Biochemistry degree? Where?
Discussion
Hi all,
my son, who's 17, thinks he'd like to go into drug research as a career (as in medicine, not weed!). It looks like Biochemistry or Biomedical Sciences would be a good path for a degree, with some Universities offering an option 4th year for an MSci or similar.
There are a bewildering range of institutions though, so I'm hoping some of you here may have some opinions on the best places for such a degree. It needs to be a campus Uni, preferably within a couple of hours of where we live in Herts (he has some medical needs and doesn't want to be too far away, but not on our doorstep).
Any thoughts? And thanks!
Mods please move if this is the wrong place.
my son, who's 17, thinks he'd like to go into drug research as a career (as in medicine, not weed!). It looks like Biochemistry or Biomedical Sciences would be a good path for a degree, with some Universities offering an option 4th year for an MSci or similar.
There are a bewildering range of institutions though, so I'm hoping some of you here may have some opinions on the best places for such a degree. It needs to be a campus Uni, preferably within a couple of hours of where we live in Herts (he has some medical needs and doesn't want to be too far away, but not on our doorstep).
Any thoughts? And thanks!
Mods please move if this is the wrong place.
Biochem grad from Swansea University here - Seems to match most of your criteria, so long as you can stand the long run down the M4 to visit. The campus life is brilliant, near the pubs, beaches and sea. Ranked very highly for research output etc.
Also a good match for postgraduate research (as they highly favour internal applications) which he will likely need to do to get into drug research. They have a good link with the hospital there.
Biomedical Science is largely blood based, and you'll almost certainly end up in an office or as a blood tester in a laboratory/hospital from what I've seen. Biochem is a lot more chemical/protein/interaction based, so a bit wider of a field. This has its downsides as you can be a bit 'jack of all trades'.
As a cautionary note - A lot of big pharma companies are shedding R&D lately in Europe. That said there's a wide range of science you can get into with this degree so certainly worthwhile.
Feel free to ask any more specific questions - I'm happy to answer from my experience.
Also a good match for postgraduate research (as they highly favour internal applications) which he will likely need to do to get into drug research. They have a good link with the hospital there.
Biomedical Science is largely blood based, and you'll almost certainly end up in an office or as a blood tester in a laboratory/hospital from what I've seen. Biochem is a lot more chemical/protein/interaction based, so a bit wider of a field. This has its downsides as you can be a bit 'jack of all trades'.
As a cautionary note - A lot of big pharma companies are shedding R&D lately in Europe. That said there's a wide range of science you can get into with this degree so certainly worthwhile.
Feel free to ask any more specific questions - I'm happy to answer from my experience.
If you want to do drug research in any meaningful way then you need a Phd these days.
A first degree just about gets you a lab job.
That's not a bad thing but you should factor it into your calculations.
[my experience is 10 years out of date, so feel free to correct me if this has changed]
And, as the poster above says, research is moving offshore.
A first degree just about gets you a lab job.
That's not a bad thing but you should factor it into your calculations.
[my experience is 10 years out of date, so feel free to correct me if this has changed]
And, as the poster above says, research is moving offshore.
We've just gone through the process of choosing somewhere for my daughter to do Biomedical Sciences. We were very impressed with Manchester but I'm not sure if it meets your requirements. The university is on a campus and the accommodation is on one too but the two are separated by a bus ride. Do you need it all on one site somewhere like Lancaster? If you want to drop me a PM I'm happy to give some more detailed information (such as offers that she got) on what we found but I'd rather not share too many of my 17 year old daughters secrets online.
nyt said:
If you want to do drug research in any meaningful way then you need a Phd these days.
A first degree just about gets you a lab job.
[my experience is 10 years out of date, so feel free to correct me if this has changed]
Basically yes - You will absolutely need a 2.1 or higher in these degrees to get anything out of it in the industry. A masters is generally a waste of time if you can go straight into a PhD [As many do], so I'd be wary of signing up to direct 4-year degrees if you can skip out the masters. Then above that a PhD is generally desired for most big pharma jobs. You might be able to get into a newer, smaller biotech or biosimilar company though and work your way up.A first degree just about gets you a lab job.
[my experience is 10 years out of date, so feel free to correct me if this has changed]
Nottingham Trent was where I went, and they have a great chemistry/biochemistry department with great facilities. Not the greatest Uni in the UK, but I would highly recommend them.
Doing a sandwich degree would allow your son to go into industry for a year, and in that part of the world there are a few options- Boots and AstraZeneca are very local.
As said above, a PhD would be required to enter the R&D roles. My suggestion would be the 3 year degree, with 1 year in industry (so 4 years to completion) and then assess motivation and options- contacts from industry may offer a good career, or the research project could lead to a PhD if interesting enough (funding is a challenge for these, so to transfer straight in it's often about right time-right place).
Doing a sandwich degree would allow your son to go into industry for a year, and in that part of the world there are a few options- Boots and AstraZeneca are very local.
As said above, a PhD would be required to enter the R&D roles. My suggestion would be the 3 year degree, with 1 year in industry (so 4 years to completion) and then assess motivation and options- contacts from industry may offer a good career, or the research project could lead to a PhD if interesting enough (funding is a challenge for these, so to transfer straight in it's often about right time-right place).
Jaska said:
Basically yes - You will absolutely need a 2.1 or higher in these degrees to get anything out of it in the industry. A masters is generally a waste of time if you can go straight into a PhD [As many do], so I'd be wary of signing up to direct 4-year degrees if you can skip out the masters. Then above that a PhD is generally desired for most big pharma jobs. You might be able to get into a newer, smaller biotech or biosimilar company though and work your way up.
Pretty much this, but if you actually want a decent career as a scientist within the pharma or biotech industry, you're looking at a PhD and then a postdoc with a good academic group. There are many different science degrees that would offer entry into pharma- chemistry, medicinal chemistry, biology, biochemistry, pharmacology, pharmacy, medicine, toxicology...
As others have said, the pharma/biotech industry in the UK is dying out, but there are still some big players- science hubs in Cambridge and Oxford, plus others just north of London.
A mate of mine has just done BioMedical Sciences, right through to PhD level at University of Sheffield. He speaks very highly of the people there and how great the content was. (He's an extremely smart lad who would challenge the best minds)
He's now got a plumb job in research in Oxford
He's now got a plumb job in research in Oxford
I never finished my degree. I did normal Chemistry and went to Sussex. At the time (16 years) ago it was very highly regarded and had two noble prize winners as lectures there. Harry Kroto was one of them, Wiki says he left a few years ago.
He used to have this band of arse licking Phd students following him around like groupies.
Might be worth a look, just about in the two hour limit from Herts.
He used to have this band of arse licking Phd students following him around like groupies.
Might be worth a look, just about in the two hour limit from Herts.
My brother followed me to University of Surrey (Guildford) to do a Biochemistry degree. I can't really comment on the degree itself, my brother dropped out after two years due to laziness and a claim that he'd decided it wasn't the career for him. He's now in IT.
I did Electronic Engineering, loved it and loved the University. Great campus. So in that respect I'd recommend Surrey.
I did Electronic Engineering, loved it and loved the University. Great campus. So in that respect I'd recommend Surrey.
My son is currently in his final year of Biomedical science at Lancaster, loves it, great facilities and lecturers, my son has Aspergers the support from Student Services and the University in general has been fantastic. He spent first year on Campus the moved in to town, 10 minutes on one of the many buses which go via the Uni, nice friendly town.
Edited by berlintaxi on Monday 11th April 14:01
As someone who worked in the field and has postdoc-level of education, I would not recommend drug discovery, unless he is highly committed. I jumped ship into patents nearly 10 years ago and have no regrets, though I have admiration for those who stick it out, which includes some of my friends.
The problem is that, apart from constant mergers/takeovers, Big Pharma is shedding R&D. To continue their pipeline, they use universities or "subcontractors" (where pay/funding is tragically low), or buy up smaller biotech firms, taking their hits and shutting them down. Before anyone says, this is the same everywhere - not just in the UK.
With "just" a degree, in some ways he would be better off - he would be a "lab monkey", but at least jobs at this level are easy to find. However, if he's serious about drug discovery, he will need to have postdoctorate experience and even then the job market is bleak, and for rewards that, quite frankly, are criminal. Simply put, the industry does not recognise the value of R&D - the companies are run by those who have no idea of the importance of research - they merely see a big expense to gain IP that they think they can get cheaper by takeovers or funding university projects.
I'm sorry to put a damper on things. I just want you and your son to be aware. I wish him all the best with whatever he chooses.
The problem is that, apart from constant mergers/takeovers, Big Pharma is shedding R&D. To continue their pipeline, they use universities or "subcontractors" (where pay/funding is tragically low), or buy up smaller biotech firms, taking their hits and shutting them down. Before anyone says, this is the same everywhere - not just in the UK.
With "just" a degree, in some ways he would be better off - he would be a "lab monkey", but at least jobs at this level are easy to find. However, if he's serious about drug discovery, he will need to have postdoctorate experience and even then the job market is bleak, and for rewards that, quite frankly, are criminal. Simply put, the industry does not recognise the value of R&D - the companies are run by those who have no idea of the importance of research - they merely see a big expense to gain IP that they think they can get cheaper by takeovers or funding university projects.
I'm sorry to put a damper on things. I just want you and your son to be aware. I wish him all the best with whatever he chooses.
I would back up what Mr Ghurkins says. I did kind of the same as him.
You will find that scientists are rather the factory workers of pharmaceutical R&D; salaries are in no way commensurate with a 3 year degree followed by a three year doctorate followed by n years of post doctoral research, and the job situation is fragile, because they can get science done cheaper in india.
You will find that scientists are rather the factory workers of pharmaceutical R&D; salaries are in no way commensurate with a 3 year degree followed by a three year doctorate followed by n years of post doctoral research, and the job situation is fragile, because they can get science done cheaper in india.
A fantastic campus university is the University of Nottingham. The University Park campus is a square mile, enclosed, beautiful parkland, but only a couple of miles out of town and served by bus and tram. Has many top schools, including Pharmacy that is number 6 in the world on the QS rankings (that includes pharmacology - a different subject). The university has relations with many pharma industries - GSK being the most prominent.
As said above, most companies in the pharma arena recruit at the PhD level.
As said above, most companies in the pharma arena recruit at the PhD level.
I did Biochem at Imperial, London, in the 80s. Not the most enjoyable 3 yrs of my life, at all. I hated the place. I regard the time I spent there as 3 years' time served. I went into food manufacturing after graduating and have stayed ever since. Drugs or fine chemicals manufacture would have given similar experiences, probably. Dunno about research. The thing is that there's an interesting range of careers to be had in and around manufacturing development, especially if you have an engineering bent as well as a scientific one.
Imperial in the 80's was only interested in postgrads, they didn't give a s**t about undergrads and I saw dozens of "cleverest-kid-in-the-sixth-form" candidates who were left to their own devices with no direction and came out with 2:2s and 3rds. Contemporaries of mine who went elsewhere to provincial redbricks armed with less talent came out with 2:1s and better every time. I have no children but I wouldn't let any of mine go to Imperial.
Imperial in the 80's was only interested in postgrads, they didn't give a s**t about undergrads and I saw dozens of "cleverest-kid-in-the-sixth-form" candidates who were left to their own devices with no direction and came out with 2:2s and 3rds. Contemporaries of mine who went elsewhere to provincial redbricks armed with less talent came out with 2:1s and better every time. I have no children but I wouldn't let any of mine go to Imperial.
My oldest completed a biomedical sciences degree at Hertfordshire last summer. He enjoyed the science (macrophages, cell proteins and wound fluid) but decided quite eatly on that he did not want to become a biomedical scientist. His course had a lab placement year option as it was an NHS-accredited degree but that career path was considered a bit dead-end.
He's now in retail on a management traineed scheme applying his brain to supply chain and stock optimisation management. The project skills and research analytics that he gained from the degree are transferable, the bio and chem obviously less so.
He's now in retail on a management traineed scheme applying his brain to supply chain and stock optimisation management. The project skills and research analytics that he gained from the degree are transferable, the bio and chem obviously less so.
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