Gen 1 or Gen 2 997 Turbo ? My first Porsche, Please Help
Discussion
Hi,
Hopefully some one can help me make a decision.
Ive waited a few years to get myself into a position to buy a used 997 Turbo, but i am not sure which model is best. I like an auto box, but it seems that most people recommend the Manuel on a Gen 1 and for a Auto on a gen 2.
From what i have read the Gen one auto gearbox is not great and a Manuel would be better.
I'm looking for a Gen1 Manuel 997 turbo or possibly a gen 2 PDK turbo. The Gen 2 is a little out of my budget. This car seems quite cheap, but why?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
This will be my first Porsche, so i want to get it right and not end up with a car full of issues....
Any tips or recommendations would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Simon
Hopefully some one can help me make a decision.
Ive waited a few years to get myself into a position to buy a used 997 Turbo, but i am not sure which model is best. I like an auto box, but it seems that most people recommend the Manuel on a Gen 1 and for a Auto on a gen 2.
From what i have read the Gen one auto gearbox is not great and a Manuel would be better.
I'm looking for a Gen1 Manuel 997 turbo or possibly a gen 2 PDK turbo. The Gen 2 is a little out of my budget. This car seems quite cheap, but why?
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
This will be my first Porsche, so i want to get it right and not end up with a car full of issues....
Any tips or recommendations would be much appreciated.
Thanks
Simon
Always buy the best you can within your budget. Doesn't matter whether gen 1 or gen 2. I personally wouldn't buy a turbo as used car without a 2 year Porsche warranty. Stick to main dealer or a specialist Indy who's willing to stick an OPC warranty on the car.
With the car you've mentioned who knows if its a good car or not. Ask the dealer if he's willing to take it to Porsche for an inspection and advise him you'll only buy it if Porsche will stand behind the car and put their own warranty on it (at your cost). If he runs for cover you know the cars probably not good enough for official warranty so walk away. OPC tend to come up with some nice cars as do RSJ, 911 Virgin, Williams Crawford, Cridfords, JZM etc. More difficult to find a good car nowadays as they're more in demand and quite a few cars have been messed with hence why I'd only go OPC. If a cars been remapped they'd reject it.
With the car you've mentioned who knows if its a good car or not. Ask the dealer if he's willing to take it to Porsche for an inspection and advise him you'll only buy it if Porsche will stand behind the car and put their own warranty on it (at your cost). If he runs for cover you know the cars probably not good enough for official warranty so walk away. OPC tend to come up with some nice cars as do RSJ, 911 Virgin, Williams Crawford, Cridfords, JZM etc. More difficult to find a good car nowadays as they're more in demand and quite a few cars have been messed with hence why I'd only go OPC. If a cars been remapped they'd reject it.
I'd avoid tiptronic if you can but if you're dead set on a self-shifter then that's what you'll get in a Gen1. PDK night&day better but I'd still have a manual if available - tho you'll find virtually no Gen2's with that transmission!
Gen1 still employed the Mezger block which some will place some store in, but in reality the Gen2 DFI unit is very reliable and of course more powerful. With either bear in mind the turbo's can need replacing and this as you might imagine is not cheap.
Worth noting that there exists a "Gen1.5" Turbo that is basically a last of the line Gen1 with updated PCM3. Late '08 - '09 cars I think.
Anecdotally, take it easy with launch control - a friend of mine had a Gen2 TurboS and inadvertantly knackered his crankshaft I think. OPC did not cough up under extended warranty...
Very solid cars though all things considered, hope you find the right one for you!
Gen1 still employed the Mezger block which some will place some store in, but in reality the Gen2 DFI unit is very reliable and of course more powerful. With either bear in mind the turbo's can need replacing and this as you might imagine is not cheap.
Worth noting that there exists a "Gen1.5" Turbo that is basically a last of the line Gen1 with updated PCM3. Late '08 - '09 cars I think.
Anecdotally, take it easy with launch control - a friend of mine had a Gen2 TurboS and inadvertantly knackered his crankshaft I think. OPC did not cough up under extended warranty...
Very solid cars though all things considered, hope you find the right one for you!
Edited by Fl0pp3r on Saturday 2nd April 17:17
9e 28 said:
Always buy the best you can within your budget. Doesn't matter whether gen 1 or gen 2. I personally wouldn't buy a turbo as used car without a 2 year Porsche warranty. Stick to main dealer or a specialist Indy who's willing to stick an OPC warranty on the car.
With the car you've mentioned who knows if its a good car or not. Ask the dealer if he's willing to take it to Porsche for an inspection and advise him you'll only buy it if Porsche will stand behind the car and put their own warranty on it (at your cost). If he runs for cover you know the cars probably not good enough for official warranty so walk away. OPC tend to come up with some nice cars as do RSJ, 911 Virgin, Williams Crawford, Cridfords, JZM etc. More difficult to find a good car nowadays as they're more in demand and quite a few cars have been messed with hence why I'd only go OPC. If a cars been remapped they'd reject it.
On that basis you wouldn't buy your own car!With the car you've mentioned who knows if its a good car or not. Ask the dealer if he's willing to take it to Porsche for an inspection and advise him you'll only buy it if Porsche will stand behind the car and put their own warranty on it (at your cost). If he runs for cover you know the cars probably not good enough for official warranty so walk away. OPC tend to come up with some nice cars as do RSJ, 911 Virgin, Williams Crawford, Cridfords, JZM etc. More difficult to find a good car nowadays as they're more in demand and quite a few cars have been messed with hence why I'd only go OPC. If a cars been remapped they'd reject it.
I agree that a potential purchase should be inspected by a specialist. I don't think the Porsche inspection is particularly good and I don't think getting a Porsche warranty is a must, its expensive, very restrictive (eg. can't put a decent battery in your car, etc) and i am starting to hear more and more of Porsche rejecting claims.
On the gearbox issue, you really need to drive them. If you really want an auto then i would try and stretch and buy a gen2 pdk as the tip in the gen1 is pretty awful imo.
Edited by Chris355 on Saturday 2nd April 19:27
Agree with Chris
I would and did buy a 2008 997.1 turbo manual without an OPC warranty, car had been serviced by a good indy - it needed a little cosmetic TLC which has now been applied, but it was a solid car as confirmed by 9E on a PPI.
Aside wear and tear it has been very reliable, extra costs have been me over-servicing it and upgrading interior bits and perfecting the paintwork
I would avoid tips and go for a gen 1 manual or gen 2 PDK - great cars with solid engines
I like the gruff motorsport nature of Mezger
I would and did buy a 2008 997.1 turbo manual without an OPC warranty, car had been serviced by a good indy - it needed a little cosmetic TLC which has now been applied, but it was a solid car as confirmed by 9E on a PPI.
Aside wear and tear it has been very reliable, extra costs have been me over-servicing it and upgrading interior bits and perfecting the paintwork
I would avoid tips and go for a gen 1 manual or gen 2 PDK - great cars with solid engines
I like the gruff motorsport nature of Mezger
Chris355 said:
9e 28 said:
Always buy the best you can within your budget. Doesn't matter whether gen 1 or gen 2. I personally wouldn't buy a turbo as used car without a 2 year Porsche warranty. Stick to main dealer or a specialist Indy who's willing to stick an OPC warranty on the car.
With the car you've mentioned who knows if its a good car or not. Ask the dealer if he's willing to take it to Porsche for an inspection and advise him you'll only buy it if Porsche will stand behind the car and put their own warranty on it (at your cost). If he runs for cover you know the cars probably not good enough for official warranty so walk away. OPC tend to come up with some nice cars as do RSJ, 911 Virgin, Williams Crawford, Cridfords, JZM etc. More difficult to find a good car nowadays as they're more in demand and quite a few cars have been messed with hence why I'd only go OPC. If a cars been remapped they'd reject it.
On that basis you wouldn't buy your own car!With the car you've mentioned who knows if its a good car or not. Ask the dealer if he's willing to take it to Porsche for an inspection and advise him you'll only buy it if Porsche will stand behind the car and put their own warranty on it (at your cost). If he runs for cover you know the cars probably not good enough for official warranty so walk away. OPC tend to come up with some nice cars as do RSJ, 911 Virgin, Williams Crawford, Cridfords, JZM etc. More difficult to find a good car nowadays as they're more in demand and quite a few cars have been messed with hence why I'd only go OPC. If a cars been remapped they'd reject it.
I agree that a potential purchase should be inspected by a specialist. I don't think the Porsche inspection is particularly good and I don't think getting a Porsche warranty is a must, its expensive, very restrictive (eg. can't put a decent battery in your car, etc) and i am starting to hear more and more of Porsche rejecting claims.
On the gearbox issue, you really need to drive them. If you really want an auto then i would try and stretch and buy a gen2 pdk as the tip in the gen1 is pretty awful imo.
Edited by Chris355 on Saturday 2nd April 19:27
:big laugh:
I obviously would but as a noob much better to stay with stock cars with OPC warranty if you intend to say do 15,000 miles a year. No brainer. Just looked on Porsche website and there are tonne of reasonably priced tips.woollyjoe said:
The Turbo depreciates very quickly (by POrsche standards) and many newer ones (997.2) will see many owners in the first few years.
You can access the power without testing your driving ability, so they can be ragged quite easily meaning mileage won't be an issue but what condition the engine is in. I wouldn't know how to check, but I would limit my risk by buying from one of the established sellers (already mentioned).
You could wait until the 997.2 drops into your budget (which it will) - it's a great car and PDK is very good. The turbo S was not much more when you consider some of the options you would want, so the standard turbo could be good buy soon and then hold it's value better than the 997.1. IMO.
The 997.2 turbo will not depreciate any time soon.You can access the power without testing your driving ability, so they can be ragged quite easily meaning mileage won't be an issue but what condition the engine is in. I wouldn't know how to check, but I would limit my risk by buying from one of the established sellers (already mentioned).
You could wait until the 997.2 drops into your budget (which it will) - it's a great car and PDK is very good. The turbo S was not much more when you consider some of the options you would want, so the standard turbo could be good buy soon and then hold it's value better than the 997.1. IMO.
They have appreciated in value during the past 12 months
Gearbox aside, the Gen2 is a considerably better car than the Gen1.
PCM3 is VASTLY improved, but as some have noted can be had an the last few Gen1 cars, this would be a deal breaker for me.
The ride is quite a bit more compliant on the newer car and better suited to UK roads, steering also is improved.
As has already been said, if you can stretch to an "S" it comes as standard with most goodies you would want anyway.
PCM3 is VASTLY improved, but as some have noted can be had an the last few Gen1 cars, this would be a deal breaker for me.
The ride is quite a bit more compliant on the newer car and better suited to UK roads, steering also is improved.
As has already been said, if you can stretch to an "S" it comes as standard with most goodies you would want anyway.
Edited by FeelingLucky on Sunday 3rd April 01:59
Bikeracer1098 said:
The 997.2 turbo will not depreciate any time soon.
They have appreciated in value during the past 12 months
As has my 997.1 turbo but guess Joe was talking about from new.They have appreciated in value during the past 12 months
Certainly wouldn't be choosing a turbo based on the satnav system - PCM3 will be out of date in a few years too
Adam B said:
Bikeracer1098 said:
The 997.2 turbo will not depreciate any time soon.
They have appreciated in value during the past 12 months
As has my 997.1 turbo but guess Joe was talking about from new.They have appreciated in value during the past 12 months
Certainly wouldn't be choosing a turbo based on the satnav system - PCM3 will be out of date in a few years too
Every other aspect of PCM3 is better than 2.
Bluetooth, USB, iPod to name three.
Usual obvious advice on here, Of course the gen 2 is better than the gen 1,Porsche wouldn't have built a lesser car as a replacement for the gen 1,Unfortunately a gen 2 will be considerably more money, a gen 1 bought wisely will give you many miles of enjoyment,This site is full of Tipronic haters and a lot of them probably havn't even driven one, I know loads of people who have opted for tips due to a budget and love there cars,I would go and talk to the indy's and not pay too much attention of what you read on here..
I was in exactly the same situation 4 weeks ago. . . .
Originally looking for a manual Gen 1 car, based more on perception rather than driving both to make up my own mind.
In my opinion the tip suits the Turbo power delivery really well i.e. Low rpm, high torque output. Having had a manual C2S previously, the tip gearbox would have made that car feel lethargic without large throttle openings.
However, the sport chrono option is a must and completely changes the character of the gearbox when spirited driving is the order of the day.
I bought mine privately with a pre purchase inspection from Dove House Motor company, I cannot recommend them highly enough. Their knowledge and the report depth was staggering.
After 4 weeks and a thousand miles I have no issue with recommending the tip, but the key here is 'your driving style' so test drive both.
Matt
Originally looking for a manual Gen 1 car, based more on perception rather than driving both to make up my own mind.
In my opinion the tip suits the Turbo power delivery really well i.e. Low rpm, high torque output. Having had a manual C2S previously, the tip gearbox would have made that car feel lethargic without large throttle openings.
However, the sport chrono option is a must and completely changes the character of the gearbox when spirited driving is the order of the day.
I bought mine privately with a pre purchase inspection from Dove House Motor company, I cannot recommend them highly enough. Their knowledge and the report depth was staggering.
After 4 weeks and a thousand miles I have no issue with recommending the tip, but the key here is 'your driving style' so test drive both.
Matt
FeelingLucky said:
Nor would I.
Every other aspect of PCM3 is better than 2.
Bluetooth, USB, iPod to name three.
And PCM4 will ever better still, once again I wouldn't be choosing a turbo based on the PCM systemEvery other aspect of PCM3 is better than 2.
Bluetooth, USB, iPod to name three.
Choose whether you prefer PDK, tip or manual, Mezger or DFI - all are great cars but budget will define somewhat
Thank you so much for all the information. I have read through every comment and taken on board. It's definitely best to test drive all, but I feel myself pulling towards the Gen2 PDK and I'm sure when I test drive this will be the case too.
I would like to try and get a Porsche warranty too.
Are there any other companies that can offer the same kind of warranty if I bought private?
From what I can see there are not that many cars that have the full dealer history with ongoing warranty. I'm looking around the 65-70k budget for a car
I would like to try and get a Porsche warranty too.
Are there any other companies that can offer the same kind of warranty if I bought private?
From what I can see there are not that many cars that have the full dealer history with ongoing warranty. I'm looking around the 65-70k budget for a car
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