is a man who has dedicated 40 years of his life to magnetos. There isn't much he doesn't know and his provenance sounds like a who's who of vintage car (and airplane) clients. He is by his own admittance 'ill' and it was clear that so much of his knowledge will pass away with him.
I asked who will carry on his work but there are only 2 people left in the UK that he rated who could rewind, time and condition a magneto using the correct traditional methods and materials. So there I was, possibly one of the last to use his services feeling thoroughly disheartened that in this day and age there isn’t an apprenticeship scheme for him to train and develop someone. It is probably too late now.
By the way I don’t think Tony uses a computer let alone pistonheads so I hope I am not being indiscrete.
Mr. Magoo said:
This Magneto problem has been an interesting journey. The condenser swap didn't solve my issues so I succumbed and decided to go for the nuclear option and take it to a specialist for remedial care.
A brief rummage through my old father’s docs and on a scruffy bit of paper labelled ‘Magneto’ was written ‘Tony’ and his contact details so off I go with Magneto to North London. Tony lives in a very humble part of town and works out of a shed at the bottom of his garden.
I spent a good hour chatting with Tony and I left quite saddened. In a nutshell here is a man who has dedicated 40 years of his life to magnetos. There isn't much he doesn't know and his provenance sounds like a who's who of vintage car (and airplane) clients. He is by his own admittance 'ill' and it was clear that so much of his knowledge will pass away with him.
I asked who will carry on his work but there are only 2 people left in the UK that he rated who could rewind, time and condition a magneto using the correct traditional methods and materials. So there I was, possibly one of the last to use his services feeling thoroughly disheartened that in this day and age there isn’t an apprenticeship scheme for him to train and develop someone. It is probably too late now.
By the way I don’t think Tony uses a computer let alone pistonheads so I hope I am not being indiscrete.
Hi mr. MagooA brief rummage through my old father’s docs and on a scruffy bit of paper labelled ‘Magneto’ was written ‘Tony’ and his contact details so off I go with Magneto to North London. Tony lives in a very humble part of town and works out of a shed at the bottom of his garden.
I spent a good hour chatting with Tony and I left quite saddened. In a nutshell here is a man who has dedicated 40 years of his life to magnetos. There isn't much he doesn't know and his provenance sounds like a who's who of vintage car (and airplane) clients. He is by his own admittance 'ill' and it was clear that so much of his knowledge will pass away with him.
I asked who will carry on his work but there are only 2 people left in the UK that he rated who could rewind, time and condition a magneto using the correct traditional methods and materials. So there I was, possibly one of the last to use his services feeling thoroughly disheartened that in this day and age there isn’t an apprenticeship scheme for him to train and develop someone. It is probably too late now.
By the way I don’t think Tony uses a computer let alone pistonheads so I hope I am not being indiscrete.
Jug to let you know I stumbled across tony stairs number through a thread I posted and some other sources and fingers crossed he has received my mag for repair today.
Chatted on the phone for an hour. He mentioned he was not in the best of health but that he likes to keep busy and not get under the wife’s feet. So he offered to take a look and hopefully repair it
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