CCTV does not stop crime
Discussion
www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/articles/16856213?version=1
CCTV 'does not stop crime'
By Ben Leapman Home Affairs Correspondent, Evening Standard
24 February 2005
Closed circuit TV systems are of little use in the fight against crime, a surprise government report claims today.
Home Office researchers who studied 14 schemes across Britain found that only one had brought a clear fall in the local crime rate.
While there was strong public support for CCTV before it was installed, opinion began to shift when people realised the cameras made little difference.
And researchers found that some of the schemes were botched, making them less effective. Six of the 14 control rooms were left unstaffed for part of the day or night. And in some cases, cameras could not capture clear images at night due to the glare from artificial lights.
The findings come as a blow to the Home Office, which has trumpeted CCTV as a key crime-fighting weapon for the past 10 years.
The report's author, Professor Martin Gill of the University of Leicester, said: "For supporters these findings are disappointing. For the most part CCTV did not produce reductions in crime and did not make
people feel safer."
The only one of the 14 schemes found to be a success was targeted at car parks, where it led to a significant drop in vehicle crime. Other schemes in city centres, residential areas and hospitals produced no clear benefits.
Professor Gill said that because government funding was available for CCTV schemes, local officials tended to fit the cameras without any clear goal in mind.
On the plus side, only one in six people objected to CCTV on civil liberties grounds.
CCTV 'does not stop crime'
By Ben Leapman Home Affairs Correspondent, Evening Standard
24 February 2005
Closed circuit TV systems are of little use in the fight against crime, a surprise government report claims today.
Home Office researchers who studied 14 schemes across Britain found that only one had brought a clear fall in the local crime rate.
While there was strong public support for CCTV before it was installed, opinion began to shift when people realised the cameras made little difference.
And researchers found that some of the schemes were botched, making them less effective. Six of the 14 control rooms were left unstaffed for part of the day or night. And in some cases, cameras could not capture clear images at night due to the glare from artificial lights.
The findings come as a blow to the Home Office, which has trumpeted CCTV as a key crime-fighting weapon for the past 10 years.
The report's author, Professor Martin Gill of the University of Leicester, said: "For supporters these findings are disappointing. For the most part CCTV did not produce reductions in crime and did not make
people feel safer."
The only one of the 14 schemes found to be a success was targeted at car parks, where it led to a significant drop in vehicle crime. Other schemes in city centres, residential areas and hospitals produced no clear benefits.
Professor Gill said that because government funding was available for CCTV schemes, local officials tended to fit the cameras without any clear goal in mind.
On the plus side, only one in six people objected to CCTV on civil liberties grounds.
I'm surprised that no-one has picked up on your post yet Catso. These cameras IMHO do nothing, the chances of someone getting caught, or of the images prompting a reaction in time are slim, and the scrotes know it.
Stabbings, Assault, Car crime? Well, we may have grainy pictures after the event but they don't stop the crime OR identify the perps.
It was, after all, an early version of "policing on the cheap" and has been proven over time to be useless. As all other later forms of "Robot" policing will be also.
Stabbings, Assault, Car crime? Well, we may have grainy pictures after the event but they don't stop the crime OR identify the perps.
It was, after all, an early version of "policing on the cheap" and has been proven over time to be useless. As all other later forms of "Robot" policing will be also.
I kinda have to disagree with that.
In the town centers it seems to work well in my area. It may not deter crime but it has enabled it to be spotted in progress and dealt with - evidencing the event and can identify the offenders.
Although the cctv works in conjunction with shop watch, where shop security radio up with a problem and the cctv tracks the offenders through the town guiding police in.
When the pubs kick out, cctv can spot trouble just before or as its happening. again alowing resources to be deployed appropriately.
CCTV in outer areas is not as effective as its mainly on record and is not minitored unless specified to do so such as a report of sus persons in a camerad area.
Bear in mind that our cctv has over 200 cameras, but only maybe 5 operators and 10 screens!
In the town centers it seems to work well in my area. It may not deter crime but it has enabled it to be spotted in progress and dealt with - evidencing the event and can identify the offenders.
Although the cctv works in conjunction with shop watch, where shop security radio up with a problem and the cctv tracks the offenders through the town guiding police in.
When the pubs kick out, cctv can spot trouble just before or as its happening. again alowing resources to be deployed appropriately.
CCTV in outer areas is not as effective as its mainly on record and is not minitored unless specified to do so such as a report of sus persons in a camerad area.
Bear in mind that our cctv has over 200 cameras, but only maybe 5 operators and 10 screens!
But it will undoubtedly be helpful in identifying huntsmen whose hounds illegally despatch a fox!
I couldn't believe the crass idea of populating the countryside with CCTV cameras to 'police' the hunting 'ban'. Mind you, there are proposals locally to use CCTV to "stamp out" fly-tipping and dog-fouling.
George Orwell was ahead of his time!
I used to think that if I had my life again, I would have wanted to be a manufacturer of temporary traffic lights or traffic cones. Now I think I'd have been better off supplying/operating CCTV systems to councils.
Much so-called 'security' is cosmetic; intended to give people a 'warm fuzzy'. And, in general, it works. One of the problems is that TV programmes such as the 'CSI' series give a totally false impression of image enhancement; I find it strange that people should believe a fiction rather than the evidence of their own eyes (e.g. CCTV images shown in 'Crimewatch' type programmes).
Just like so-called 'safety' cameras, CCTV is no substitute for BiB on the beat.
Streaky
I couldn't believe the crass idea of populating the countryside with CCTV cameras to 'police' the hunting 'ban'. Mind you, there are proposals locally to use CCTV to "stamp out" fly-tipping and dog-fouling.
George Orwell was ahead of his time!
I used to think that if I had my life again, I would have wanted to be a manufacturer of temporary traffic lights or traffic cones. Now I think I'd have been better off supplying/operating CCTV systems to councils.
Much so-called 'security' is cosmetic; intended to give people a 'warm fuzzy'. And, in general, it works. One of the problems is that TV programmes such as the 'CSI' series give a totally false impression of image enhancement; I find it strange that people should believe a fiction rather than the evidence of their own eyes (e.g. CCTV images shown in 'Crimewatch' type programmes).
Just like so-called 'safety' cameras, CCTV is no substitute for BiB on the beat.
Streaky
Mixed feelings on this one. The camera's can track suspects etc and provide valuable evidence if they are ever caught. However, where i work the locals couldn't care less. They look at the camera's laughing. The whole system is a joke to them and they know that even if our control room watches something happening on cctv, it's unlikely any of us will be free to deal with it......
autismuk said:Probably the reason trafpol are being downsized ... they're too good at what they do - i.e. making the roads safer.
The Police System does not try and stop crime any more, haven't you noticed (with the exception I think of trafpol).
It responds to it. The "proactive" part of Policing is almost non-existent these days. Sadly.
Streaky
NCP car parks CCTV are not aimed at the cars. They are all pointing to the cash machines.
From the end of the month there will be no wardens on site (I am in manchester but I belive this is uk wide) so if you have a problem, you call the main center and they send anyone out.
Great huh..?
Claire
From the end of the month there will be no wardens on site (I am in manchester but I belive this is uk wide) so if you have a problem, you call the main center and they send anyone out.
Great huh..?
Claire
I've always thought that CCTV did little to prvent crime just like Scameras, most Scrotes wear hooded sweatshirts or hats anyway.
A couple of years ago a young lad I know got a savage beating outside a local nightclub (about 150m from the Police Station). When the Cops turned up, 10 mins after it was over, they said to the lad "We thought that we were coming to pick up a body, after watching the beating on CCTV" - a brilliant example of crime prevention eh?
Don't even get me started on Scameras.
A couple of years ago a young lad I know got a savage beating outside a local nightclub (about 150m from the Police Station). When the Cops turned up, 10 mins after it was over, they said to the lad "We thought that we were coming to pick up a body, after watching the beating on CCTV" - a brilliant example of crime prevention eh?
Don't even get me started on Scameras.
catso said:
I've always thought that CCTV did little to prvent crime just like Scameras, most Scrotes wear hooded sweatshirts or hats anyway.
A couple of years ago a young lad I know got a savage beating outside a local nightclub (about 150m from the Police Station). When the Cops turned up, 10 mins after it was over, they said to the lad "We thought that we were coming to pick up a body, after watching the beating on CCTV" - a brilliant example of crime prevention eh?
Don't even get me started on Scameras.
Must have mistaken it for reality TV programme on the box. Only later did they find it was real reality and they were expected to take some action.
On the news today, only 6% of rapes are prosecuted. If that's typical of other crimes it must be a great time to be a criminal, as long as you don't speed past a camera on your getaway.
ashes said:I wish!
CCTV to stop hunting - you must be joking! (I hope....)
Quoting The Sunday Telegraph, 12 September 2004
Cameras in the trees will spy on hunts
Police are planning to use spy cameras in the countryside to enforce a ban on fox hunting.
Chief constables intend to site CCTV cameras on hedgerows, fences and trees along known hunting routes to enable them to photograph hunt members who break the law after hunting with hounds is outlawed.
Naked Countryside Alliance protestors at Chequers
The controversial measure was agreed at a secret meeting between David Blunkett and the chief constables of England and Wales after the hunting ban was announced last week.
Police chiefs warned the Home Secretary that enforcing the ban would cost in excess of £30 million and divert resources from front-line policing. The plan to use cameras was put forward as a way of detecting illegal hunts without deploying hundreds of extra police to roam the countryside.
Some senior police have voiced concern that the measure could be easily foiled by riders and foot followers donning balaclavas.
Mr Blunkett, however, was said to be enthusiastic about the idea, believing that cameras would be an affordable way of allowing police to identify where illegal hunts are taking place before moving in.
An aide said: "This is the sort of imaginative policing solution that we will need to be able to police this ban, without incurring massive extra costs."
The strategy was agreed during a meeting at the Home Office last week following the announcement that a Hunting Bill will be forced through, beginning in the Commons this week, but with its implementation delayed for two years. Opponents of the ban said the use of spy cameras would serve only to harden defiance.
End quote
Streaky
Peter Ward said:
I've always thought that CCTV did little to prvent crime just like Scameras, most Scrotes wear hooded sweatshirts or hats anyway.
A couple of years ago a young lad I know got a savage beating outside a local nightclub (about 150m from the Police Station). When the Cops turned up, 10 mins after it was over, they said to the lad "We thought that we were coming to pick up a body, after watching the beating on CCTV" - a brilliant example of crime prevention eh?
Don't even get me started on Scameras.
Must have mistaken it for reality TV programme on the box. Only later did they find it was real reality and they were expected to take some action.
On the news today, only 6% of rapes are prosecuted. If that's typical of other crimes it must be a great time to be a criminal, as long as you don't speed past a camera on your getaway.
It's not typical of over crimes no-There is a great deal of suspicion about alot of these rape claims nowdays- Witness Gone's (I think) post the other day about those he had been dealing with.
It seems to go as follows Woman gets very drunk, has sex, makes rape claim.
2 stories:
1. In october I was taking a group away to a wekend camp. Wee group of neds about 50 yards up the road shouting rubbish and being ignored. Was aware of a quick movement in my peripheral vision and turned to see a bottle flying through the air, ducked to th side and it smashed into the minibus.
Area full of cctv cameras on auto-record. I even gave the police a name (this place isn't that big!).
Result? Absolutely nothing at all... "nothing we can do sir"
2. On wednesay, get clobbered from behind by a young lad who ran up to me from a group of about 20. Lost footing in surprise, because the snow was slippy. Fell and fractured my shoulder.
Result? Absolutely nothing at all... "nothing we can do sir"
So my experience is that cctv makes no difference - the neds run the roost.
I will keep my opinion of the police service to myself but i am likely to lose the plot if i am ever stopped for scratching my bum while driving...
1. In october I was taking a group away to a wekend camp. Wee group of neds about 50 yards up the road shouting rubbish and being ignored. Was aware of a quick movement in my peripheral vision and turned to see a bottle flying through the air, ducked to th side and it smashed into the minibus.
Area full of cctv cameras on auto-record. I even gave the police a name (this place isn't that big!).
Result? Absolutely nothing at all... "nothing we can do sir"
2. On wednesay, get clobbered from behind by a young lad who ran up to me from a group of about 20. Lost footing in surprise, because the snow was slippy. Fell and fractured my shoulder.
Result? Absolutely nothing at all... "nothing we can do sir"
So my experience is that cctv makes no difference - the neds run the roost.
I will keep my opinion of the police service to myself but i am likely to lose the plot if i am ever stopped for scratching my bum while driving...
Streetcop said:
May not stop crime....but helps an awful lot in both identifying offenders and proving offences at court..
aye, right...
does that depend on whether or not the investigating officer is interested enough?
Edited to add : sorry, reading that again I realise it's a bit unfair, but I am feeling severely let down by the police system at the moment.
>> Edited by tvrgit on Friday 25th February 19:08
streaky said:
CCTV to stop hunting - you must be joking! (I hope....)
I wish!
Quoting The Sunday Telegraph, 12 September 2004
Cameras in the trees will spy on hunts
End quote
Streaky
Interesting civil liberties concept. I own some land which has been used by the local hunt, though I do not hunt myself. I would be extremely annoyed if the cops decided to stick cameras on it.
CCTV is surely just an aide to police, not a replacement.
It would be interesting to see a comparison of convictions say in a city centre before and after (a controlled study).
As for using them against fox hunting, hide them in trees and bushes! Hmm it'll not take long for these to be found out (EM signature) and quickly dispatched. Wonder how much these things cost each.
I can see the hunting ban been declared unpoliceable. Everybodys a winner, bandit blairs won cos hes bandit and the hunts continue anyway.
It would be interesting to see a comparison of convictions say in a city centre before and after (a controlled study).
As for using them against fox hunting, hide them in trees and bushes! Hmm it'll not take long for these to be found out (EM signature) and quickly dispatched. Wonder how much these things cost each.
I can see the hunting ban been declared unpoliceable. Everybodys a winner, bandit blairs won cos hes bandit and the hunts continue anyway.
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