S85 engine transplant experts?
Discussion
Not strictly an M question I guess, but it involves one of (if not their finest) engines ever.
Does any body have any recommendations for places to go to who specialise in engine transplants for BMWs, and particularly if they've any expertise with the S85 V10 in particular? The conversion in question isn't anything remotely interesting, in fact it may be just about the most boring conversion ever, but I really have no idea where to even start.
Essentially, I want to drop the S85 into my manual E63 645Ci. I know, I could buy a proper M6 and then convert that to manual, but I also have other plans for the car that would make buying an M6 pointless as I'd rip most of it out. I suspect it's more effort than would seem obvious, but it would be nice to be able to have a chat with someone who knew the engine and transplants into BMWs well.
Any help appreciated
Does any body have any recommendations for places to go to who specialise in engine transplants for BMWs, and particularly if they've any expertise with the S85 V10 in particular? The conversion in question isn't anything remotely interesting, in fact it may be just about the most boring conversion ever, but I really have no idea where to even start.
Essentially, I want to drop the S85 into my manual E63 645Ci. I know, I could buy a proper M6 and then convert that to manual, but I also have other plans for the car that would make buying an M6 pointless as I'd rip most of it out. I suspect it's more effort than would seem obvious, but it would be nice to be able to have a chat with someone who knew the engine and transplants into BMWs well.
Any help appreciated
There is a guy who has dropped one into a Z4 recently, biggest issue for him were the systems I think.
www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=55...
www.z4-forum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=55...
hi,
I've done it twice now. no need to go standalone, both times oem.
first swap, e30 m3...
second swap, e46 m3....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WR5KMC9dZ4
I've done it twice now. no need to go standalone, both times oem.
first swap, e30 m3...
second swap, e46 m3....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WR5KMC9dZ4
Edited by warsteiner///M3 on Friday 15th April 20:22
warsteiner///M3 said:
hi,
I've done it twice now. no need to go standalone, both times oem.
first swap, e30 m3...
second swap, e46 m3....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WR5KMC9dZ4
They're awesome - top work!I've done it twice now. no need to go standalone, both times oem.
first swap, e30 m3...
second swap, e46 m3....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WR5KMC9dZ4
Edited by warsteiner///M3 on Friday 15th April 20:22
That's bloody superb, looks OEM!
So out of interest, how difficult do you think the swap would be into my car? I'm guessing a US cluster from a manual M6 so the rev counter is correct, hopefully just a set of engine mounts in terms of mounting the engine, and then any electrics that need doing. Were there any issues that you came across that you really didn't expect?
So out of interest, how difficult do you think the swap would be into my car? I'm guessing a US cluster from a manual M6 so the rev counter is correct, hopefully just a set of engine mounts in terms of mounting the engine, and then any electrics that need doing. Were there any issues that you came across that you really didn't expect?
easy swap, or hard...?
I suppose it depends on how many other engine swaps you've done before...?
your going to need more than a pair of engine mounts though. you'll need a m3v8 manual gearbox, gearbox mounting, a prop, probably an m6 radiator pack with oil cooler, remote oil filter housing....the list goes on.
you could use your cluster, as the info is sent to the cluster via CAN, and those signals can be converted via a 'converter module' so that the rev counter would be accurate, but, your counter probably doesn't go high enough..?!
I suppose it depends on how many other engine swaps you've done before...?
your going to need more than a pair of engine mounts though. you'll need a m3v8 manual gearbox, gearbox mounting, a prop, probably an m6 radiator pack with oil cooler, remote oil filter housing....the list goes on.
you could use your cluster, as the info is sent to the cluster via CAN, and those signals can be converted via a 'converter module' so that the rev counter would be accurate, but, your counter probably doesn't go high enough..?!
warsteiner///M3 said:
easy swap, or hard...?
I suppose it depends on how many other engine swaps you've done before...?
your going to need more than a pair of engine mounts though. you'll need a m3v8 manual gearbox, gearbox mounting, a prop, probably an m6 radiator pack with oil cooler, remote oil filter housing....the list goes on.
you could use your cluster, as the info is sent to the cluster via CAN, and those signals can be converted via a 'converter module' so that the rev counter would be accurate, but, your counter probably doesn't go high enough..?!
Never done a swap in my life, I'd be getting someone else to do it for me. My spannering skills aren't nearly good enough for something like this! I have no shame in admitting that I've no real idea on the finer details of this swap at all.I suppose it depends on how many other engine swaps you've done before...?
your going to need more than a pair of engine mounts though. you'll need a m3v8 manual gearbox, gearbox mounting, a prop, probably an m6 radiator pack with oil cooler, remote oil filter housing....the list goes on.
you could use your cluster, as the info is sent to the cluster via CAN, and those signals can be converted via a 'converter module' so that the rev counter would be accurate, but, your counter probably doesn't go high enough..?!
Am I not right in thinking that the manual 'box from the N62 (GS6-53BZ) will bolt straight onto the S85? At least, that was my understanding that the US M5/6 used the same gearbox. If it does, then I'm hoping that the 'box will stay in situ and the propshaft will be reused from my current setup. Radiator & oil coolers are a good shout, but not insurmountable and if I can't use the M6 items then I assume there must be a generic option out there.
You're right about the rev counter, mine only goes to 7000 rpm so not even close which is a shame but not really surprising.
Ekona said:
Never done a swap in my life, I'd be getting someone else to do it for me. My spannering skills aren't nearly good enough for something like this! I have no shame in admitting that I've no real idea on the finer details of this swap at all.
IMHO - if you get someone else to do the work be careful that you're not writing them an open cheque. If they've never done such a swap before you'll be paying for their on-the-job training and learning. I suspect the mechanical side isn't hugely difficult for a shop used to doing conversions and that has access to the fabrication tools and materials required. But the electronics are quite complex and require a fairly unique skill set.Very, very easy and straightforward swap into an E63.
Absolutely go with the OEM mss675 DME. I have worked with many of them and can get it synced to the existing CAS module in the car with no problem.
Most of the challenges you would face in a transplant to a different chassis will be overcome just by your target being an E63. The car side of the DME wire harness will likely plug straight into the mss65. The CAN bus messaging is all identical from M to non-M vehicles. Go with SMG to complete as OEM or pick up the 6MT from an e9x M3. I have two projects in the works right now, one is a SMG to 6MT conversion of my own 2006 M5 (they didn't offer 6MT for us in the US until 2007 MY) and an E61 535xi touring to E61 M5 conversion since we never got that here at all.
Hit me up with any questions, I'm US based so probably not much use for parts, but have salvage of about 20 S85 powered cars and extremely familiar with all E6x.
Absolutely go with the OEM mss675 DME. I have worked with many of them and can get it synced to the existing CAS module in the car with no problem.
Most of the challenges you would face in a transplant to a different chassis will be overcome just by your target being an E63. The car side of the DME wire harness will likely plug straight into the mss65. The CAN bus messaging is all identical from M to non-M vehicles. Go with SMG to complete as OEM or pick up the 6MT from an e9x M3. I have two projects in the works right now, one is a SMG to 6MT conversion of my own 2006 M5 (they didn't offer 6MT for us in the US until 2007 MY) and an E61 535xi touring to E61 M5 conversion since we never got that here at all.
Hit me up with any questions, I'm US based so probably not much use for parts, but have salvage of about 20 S85 powered cars and extremely familiar with all E6x.
warsteiner///M3 said:
yes, your right, its the same gearbox, but the one off the n62 wont bolt onto the back of the s85...different bellhousing pattern, you need one off the s85 or s65, obviously the m3v8 s65 is much easier to get hold of.
is this something you do as a business or just a hobby?The only difference between the M3 and M5 6MT in the US is the oil cooler on the M3. I know most here who have used an M3 trans had a block-off plate machined for the oil pump and used it without problem. I contemplated trying to make it work and retain it for the M5, but haven't gotten deep into it yet.
There are different DME flash versions (OEM) for the mss65 from the SMG to 6MT cars, so something else to keep in mind.
One of the key points to make your life easier doing in this in an E63 is to determine what the write "FA" (also known as VO or Vehicle Order) is. This is a string of 4 digit, comma-separated, alphanumeric values that determine all the options on the car. On the E6x vehicles the FA is stored in the CAS modules and Light Module (LM or LM2). Establishing the correct FA will make all follow-on programming and coding much more straightforward.
There are different DME flash versions (OEM) for the mss65 from the SMG to 6MT cars, so something else to keep in mind.
One of the key points to make your life easier doing in this in an E63 is to determine what the write "FA" (also known as VO or Vehicle Order) is. This is a string of 4 digit, comma-separated, alphanumeric values that determine all the options on the car. On the E6x vehicles the FA is stored in the CAS modules and Light Module (LM or LM2). Establishing the correct FA will make all follow-on programming and coding much more straightforward.
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