Budget Rallying.
Discussion
Any advice on starting rallying?
Both me and my mate are quite tasty drivers, done a few racing school days etc.
We have a mechanically perfect, but scabby as hell Pug 205GTI at our disposal.
Whats the score on getting the car prepped, licenses etc...
Do we need race suits helmets etc for low end stuff?
Does it have to cost the earth like circuit racing?
Ta
Both me and my mate are quite tasty drivers, done a few racing school days etc.
We have a mechanically perfect, but scabby as hell Pug 205GTI at our disposal.
Whats the score on getting the car prepped, licenses etc...
Do we need race suits helmets etc for low end stuff?
Does it have to cost the earth like circuit racing?
Ta
Depends on what you want to do...
First of all, join you local car club, they will probably organise 12 car rallies which is about as cheap as it gets (i.e. No cage, no hats, no suits, no MSA license, pretty much any car) and is more focused on navigation than pure speed because they're held on the road at night (RTA DOES apply). It's reasonable, non-life threatening fun that will help you get a feel for how driver and co-driver will get on in a car and see whether either of you will get carsick when reading maps. These babies normally cost around 10-20 quid to enter and are held over the september to april time of year.
Another option is Eduro rallying which has quite a cut down formula, but I've never done one so I can't advise, you're supposed to be able to put a car for one together for around 1000 quid but the only reference I can find is a kit for 2790 for a Pug 106 Enduro kit in this weeks Motorsport News.
Next step Single venue or proper Multi-venue (sorry to sound snobby but I don't get excited by straw bales). If you want to do this, my recommedation is that you would probably be better off buying a second (or 3rd or 4th) hand rally car, my reasoning being that my driver and I built our Astra from scratch, we bought it for 300 quid (299 if you discount the pound coin found under the rear seat when I gutted it!), but we spent 1000's on it!!! Just the starting point is:
Cage
Fire Extinguisher
Seats
Belts
Intercom
Helmets
Racesuits
Then if you want to get a bit more serious there's seam welding, shocks, springs, tuning, sump guard, tripmeter, straight cut gearbox, slippy diff, proper wheels, spot lights etc.
When you're through stripping the car down to basics you've got one hell of a lot of work to do to get it back together. It took us 4 months and that is with every tool known to man (my driver is in the trade), I mean everything, MIG, TIG, grinders, folders, lathes, everything and we used absolutely everything!
Building a rally car is a labour of love and if I'd known then what I know now, I would have quite happily chucked a few grand in the pot and bought a ready prepped car, which is exactly what we have done with the scooby, just a bit of tweaking, much less grief and cost, although a grand for a front diff stung a bit!
Once you have a car, you need a licence, for which you now have to do a test, namely a BARDS test, this will cost money although having never done one I don't know how much. Only the driver needs to do the test, unless you want to take it in turns. Both of the crew need a licence, Rally National B Stage for the driver, Rally National B Navigator for a non-driving co-driver, these also cost money and need to be renewed each year.
Now for events, I'm doing a single-venue (I know I looked down my nose at them earlier) but as a driver for the first time, the entry fee is £190, then there are tyres, fuel, transport, oil etc on top of that, and this is supposed to be cheap!
Have I put you off yet?
National B Multi-venue Stage Rallying, entry fees around 400 quid this year (inc insurance and sundries), stage maps/route notes anywhere from 25-50 quid a pop. The same tyres, fuel, transport but with possibly accomodation for you, your teammate and the service crew, because you will need one of those!
I conservatively estimate that I spent £7000 on entries, maps, notes and accomodation last year to contest the East Midlands championship and the BTRDA Silkolene 1400, and that's even with not doing every round. The figure above does NOT include the mechanicals and spares, or tyres (use alot of those you do) or fuel or oil or replacement windscreens, windows, doors, entire sides of the car etc
Are you still here?
It gets worse! National A Rallying, bigger entry fee, more stage miles, not done one yet because I only upgraded my licence this year, although I qualify for an International I doubt even my pocket could stand a season in BRC so it's not worth the extra few quid for that upgrade.
Alright, then we get to British Rally Championship, International status event, championship registration fees cheapest 100+VAT for driver, 50+VAT for co-driver, entry fees for events likely to be around £800 each this year, longer events (multiple days and rece mileage) mean more accommodation costs, transport, petrol. We're talking oodles of bunce and some very understanding mates to work as your service crew to contest this.
And then there is just plain silly Wales Rally GB, obligatory homologated car, 2 grand plus entry fee, controlled everything, tyres, fuel etc and this means you pay the earth for fuel from the official supplier. I know a guy who did this event last year, he budgeted 10k and spent 12k, that doesn't include the 50k car (which is relatively cheap as far as things go, well compared to a WRC car anyway)
So there you have it, if you've made it this far then it is worth bearing in mind that you haven't even done the tricky bit yet, y'know, that bit where you drive a car like nutters through a forest with a guy shouting at you!
Rallying makes track days look like small change, to do it and do it well takes vast resources, both time and money (mostly money). The driver must be posessed... of, no, leave it as posessed. The co-driver must be able to do sums, read a map and tell the driver how everyone else is doing compared to him at the same time as holding a conversation with the service crew to advise of any damage and still remember to breathe, failure to perform at 110% is punishable by death, literally. The only good thing is that you don't get time to be scared, you're too damned busy. So why do I do it? I don't effing know, I guess I've started so I'll just have to finish.
If you do start Rallying, prepare to become addicted to it and forget any thoughts of a summer holiday for the next millenium!
Sorry that I seem to have ranted on for quite a while.
First of all, join you local car club, they will probably organise 12 car rallies which is about as cheap as it gets (i.e. No cage, no hats, no suits, no MSA license, pretty much any car) and is more focused on navigation than pure speed because they're held on the road at night (RTA DOES apply). It's reasonable, non-life threatening fun that will help you get a feel for how driver and co-driver will get on in a car and see whether either of you will get carsick when reading maps. These babies normally cost around 10-20 quid to enter and are held over the september to april time of year.
Another option is Eduro rallying which has quite a cut down formula, but I've never done one so I can't advise, you're supposed to be able to put a car for one together for around 1000 quid but the only reference I can find is a kit for 2790 for a Pug 106 Enduro kit in this weeks Motorsport News.
Next step Single venue or proper Multi-venue (sorry to sound snobby but I don't get excited by straw bales). If you want to do this, my recommedation is that you would probably be better off buying a second (or 3rd or 4th) hand rally car, my reasoning being that my driver and I built our Astra from scratch, we bought it for 300 quid (299 if you discount the pound coin found under the rear seat when I gutted it!), but we spent 1000's on it!!! Just the starting point is:
Cage
Fire Extinguisher
Seats
Belts
Intercom
Helmets
Racesuits
Then if you want to get a bit more serious there's seam welding, shocks, springs, tuning, sump guard, tripmeter, straight cut gearbox, slippy diff, proper wheels, spot lights etc.
When you're through stripping the car down to basics you've got one hell of a lot of work to do to get it back together. It took us 4 months and that is with every tool known to man (my driver is in the trade), I mean everything, MIG, TIG, grinders, folders, lathes, everything and we used absolutely everything!
Building a rally car is a labour of love and if I'd known then what I know now, I would have quite happily chucked a few grand in the pot and bought a ready prepped car, which is exactly what we have done with the scooby, just a bit of tweaking, much less grief and cost, although a grand for a front diff stung a bit!
Once you have a car, you need a licence, for which you now have to do a test, namely a BARDS test, this will cost money although having never done one I don't know how much. Only the driver needs to do the test, unless you want to take it in turns. Both of the crew need a licence, Rally National B Stage for the driver, Rally National B Navigator for a non-driving co-driver, these also cost money and need to be renewed each year.
Now for events, I'm doing a single-venue (I know I looked down my nose at them earlier) but as a driver for the first time, the entry fee is £190, then there are tyres, fuel, transport, oil etc on top of that, and this is supposed to be cheap!
Have I put you off yet?
National B Multi-venue Stage Rallying, entry fees around 400 quid this year (inc insurance and sundries), stage maps/route notes anywhere from 25-50 quid a pop. The same tyres, fuel, transport but with possibly accomodation for you, your teammate and the service crew, because you will need one of those!
I conservatively estimate that I spent £7000 on entries, maps, notes and accomodation last year to contest the East Midlands championship and the BTRDA Silkolene 1400, and that's even with not doing every round. The figure above does NOT include the mechanicals and spares, or tyres (use alot of those you do) or fuel or oil or replacement windscreens, windows, doors, entire sides of the car etc
Are you still here?
It gets worse! National A Rallying, bigger entry fee, more stage miles, not done one yet because I only upgraded my licence this year, although I qualify for an International I doubt even my pocket could stand a season in BRC so it's not worth the extra few quid for that upgrade.
Alright, then we get to British Rally Championship, International status event, championship registration fees cheapest 100+VAT for driver, 50+VAT for co-driver, entry fees for events likely to be around £800 each this year, longer events (multiple days and rece mileage) mean more accommodation costs, transport, petrol. We're talking oodles of bunce and some very understanding mates to work as your service crew to contest this.
And then there is just plain silly Wales Rally GB, obligatory homologated car, 2 grand plus entry fee, controlled everything, tyres, fuel etc and this means you pay the earth for fuel from the official supplier. I know a guy who did this event last year, he budgeted 10k and spent 12k, that doesn't include the 50k car (which is relatively cheap as far as things go, well compared to a WRC car anyway)
So there you have it, if you've made it this far then it is worth bearing in mind that you haven't even done the tricky bit yet, y'know, that bit where you drive a car like nutters through a forest with a guy shouting at you!
Rallying makes track days look like small change, to do it and do it well takes vast resources, both time and money (mostly money). The driver must be posessed... of, no, leave it as posessed. The co-driver must be able to do sums, read a map and tell the driver how everyone else is doing compared to him at the same time as holding a conversation with the service crew to advise of any damage and still remember to breathe, failure to perform at 110% is punishable by death, literally. The only good thing is that you don't get time to be scared, you're too damned busy. So why do I do it? I don't effing know, I guess I've started so I'll just have to finish.
If you do start Rallying, prepare to become addicted to it and forget any thoughts of a summer holiday for the next millenium!
Sorry that I seem to have ranted on for quite a while.
there is a chap on pistonheads who is something to do with www.giveitdeath.co.uk not sure if he is a driver/co-driver or paddock crew but their web site has a very sobering event caluclator which gives a good realistic guide to costs...
and what teamd said....
www.giveitdeath.com/1st_time_rallying.xls
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 24th February 18:25
and what teamd said....
www.giveitdeath.com/1st_time_rallying.xls
>> Edited by anonymous-user on Thursday 24th February 18:25
TeamD said:
If you do start Rallying, prepare to become addicted to it and forget any thoughts of a summer holiday for the next millenium!
Team D is absolutely correct.
We only do BTRDA stuff but at a basic level budget about £800 per event. The new licence test is a standard rate I think its £160, there is a list of rally schools on msaorg.uk.
There are some battered cars out there, and I would say preperation is key,you don't want to spend £600 getting to an event and break down after 100 yards! The worst thing we did though was total our last car, that does hurt the wallet!
However don't get to down hearted. Its worth every penny, the shear buzz of going through a forest at 80+ is amazing. I co-drive and love it, it is a true buzz. The wife doesn't have my enthusiasm. Rally folk are the most down to earth friendly bunch you could ever meet. Also if you split the cost with your driver/co-driver that helps. Bear in mind you get into rally mode the week before then spend 2 days at an event, 1 of those pretty much all day in the car, it is well worth it compared to track days etc.
Good luck with what ever you decide....go for it.
We (well we use to as I'm off to Canada) use to rally a old Mini in the Southern Single Venue Rally Championship.
Probably spent less than £4k on it in 3 years. Sometimes it would just cost us entry fees and food for the day.
We found with the small class under 1400 there wasnt as much competition, and not everyone would turn up for all the rounds, so you could do a select few rounds and still have a chance of winning your class championship.
As you go up the classes, then the competition gets more expensive and its harder to compete.
Our (out of date) website www.leighrallying.co.uk will give you an idea of how we did it
Probably spent less than £4k on it in 3 years. Sometimes it would just cost us entry fees and food for the day.
We found with the small class under 1400 there wasnt as much competition, and not everyone would turn up for all the rounds, so you could do a select few rounds and still have a chance of winning your class championship.
As you go up the classes, then the competition gets more expensive and its harder to compete.
Our (out of date) website www.leighrallying.co.uk will give you an idea of how we did it
There's a couple of car clubs in Kent, try www.sevenoaksmotorclub.com, they have quite a healthy 12-car chapmionship, and they organise other events (PCT's, sprints, hillclimbs, and a single venue stage rally at Longcross)
rallysanf said:
We only do BTRDA stuff...
Were you out last year?
As mentioned we did the Silkolene 1400 in a B9 Astra, did alright but 3 bum results put paid to acheiving our objective of a top 10 result in the championship. Mind you, the 300 quid for the improvers award bought some brownie points when I gave my share to the missus
Might see you around as we plan to do pretty much all of the BTRDA events from North Humberside onwards.
And back to the original topic, but having just re-read my earlier post, I'd just like to maker it clear that:
Rallying is the most fun you can have with your clothes ON!
>> Edited by TeamD on Friday 25th February 09:21
TeamD said:
We only do BTRDA stuff...
Were you out last year?
Rallying is the most fun you can have with your clothes ON!
>> Edited by TeamD on Friday 25th February 09:21
No our last time out was 2001. We had a 106 in grp N1. On the last stage of the Woodpecker we rolled it, went over about 4 times on Haye Park. Then job, kids etc took over. Sold what was left, tried building a 106 GTi, sold that, bought the Mazda, looking forward to this year.
Thats really the only down side of rallying, costs of accidents. It is a truly great sport, even spectating, except what is now the RAC, but thats a different issue.....
Also buy Motorsport News not Autosport, its far more rally focused.
rallysanf said:
Thats really the only down side of rallying, costs of accidents. It is a truly great sport, even spectating, except what is now the RAC, but thats a different issue.....
Also buy Motorsport News not Autosport, its far more rally focused.
Seconded on MN, Autosport just really doesn't seem to acknowledge that anything below BRC exists.
As for accidents, We had a little altercation with a fence post on the Somerset Stages last year and that required us cutting the entirety of one side of of the car to repair it! Mind you, we managed to turn in around in 2 weeks and were back out on the next event to the surprise of our fellow BTRDA competitors!
But then again, the Astra was a piece of cake to work on compared to the scooby, jeez, we had the gearbox off last night to fit a new front diff, is that thing the work of an unbalanced mind or what?
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