When you lose the belief
Discussion
I thought I'd share some rambling thoughts to a bunch of strangers, as often they have the best ideas!
I'm just about to start my 6th full year in my current job. The background being we were a company of about 60 globally when I started, I opened the UK office and played a role into our expansion in the US. Since then we have merged with a company in the US who were listed, were bought out by VCs and now they have set themselves a target of 3x value in 4-6 years.
All going well you might think. However, the last year or so I've been fighting for an improvement in my contract, I've failed and I'm still on the same terms as when I joined, albeit it at the time the terms were generous, but they are now (as I see it) in line with where I fit within the company and similar roles within the industry.
Now, with the management team we have, I've lost all faith that they are the ones who are actually going to take us on. They were great when we were small aggressive and quite radical, but to me and many others they seem to be out of their depth at the moment and some of the decisions they are making are odd to say the least. I won't go into details, but the impact it's had on me is that I've lost the passion and enjoyment I used to have for working for the company. It feels like others have been put in more senior roles from outside the company and I've been left a bit in the wilderness with my role.
Also, recently an apparently small band of about 5 people were handed deals about equity, which turns out to be a profit incentive scheme. However, they can't tell us what it's worth and they can't tell us when it will pay out, or if it will pay out anything at all. It's sort of an invisible carrot on a stick.
So, with all this, plus a young family who I give up time with to work the hours and travel as I do. I'm starting to think, is it worth it. More and more the answer becomes no. However, I've been in a position like this before and have left, and have a degree of regret. When I took this, the fact that I started the company to me always made it more personal, I thought this was my chance to build, grow and forge a proper career. So it's extremely hard to view things in this way.
So have people here been through buy-outs and radical changes? What about having job you loved and slowly having that belief and enjoyment removed from your everyday tasks and life? Should I just shut up and get on with it, ignore the lack of family time and remember that I'm there to provide for my family?
I'm just about to start my 6th full year in my current job. The background being we were a company of about 60 globally when I started, I opened the UK office and played a role into our expansion in the US. Since then we have merged with a company in the US who were listed, were bought out by VCs and now they have set themselves a target of 3x value in 4-6 years.
All going well you might think. However, the last year or so I've been fighting for an improvement in my contract, I've failed and I'm still on the same terms as when I joined, albeit it at the time the terms were generous, but they are now (as I see it) in line with where I fit within the company and similar roles within the industry.
Now, with the management team we have, I've lost all faith that they are the ones who are actually going to take us on. They were great when we were small aggressive and quite radical, but to me and many others they seem to be out of their depth at the moment and some of the decisions they are making are odd to say the least. I won't go into details, but the impact it's had on me is that I've lost the passion and enjoyment I used to have for working for the company. It feels like others have been put in more senior roles from outside the company and I've been left a bit in the wilderness with my role.
Also, recently an apparently small band of about 5 people were handed deals about equity, which turns out to be a profit incentive scheme. However, they can't tell us what it's worth and they can't tell us when it will pay out, or if it will pay out anything at all. It's sort of an invisible carrot on a stick.
So, with all this, plus a young family who I give up time with to work the hours and travel as I do. I'm starting to think, is it worth it. More and more the answer becomes no. However, I've been in a position like this before and have left, and have a degree of regret. When I took this, the fact that I started the company to me always made it more personal, I thought this was my chance to build, grow and forge a proper career. So it's extremely hard to view things in this way.
So have people here been through buy-outs and radical changes? What about having job you loved and slowly having that belief and enjoyment removed from your everyday tasks and life? Should I just shut up and get on with it, ignore the lack of family time and remember that I'm there to provide for my family?
What is your role / level of influence in the company out of interest? And what is the current management teams thoughts on your contribution? Are you valued? Do they think you do a good job?
Based on what you've said, I wouldn't rush into something new, sounds like you are just a little bored / frustrated? I'd personally tackle those issues there first. If it doesn't work out, then make a move.
I've seen hundreds of people jump too soon and regret it. Only to move into other jobs with exactly the same issues. The grass isn't always greener.
Based on what you've said, I wouldn't rush into something new, sounds like you are just a little bored / frustrated? I'd personally tackle those issues there first. If it doesn't work out, then make a move.
I've seen hundreds of people jump too soon and regret it. Only to move into other jobs with exactly the same issues. The grass isn't always greener.
Thanks for the comments all
I have been trying to tackle these issues since February last year, with no success.
cat with a hat said:
Sounds like your pay and status have stagnated
You don't like the way things are moving or management.
Stagnated is a good wordYou don't like the way things are moving or management.
ReaperCushions said:
What is your role - level of influence in the company out of interest? And what is the current management teams thoughts on your contribution? Are you valued? Do they think you do a good job?
Based on what you've said, I wouldn't rush into something new, sounds like you are just a little bored - frustrated? I'd personally tackle those issues there first. If it doesn't work out, then make a move.
I've seen hundreds of people jump too soon and regret it. Only to move into other jobs with exactly the same issues. The grass isn't always greener.
My role is that I run the product output for one of our two domains. We have an R&D team of about 100 or so, and half of them work to that domain, I set the overall direction with input from our CTO who I report directly to. He seems happy with me, trusts me and is happy to leave me to work and get on with things. I would say he values me highly.Based on what you've said, I wouldn't rush into something new, sounds like you are just a little bored - frustrated? I'd personally tackle those issues there first. If it doesn't work out, then make a move.
I've seen hundreds of people jump too soon and regret it. Only to move into other jobs with exactly the same issues. The grass isn't always greener.
I have been trying to tackle these issues since February last year, with no success.
NDA said:
Where are you based? If you're in London would be happy to meet for a pint - I've been through this a few times, having led MBO's, acquired and sold businesses. I might have a view that could help.
West London, if I go central for any reason, I will give you a nudge. ThanksGlenMH said:
Particularly if the emotional contract with your current employer is broken - which the OP is certainly describing.
This is the best description of how I feel. I have a strong attachment to what I have achieved and given, but like you say that emotional contract is what's been broken. This is why it's so hard, as it's not a logical decision, it's very much based in the emotive part.theboyfold said:
This is the best description of how I feel. I have a strong attachment to what I have achieved and given, but like you say that emotional contract is what's been broken. This is why it's so hard, as it's not a logical decision, it's very much based in the emotive part.
The key question here is: could the organisation change something (pay, conditions, hours, job, boss etc etc) that would make you fall in love with it again? If the answer is no, then the next logical step is starting a job search. If the answer is yes, then that is what you need to ask for. If they can't accommodate that, then the path ahead is also obvious.You need to believe in an organisation and its aims for you to give your best and it sounds as if that is no longer the case for you.
I have very often come into contact with emloyees who don't understand that their relationship with their employer is a two-way thing. I'm not suggesting that you're one of them, but my approach would be to discuss the matter with my boss (and others, if appropriate in your company).
If you're valued, then you have an opportunity to renegotiate your contract. If you're not, then you've lost nothing, and you can walk away knowing that you didn't leave something that could have improved.
The discussion of what you do, and what they pay you for it is a business discussion, same as any negotiation with a customer or supplier. You're in the position of strength, because you have skills they don't have elsewhere. Use that power to improve your situation. If they fail to recognise the asset that you represent, then you're better off out.
If you're valued, then you have an opportunity to renegotiate your contract. If you're not, then you've lost nothing, and you can walk away knowing that you didn't leave something that could have improved.
The discussion of what you do, and what they pay you for it is a business discussion, same as any negotiation with a customer or supplier. You're in the position of strength, because you have skills they don't have elsewhere. Use that power to improve your situation. If they fail to recognise the asset that you represent, then you're better off out.
GlenMH said:
The key question here is: could the organisation change something (pay, conditions, hours, job, boss etc etc) that would make you fall in love with it again? If the answer is no, then the next logical step is starting a job search. If the answer is yes, then that is what you need to ask for. If they can't accommodate that, then the path ahead is also obvious.
You need to believe in an organisation and its aims for you to give your best and it sounds as if that is no longer the case for you.
I've been trying to work this out, and a smaller / medium pay increase isn't what I'm looking for. The main thing that I would want, would be for the management to accept that we are investing in the wrong places and various other 'stuff'. I doubt that will happen. You need to believe in an organisation and its aims for you to give your best and it sounds as if that is no longer the case for you.
From a personal point of view, I'd like to see that they are actually willing to invest in personal development of the staff, so having a review structure and engaging with people in the team. I'd like to see that people are rewarded for hard work, not just selling. It's just about valuing the staff and making them feel part of team. Which personally I don't think it too much to ask.
Doofus said:
I have very often come into contact with emloyees who don't understand that their relationship with their employer is a two-way thing. I'm not suggesting that you're one of them, but my approach would be to discuss the matter with my boss (and others, if appropriate in your company).
If you're valued, then you have an opportunity to renegotiate your contract. If you're not, then you've lost nothing, and you can walk away knowing that you didn't leave something that could have improved.
The discussion of what you do, and what they pay you for it is a business discussion, same as any negotiation with a customer or supplier. You're in the position of strength, because you have skills they don't have elsewhere. Use that power to improve your situation. If they fail to recognise the asset that you represent, then you're better off out.
The thing is that I've tried, Feb last year I opened the contract discussions. Everything that I was asked for (apart from clarity as to where I stood after the VC buy out) was turned down. So cost of living raises, some recognition for the work that I had done that others are now earning commission on and other points. All turned down. If you're valued, then you have an opportunity to renegotiate your contract. If you're not, then you've lost nothing, and you can walk away knowing that you didn't leave something that could have improved.
The discussion of what you do, and what they pay you for it is a business discussion, same as any negotiation with a customer or supplier. You're in the position of strength, because you have skills they don't have elsewhere. Use that power to improve your situation. If they fail to recognise the asset that you represent, then you're better off out.
I've had chats with my CTO and the Head of HR, so I think I've exhausted all avenues. I've tried to do this correctly, remain positive and use the correct channels.
George111 said:
Evolved said:
Life's too short, move on!
This. If you're clever and motivated, articulate and able to do well then you'll find another role which will reward you.theboyfold said:
The thing is that I've tried, Feb last year I opened the contract discussions. Everything that I was asked for (apart from clarity as to where I stood after the VC buy out) was turned down. So cost of living raises, some recognition for the work that I had done that others are now earning commission on and other points. All turned down.
I've had chats with my CTO and the Head of HR, so I think I've exhausted all avenues. I've tried to do this correctly, remain positive and use the correct channels.
tI've had chats with my CTO and the Head of HR, so I think I've exhausted all avenues. I've tried to do this correctly, remain positive and use the correct channels.
Well I know what I'd be doing then... I believe that once you lose heart, there's no coming back. Working with arses is one thing, usually one can deal with that. But once you've decided you might be better off elsewhere, then you've effectively already left.
Doofus said:
Well I know what I'd be doing then... I believe that once you lose heart, there's no coming back. Working with arses is one thing, usually one can deal with that. But once you've decided you might be better off elsewhere, then you've effectively already left.
Yep. That's my feeling as well. It's s
t as I'd hoped and felt that this was the long term one forWhat does your contract say about notice period and non compete? You might be better off giving your notice now in order to free you up earlier. You might be lucky if you've worked there so long that you don't have a non compete clause, as it sounds as if the ideas you have would be quite valuable to a competitor.
Your notice on the desk if the CTO might concentrate their minds but it does sound like you and your employer are worlds away from agreeing direction etc.
Your notice on the desk if the CTO might concentrate their minds but it does sound like you and your employer are worlds away from agreeing direction etc.
elanfan said:
What does your contract say about notice period and non compete? You might be better off giving your notice now in order to free you up earlier. You might be lucky if you've worked there so long that you don't have a non compete clause, as it sounds as if the ideas you have would be quite valuable to a competitor.
Your notice on the desk if the CTO might concentrate their minds but it does sound like you and your employer are worlds away from agreeing direction etc.
Oddly with my new contract it went from 3 months to 1 month (my redundancy period also took a big hit). I think it has a non-compete, but that's pretty much unenforceable in my eyes. Your notice on the desk if the CTO might concentrate their minds but it does sound like you and your employer are worlds away from agreeing direction etc.
theboyfold said:
I think it has a non-compete, but that's pretty much unenforceable in my eyes.
Be very careful about that. It has been brought up on here a few times and I pretty sure that the advice given by BreadVan etc is to have it reviewed by a legal expert to see if it holds any water. Do not blindly ignore it; others have been taken to court over it and lost.Ask BV if he can recommend anyone local to you. At least you'll know for certain whether it could bite you in the ass.
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