Manual transmission no longer for the M5 /M6
Discussion
http://jalopnik.com/the-manual-transmission-bmw-m5...
Were aimed an US demand and nobody bought them . At the time there was outrage that there were none available....
Were aimed an US demand and nobody bought them . At the time there was outrage that there were none available....
I drove an M4 recently. Had the DCT box in. Frankly, the thing has so much torque in it now you could put in a four-speed slushmatic and no-one would really notice. It was spinning the wheels at 80 in the dry as it was. The manual is apparently pretty good but as I understand it they're becoming an increasingly hard sell. Ferrari stopped doing them because people stopped buying them. I'm amazed Porsche persist with it, they must get some sales out of it but I can't see many 911s on forecourts with a manual box these days.
Schermerhorn said:
Too big and heavy a car for a manual transmission in my opinion.
The last manual BMW I had was a 645ci, and when I ordered the car the dealer was a bit surprised.I disliked it a lot, had an on-off clutch that was unpleasant. I had an E39 M5 previously and loved the six speed, even though it was no lightweight.
In those days the cars were not really tuner versions of the base car, and had their own separate engines and so on. Now they are much less separate from their siblings.
RDMcG said:
Schermerhorn said:
Too big and heavy a car for a manual transmission in my opinion.
The last manual BMW I had was a 645ci, and when I ordered the car the dealer was a bit surprised.I disliked it a lot, had an on-off clutch that was unpleasant. I had an E39 M5 previously and loved the six speed, even though it was no lightweight.
In those days the cars were not really tuner versions of the base car, and had their own separate engines and so on. Now they are much less separate from their siblings.
Back in the day do you remember (and it still applies today) when 95% of Mercs were automatic? Sometimes a manufacturer hits a sweetspot in the market and sticks to it.
Sometimes when a light is changing from green to amber to red (STOP) very quickly and you want to gun it quickly before you get stuck for a few minutes it is handy to have a quick shifting automatic where the car just picks up speed instantly and crosses the light.
In manual cars there is that 0.5 to 1.0 second delay in engaging the clutch, getting the gear, getting the revs and the speed to get where you want. Modern autos don't suffer from that. It's instant and feels good to have that instantly power accessibility.
BTW: I'm not endorsing running the traffic lights but you get what I mean, you just need that quick power/accessibility immediately. The H pattern box is a relic and I have no personal love for it if I am totally honest.
RDMcG said:
In those days the cars were not really tuner versions of the base car, and had their own separate engines and so on. Now they are much less separate from their siblings.
Is that really the case though or just rose tinted specs?The F10 M5 doesn't have that much in common with its 5-series underpinnings - even if you dismiss the S63 as just a high performance derivative of the regular N63 it still has unique transmission, differential, steering, suspension and braking setups to the regular 5's.
The S62 engine in the E39 M5 was similarly derived from the regular N62 was it not? Was its transmission not also shared with the 540i?
Looking back at the more recent models, only the E60 M5 and E9x M3's appear to have been equipped with unique M engines unrelated to the mainstream stuff.
Edited by theboss on Thursday 7th April 15:07
Schermerhorn said:
Sometimes when a light is changing from green to amber to red (STOP) very quickly and you want to gun it quickly before you get stuck for a few minutes it is handy to have a quick shifting automatic where the car just picks up speed instantly and crosses the light.
In manual cars there is that 0.5 to 1.0 second delay in engaging the clutch, getting the gear, getting the revs and the speed to get where you want. Modern autos don't suffer from that. It's instant and feels good to have that instantly power accessibility.
Curiously this is one area where I hate automatics. Especially modern, or high performance turbo cars. I had a 645i not too long ago. I wanted a manual, but I could only find one, it wasn't a good spec and the owner told me "the manual's never felt right". What annoyed me with that car, and even more with modern turbo'd iterations, is that if you're pootling along and put your foot down a bit, the car wants to change gear. This can take several seconds. However, most of these cars have such generous torque at such low RPM that it really wasn't necessary. So you wind up trying to work out how much throttle is the right amount to make the car go forwards without changing gear. Very frustrating. Sure, you can drive them in manual mode but not all of them are any good at that.In manual cars there is that 0.5 to 1.0 second delay in engaging the clutch, getting the gear, getting the revs and the speed to get where you want. Modern autos don't suffer from that. It's instant and feels good to have that instantly power accessibility.
The worst auto I ever drove for this was a diesel Mitsubishi L200 warrior. Driving it in the alps, heavily loaded, going uphill if you put your foot down it'd change down a gear. So it'd rev more, but high in the rev range it had no torque, so just started to slow down and make more noise.
Shaoxter said:
No surprise really, the people shouting out for manuals aren't the ones who are buying new cars. Same with people who want an M3/M5 Touring.
Yep, people often bring up the subject M3 touring "BMW are missing a trick, Audi do one why don't they? I'd buy one tomorrow".....er no you wouldn't. jayemm89 said:
Schermerhorn said:
Sometimes when a light is changing from green to amber to red (STOP) very quickly and you want to gun it quickly before you get stuck for a few minutes it is handy to have a quick shifting automatic where the car just picks up speed instantly and crosses the light.
In manual cars there is that 0.5 to 1.0 second delay in engaging the clutch, getting the gear, getting the revs and the speed to get where you want. Modern autos don't suffer from that. It's instant and feels good to have that instantly power accessibility.
Curiously this is one area where I hate automatics. Especially modern, or high performance turbo cars. I had a 645i not too long ago. I wanted a manual, but I could only find one, it wasn't a good spec and the owner told me "the manual's never felt right". What annoyed me with that car, and even more with modern turbo'd iterations, is that if you're pootling along and put your foot down a bit, the car wants to change gear. This can take several seconds. However, most of these cars have such generous torque at such low RPM that it really wasn't necessary. So you wind up trying to work out how much throttle is the right amount to make the car go forwards without changing gear. Very frustrating. Sure, you can drive them in manual mode but not all of them are any good at that.In manual cars there is that 0.5 to 1.0 second delay in engaging the clutch, getting the gear, getting the revs and the speed to get where you want. Modern autos don't suffer from that. It's instant and feels good to have that instantly power accessibility.
The worst auto I ever drove for this was a diesel Mitsubishi L200 warrior. Driving it in the alps, heavily loaded, going uphill if you put your foot down it'd change down a gear. So it'd rev more, but high in the rev range it had no torque, so just started to slow down and make more noise.
All in my humble opinion of course.
Having had autos for the last three cars (330d, 530d, 535d) I still really miss a manual transmission. Particularly when moving off at rest uphill where the programming dictates too many revs for the circumstances. A well judged manual clutch just works many times better for these situations in my opinion (without any overloading of the transmission).
In relation to a couple of the comments made earlier, I have to admit to being a habitual used car buyer - usually a year old, so I guess I won't be influencing BMW or other manufacturers any time soon on whether there should be manual or estate versions available to new car buyers. I'd still like to think they may have some regard for the folks who'll be buying their 'nearly new' cars from their dealers one or two years down the line - that's presumably part of what drives residual values.
Reason for mentioning this is that I feel BMW really are missing a trick with not offering estate versions of M3 & M5 - there, the previous poster stereotyped me perfectly as I'd not buy one new!! What really fails me is why the M5 doesn't come standard with folding rear seats. And what stupifies me is why it isn't even an option for the M3. (You may have guessed from these comments that I would rather like an M3 but my need for rear folding seats means it isn't an option for me on the BMW used car forecourts).
Peter
In relation to a couple of the comments made earlier, I have to admit to being a habitual used car buyer - usually a year old, so I guess I won't be influencing BMW or other manufacturers any time soon on whether there should be manual or estate versions available to new car buyers. I'd still like to think they may have some regard for the folks who'll be buying their 'nearly new' cars from their dealers one or two years down the line - that's presumably part of what drives residual values.
Reason for mentioning this is that I feel BMW really are missing a trick with not offering estate versions of M3 & M5 - there, the previous poster stereotyped me perfectly as I'd not buy one new!! What really fails me is why the M5 doesn't come standard with folding rear seats. And what stupifies me is why it isn't even an option for the M3. (You may have guessed from these comments that I would rather like an M3 but my need for rear folding seats means it isn't an option for me on the BMW used car forecourts).
Peter
northpolar said:
Reason for mentioning this is that I feel BMW really are missing a trick with not offering estate versions of M3 & M5 - there, the previous poster stereotyped me perfectly as I'd not buy one new!! What really fails me is why the M5 doesn't come standard with folding rear seats. And what stupifies me is why it isn't even an option for the M3. (You may have guessed from these comments that I would rather like an M3 but my need for rear folding seats means it isn't an option for me on the BMW used car forecourts).
Peter
Nothing wrong in wanting one! Peter
Yes the F10 M5 not having folding seats as standard is stupefying I didn't realise until I'd got the car home (assumptions eh!) The M3 does have folding rear seats as standard though well the F80 does, my e92's had them but can't remember if that was an option or not.
Gassing Station | M Power | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff