Parents selling house - Are they being given the run-around?
Discussion
So my parents have accepted an offer on their house in a rural part of the country, and the buyer's team have come back to them with a couple of 'interesting' bits of feedback. Hopefully someone with more property law knowledge than I can provide some insight.
They built a conservatory on the back of the property about 10yrs ago, and they are now being told that they "breached a covenant" by not asking the permission of the original landowner. The tricky thing is that the house is ~40yrs old, they have owned it since new, and the original landowner is long dead. They are being asked to provide an "indemnity certificate", but I'm not certain why they need one.
Secondly, they are being asked to pay for an "indemnity certificate for the right to mine for minerals under the house".
Forgive any inaccuracies, as I am simply relaying the message direct from a couple of retirees (although they are still pretty sharp, they lack a bit of commercial nous).
Any help would be gratefully received.
They built a conservatory on the back of the property about 10yrs ago, and they are now being told that they "breached a covenant" by not asking the permission of the original landowner. The tricky thing is that the house is ~40yrs old, they have owned it since new, and the original landowner is long dead. They are being asked to provide an "indemnity certificate", but I'm not certain why they need one.
Secondly, they are being asked to pay for an "indemnity certificate for the right to mine for minerals under the house".
Forgive any inaccuracies, as I am simply relaying the message direct from a couple of retirees (although they are still pretty sharp, they lack a bit of commercial nous).
Any help would be gratefully received.
C70R said:
So my parents have accepted an offer on their house in a rural part of the country, and the buyer's team have come back to them with a couple of 'interesting' bits of feedback. Hopefully someone with more property law knowledge than I can provide some insight.
They built a conservatory on the back of the property about 10yrs ago, and they are now being told that they "breached a covenant" by not asking the permission of the original landowner. The tricky thing is that the house is ~40yrs old, they have owned it since new, and the original landowner is long dead. They are being asked to provide an "indemnity certificate", but I'm not certain why they need one.
Secondly, they are being asked to pay for an "indemnity certificate for the right to mine for minerals under the house".
Forgive any inaccuracies, as I am simply relaying the message direct from a couple of retirees (although they are still pretty sharp, they lack a bit of commercial nous).
Any help would be gratefully received.
You really need to spend a few quid and get the details from the Land Registry to find out if these are really potential issues or not.They built a conservatory on the back of the property about 10yrs ago, and they are now being told that they "breached a covenant" by not asking the permission of the original landowner. The tricky thing is that the house is ~40yrs old, they have owned it since new, and the original landowner is long dead. They are being asked to provide an "indemnity certificate", but I'm not certain why they need one.
Secondly, they are being asked to pay for an "indemnity certificate for the right to mine for minerals under the house".
Forgive any inaccuracies, as I am simply relaying the message direct from a couple of retirees (although they are still pretty sharp, they lack a bit of commercial nous).
Any help would be gratefully received.
It's entirely possible that they have breached a covenant on the land. The original landowner may be dead, but the right to enforce that covenant passed to whoever inherited his estate - they may not know about it, sure. But they may do. Will that right-owner come after the house owner, and enforce the covenant? <shrug> You have no way of knowing until and unless they do.
Has somebody retained the mineral rights under their land? Entirely possible.
The LR registered details will tell you both of these. The buyer's solicitor has done his job and dug into the paperwork, and thinks there may be an issue. What they're asking your parents for is to buy an insurance policy that'll cover the legal costs and/or devaluation if these potential issues develop into real ones.
OTOH, indemnity policies could easily be viewed as a nice little earner for the conveyancing profession, with very little actual benefit to anybody else.
Your parents can certainly refuse to pay out for the indemnities. The buyers may, of course, then decide to reduce their offer to cover the cost and/or risk, or simply walk away. Everything's up for negotiation until contracts are exchanged.
If they've had the house for 40yrs, and there's not been any mortgage-related transactions (paying off or taking out), then it might not be LR registered - in which case, it's the original deeds which'll be needed - but they should be handy, since the buyer's solicitor would have had a copy to find this out, and the property'll need to be registered as part of this sale. But it's probably on the LR.
IANAL but isn't this part of the reason you pay one when you move house? Both buying and selling. Your parents should ask him/her!
Secondly, very limited experience but often these indemnity certificates take the form of very cheap insurance - owing to the entirely obvious VERY low risk of getting sued by a dead person's estate etc...
When we moved I think we spent £150 or so on these which was fine in the context of all the other costs.
It was worth it just to keep the process smooth and on track!
Secondly, very limited experience but often these indemnity certificates take the form of very cheap insurance - owing to the entirely obvious VERY low risk of getting sued by a dead person's estate etc...
When we moved I think we spent £150 or so on these which was fine in the context of all the other costs.
It was worth it just to keep the process smooth and on track!
I expect its the mortgage co. requesting these to dot the I's and cross the T's - the important thing is what has your own solicitor advised?
The cost of the indemnity policy will show the likelihood of it being an issue (they are very cheap typically). Its far easier to just get them to progress the sale for the insignificant cost involved to save any hassle/delay.
The cost of the indemnity policy will show the likelihood of it being an issue (they are very cheap typically). Its far easier to just get them to progress the sale for the insignificant cost involved to save any hassle/delay.
Thanks all - some excellent and speedy feedback. It felt like a quick buck to me, but I didn't know to what sort of value they would be expected to cough up. If it's only a few hundred quid, I'm sure they will just crack on - they are speaking to their solicitor this afternoon, so I just wanted a bit of feedback ahead of that.
Thanks again.
Thanks again.
Not sure about this one but their solicitor should be able to advise.
When I bought my house 3 years ago, I got several indemnity policies including one going back to someone like 1650 in case the descendants of the then land owner came along claiming it was theirs as it could not be categorically proven the title had passed correctly, or at all.....this was for the full purchase price and cost something like £25.
When I bought my house 3 years ago, I got several indemnity policies including one going back to someone like 1650 in case the descendants of the then land owner came along claiming it was theirs as it could not be categorically proven the title had passed correctly, or at all.....this was for the full purchase price and cost something like £25.
TooMany2cvs said:
55palfers said:
What could potentially happen if there was a breach of a covenant and the other party decided to take the matter to the courts?
If the covenant said "No conservatory", and there was a conservatory, the court could well order the conservatory to be removed.Would the conservatory owner not have a case against their solicitor for not advising them of said covenant when they bought the house?
55palfers said:
TooMany2cvs said:
55palfers said:
What could potentially happen if there was a breach of a covenant and the other party decided to take the matter to the courts?
If the covenant said "No conservatory", and there was a conservatory, the court could well order the conservatory to be removed.Would the conservatory owner not have a case against their solicitor for not advising them of said covenant when they bought the house?
The solicitor may well have pointed out the covenants, which were digested, accepted, forgotten, then unwittingly breached later.
TooMany2cvs said:
55palfers said:
What could potentially happen if there was a breach of a covenant and the other party decided to take the matter to the courts?
If the covenant said "No conservatory", and there was a conservatory, the court could well order the conservatory to be removed.When I worked for Commercial Union years ago I used to write some indemnity covers. They were regarded as money for old rope and the premium was often just made up as there we no rates available. I'm guessing that the better the property area wise the higher the premium was. Never ever heard of a claim being made on even one.
Mr GrimNasty said:
The purchaser can cover the cost of the indemnity if they aren't happy, or pull out. That's what I always say, never failed yet - they usually don't bother.
We had to pay for one when buying our house about 6 years ago. The house has an extension that it does not seem to have planning permission for but is over 20 years old and similar to most of the other houses along the road. Risk is tiny...It was peanuts in the scheme of things, certainly less than £200.
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