Help - another 'what bike?'

[curtisl]

Can anyone offer some advice with my choices on my next N+1?

I'm after a new road bike. The brief is that I am looking for something a bit more focused with a racey geometry and the budget is £1k as a c2w purchase.

The current list is:

Felt F75 on 105
Cannondale CAAD 12 on 105 (this will involve part exchanging a MTB to make up the £300 difference)
Merida Ride 500 on Ultegra

The Merida is the odd one out geometry speaking but does offer the best group set, but at £1000, have the savings a result of a cheap frame? I cannot find any worthwhile reviews on it. All I know is that the LBS has strongly recommended it and Merida are no slouches when it comes to frame builds as they make most of the specialized frames and maybe Trek also.

Can anyone give me some clarity on the choices. I am swaying towards the Cannondale but the Felt has a similar geometry and is cheaper but not bike of the year like the caad12. The Merida is also very tempting but not quite the ideal but has a great groupset.. Help please!!

[anonymous-user]

Caad12 if it fits, You won't regret it.

[jamiebae]

CAAD.

I have a CAAD 10 and love it, the CAAD 12 105 just won Cycling Plus bike of the year so it has to be the one to go for really. It's also well worth upgrading, if you decide you want to switch to Ultegra/DA/Di2 or anything else in future.

[idiotgap]

I'm considering building up a Chinese open mold frame to about the same price from Deng-Fu or Hong-Fu.
Might be a fun option if you want to choose all the bits and the bobs.

[jamiebae]

idiotgap said:

I'm considering building up a Chinese open mold frame to about the same price from Deng-Fu or Hong-Fu.
Might be a fun option if you want to choose all the bits and the bobs.

Doesn't work on C2W though.

[idiotgap]

jamiebae said:

idiotgap said:

I'm considering building up a Chinese open mold frame to about the same price from Deng-Fu or Hong-Fu.
Might be a fun option if you want to choose all the bits and the bobs.

Doesn't work on C2W though.

True, doesn't help spread the cost, but the savings may not be compelling.

C2w is an option for me too, but every time I look at it I get put off by the smells of a rat. Maybe I'm looking at it all wrong but the restriction on who can supply you - no canyon etc., sometimes surcharges from those that can or refusal to deal on certain bikes. I heard (unconfirmed) that cyclescheme demand a 10% discount from the retailer. The other factor is that I probably want a poncier bike than can be had at full rrp of £1k from a main-dealer.

[curtisl]

Thanks everyone for your replies. They firmed up what I was thinking. The only issue is that today I heard that my company wants the amount paid up by December so I have now decided on getting a new 105 group set for my Boardman, tyres, shoes and some new sorts and jerseys and will get a new bike in January once I have the full year. Maybe the card 12 will be cheaper by then or the disc version will be within budget.

[jamiebae]

curtisl said:

Thanks everyone for your replies. They firmed up what I was thinking. The only issue is that today I heard that my company wants the amount paid up by December so I have now decided on getting a new 105 group set for my Boardman, tyres, shoes and some new sorts and jerseys and will get a new bike in January once I have the full year. Maybe the card 12 will be cheaper by then or the disc version will be within budget.

Can you do that though? I understood for the tax benetit to be valid you had to leave the shop with a rideable bike which you clearly won't do.

Also, a 105 group is so cheap online it makes no sense paying more just to pay it off monthly.

[lukefreeman]

Ribble?

[bakerstreet]

idiotgap said:

I'm considering building up a Chinese open mold frame to about the same price from Deng-Fu or Hong-Fu.
Might be a fun option if you want to choose all the bits and the bobs.

I've done the maths and you need to use one of the cheaper frames from Ebay to make it work, especially if you want decent £300 wheels and even then the saving isn't very much. If you go for something with stock speck wheels (£100-150), then you will save a bit more.

I based my build costs on on a mixture of SRAM Rival22 and Force 22. You could probably get it really cheap if you went 105, but I personally would never do that.

You'd be surprised by how much all the small bits add up to (Saddle, headset, cables, spacers, bars ect ect.

[idiotgap]

bakerstreet said:

idiotgap said:

I'm considering building up a Chinese open mold frame to about the same price from Deng-Fu or Hong-Fu.
Might be a fun option if you want to choose all the bits and the bobs.

I've done the maths and you need to use one of the cheaper frames from Ebay to make it work, especially if you want decent £300 wheels and even then the saving isn't very much. If you go for something with stock speck wheels (£100-150), then you will save a bit more.

I based my build costs on on a mixture of SRAM Rival22 and Force 22. You could probably get it really cheap if you went 105, but I personally would never do that.

You'd be surprised by how much all the small bits add up to (Saddle, headset, cables, spacers, bars ect ect.

Yeah, I was pondering 105 for my build, just doesn't seem to make sense to go any other way. I realised in the end that from a functional point of view 105 is virtually indistinguishable from more expensive options and that my desire for them stemmed mostly from the desire to influence what other people thought of the bike when they looked at it. I'd quite like a modded 105 with no visible branding!

My prototype build spreadsheet does have most of the detail items in, though I did surprise myself by forgetting tyres for a long time. Suddenly swinging the pendulum over a bit.

[bakerstreet]

idiotgap said:

Yeah, I was pondering 105 for my build, just doesn't seem to make sense to go any other way. I realised in the end that from a functional point of view 105 is virtually indistinguishable from more expensive options and that my desire for them stemmed mostly from the desire to influence what other people thought of the bike when they looked at it. I'd quite like a modded 105 with no visible branding!

My prototype build spreadsheet does have most of the detail items in, though I did surprise myself by forgetting tyres for a long time. Suddenly swinging the pendulum over a bit.

105 will certainly do the job, but have you ever ridden a bike with Ultegra brakes? Keep everything 105, apart from the brakes and spend the extra £40 on some Ultegra brakes and decent pads. Even the older 6700 (10sp) ones are a big improvement over the 105 5800.

The below will give you an idea of how much everything costs. I've included Ultegra wheels as they are a bargain at £210 from CRC.

[jamiebae]

bakerstreet said:

105 will certainly do the job, but have you ever ridden a bike with Ultegra brakes? Keep everything 105, apart from the brakes and spend the extra £40 on some Ultegra brakes and decent pads. Even the older 6700 (10sp) ones are a big improvement over the 105 5800.

I swapped from 105 5800 to Ultegra brakes with better pads and there is a difference but it isn't massive. I much prefer the shorter throw of Ultegra shifters, but again it's not really that different to 105 in terms of functionality.

[curtisl]

jamiebae said:

curtisl said:

Thanks everyone for your replies. They firmed up what I was thinking. The only issue is that today I heard that my company wants the amount paid up by December so I have now decided on getting a new 105 group set for my Boardman, tyres, shoes and some new sorts and jerseys and will get a new bike in January once I have the full year. Maybe the card 12 will be cheaper by then or the disc version will be within budget.

Can you do that though? I understood for the tax benetit to be valid you had to leave the shop with a rideable bike which you clearly won't do.

Also, a 105 group is so cheap online it makes no sense paying more just to pay it off monthly.

You can use it for equipment as well. Who said I was paying more? I am getting the groupset for £290 which will be subject to the usual tax and NI savings. It's too good to turn down.

[jamiebae]

curtisl said:

You can use it for equipment as well. Who said I was paying more? I am getting the groupset for £290 which will be subject to the usual tax and NI savings. It's too good to turn down.

Really? I thought you could use it for equipment but only in conjunction with a bike (upgrades for the bike you're buying). Maybe some shops will bend the rules but I was told if you can't ride out of the shop on it then it doesn't qualify for the tax saving in legal terms.

I'm astonished that somewhere will do a 105 group on C2W for £290 - the scheme operation will take 10% of the price so they're effectively selling it for £261 at which price they'll probably make a loss.

[curtisl]

jamiebae said:

Really? I thought you could use it for equipment but only in conjunction with a bike (upgrades for the bike you're buying). Maybe some shops will bend the rules but I was told if you can't ride out of the shop on it then it doesn't qualify for the tax saving in legal terms.

I'm astonished that somewhere will do a 105 group on C2W for £290 - the scheme operation will take 10% of the price so they're effectively selling it for £261 at which price they'll probably make a loss.

This is from the FAQ's section.

Can I choose equipment only?
Yes, employees are able to choose equipment only and there is no minimum spend.

I'd be amazed if a retailer was selling a groupset only 10% off of margin. In any case, they have another £200+ of other purchases so I am sure the books are balanced.

[jamiebae]

curtisl said:

jamiebae said:

Really? I thought you could use it for equipment but only in conjunction with a bike (upgrades for the bike you're buying). Maybe some shops will bend the rules but I was told if you can't ride out of the shop on it then it doesn't qualify for the tax saving in legal terms.

I'm astonished that somewhere will do a 105 group on C2W for £290 - the scheme operation will take 10% of the price so they're effectively selling it for £261 at which price they'll probably make a loss.

This is from the FAQ's section.

Can I choose equipment only?
Yes, employees are able to choose equipment only and there is no minimum spend.

I'd be amazed if a retailer was selling a groupset only 10% off of margin. In any case, they have another £200+ of other purchases so I am sure the books are balanced.

Fair enough, the rules must have changed since I bought my last C2W bike a few years ago.

[idiotgap]

jamiebae said:

curtisl said:

You can use it for equipment as well. Who said I was paying more? I am getting the groupset for £290 which will be subject to the usual tax and NI savings. It's too good to turn down.

Really? I thought you could use it for equipment but only in conjunction with a bike (upgrades for the bike you're buying). Maybe some shops will bend the rules but I was told if you can't ride out of the shop on it then it doesn't qualify for the tax saving in legal terms.

I'm astonished that somewhere will do a 105 group on C2W for £290 - the scheme operation will take 10% of the price so they're effectively selling it for £261 at which price they'll probably make a loss.

Do they always take 10% even if your firm administer it themselves? My assumption it was the outfits like cyclescheme who've set-up to take on the admin on behalf of the companies who have imposed the 10% thing. If you were able to administer it yourself you'd not be forced to skim.

[jamiebae]

idiotgap said:

Do they always take 10% even if your firm administer it themselves? My assumption it was the outfits like cyclescheme who've set-up to take on the admin on behalf of the companies who have imposed the 10% thing. If you were able to administer it yourself you'd not be forced to skim.

There are two parts, the administration and funding. If your company does both then there's no skim, but if there's a company doing the admin and tax stuff, dealing with final payments etc then they will take a cut for this and that's where the 10% comes from which is paid by the retailer but effectively paid by you which is why the online places won't take the vouchers.