Non Serpentine 500's
Discussion
I do recall when the first 500s rolled out there was alot of talk regarding crankshaft problems. However, this would obviously have been fixed long time since with appropriate mod's.
Altho I have not driven an early 500 I can vouch for the 4.3 which is generally very nice Ta. Why not go for one of the pre-cats?
Altho I have not driven an early 500 I can vouch for the 4.3 which is generally very nice Ta. Why not go for one of the pre-cats?
I'm not sure the 4.3 is inherently better - but the 4.3 has no cats, the 500 does. So the 500 is 'robbed' of a small amount of horse power. Couple that with the louder, crisper noise of a standard 4.3, the fact that it's 95% as powerful and 99% as usuable; a beautiful blend of power/torque/tractability and revability, and that's where the attraction comes from. Purely from observations on here, it seems that the 500s are more susceptible to overheating - although of course many more were made.
With the serpentine engine came the T5 gearbox*. Along with the improvements of the serpentine engine, these are generally viewed as more desirable than pre-serps.
Hence, some folk will regard the pre-serp 500 as not first choice. But TBH if a 500 is your bag I shouldn't think there's much in it. So not a no-no, no.
*more or less
With the serpentine engine came the T5 gearbox*. Along with the improvements of the serpentine engine, these are generally viewed as more desirable than pre-serps.
Hence, some folk will regard the pre-serp 500 as not first choice. But TBH if a 500 is your bag I shouldn't think there's much in it. So not a no-no, no.
*more or less
Could be that the early 4.3 engines were just exceedingly well made & used some high quality internal components. Based on an off the cuff comment from Dom, but you get the gist.. Doesn't mean the 500 is bad, just some very nice bits were used in the 4.3 (like Cosworth pistons) as I understood him.
Personally I like the uncomplicated front of end of the pre-serp, currently planning a GEMS front-end for mine - but will retain pre-serp pulleys/belt if at all possible!
Dave
Personally I like the uncomplicated front of end of the pre-serp, currently planning a GEMS front-end for mine - but will retain pre-serp pulleys/belt if at all possible!
Dave
I love the idea of a 4.3.... but I just can't seem to find one with circa 40k on the clock in a decent colour and condition.
Hense my question about the early 500's.
I have seen a lovely looking 4.0l but not sure if I could live with it knowing there is more grunt to be had.
It has to be over 10yrs old for classic insurance, other wise they want approx £2 - 2.5K dependant on model.
Hense my question about the early 500's.
I have seen a lovely looking 4.0l but not sure if I could live with it knowing there is more grunt to be had.
It has to be over 10yrs old for classic insurance, other wise they want approx £2 - 2.5K dependant on model.
dont worry about it.theres little to choose between any variation.we all like different versions for different reasons.many think the pre-serp 500 is the best of all,and it can be found with the t5 box as some left the factory like this before the serp was introduced.basically all rover v8 cars are very reliable and its more important to find a high perfomance car like this thats been looked after properly rather than worry about some different variations being more reliable than others.
>> Edited by mongoose on Monday 28th February 17:43
>> Edited by mongoose on Monday 28th February 17:43
hoover33 said:
I love the idea of a 4.3.... but I just can't seem to find one with circa 40k on the clock in a decent colour and condition.
Hense my question about the early 500's.
Yep. Decent ones are rarer than rocking horse s*#t and you'll be making it nigh on impossible to find one if you are only looking for one particular colour. I was after a 4.3 but couldnt find a nice one for a whole year. I opted for a 400 over a 500 in the end as it was that gorgeous pre-cat rumble that I was really after.
>> Edited by jamiet on Tuesday 1st March 14:36
Well my ideal colour is yellow 
but I do like the Plumb/Mica Red/Ruby colours, and I am very taken by Silk Violet.
Its the engine then is the prob. I am nor sure what I want. ... cost wise it 4, 4.3, or early 500 (non serp)
Car has to be over 10yrs old or Insurance becomes a
If had 4l i think I would have a niggle for more.... may be upgrade at a latter date.
>> Edited by Hoover33 on Wednesday 2nd March 12:38
but I do like the Plumb/Mica Red/Ruby colours, and I am very taken by Silk Violet. Its the engine then is the prob. I am nor sure what I want. ... cost wise it 4, 4.3, or early 500 (non serp)
Car has to be over 10yrs old or Insurance becomes a
If had 4l i think I would have a niggle for more.... may be upgrade at a latter date.
>> Edited by Hoover33 on Wednesday 2nd March 12:38
No I have not seen any pre cat Griffs in yellow... a few chimps though (yuk at styling)
Is Monza reda soild red or metalic.... looked through all adverts Griff and chimp and can not see that colour.
Edited
Answered my own question... its a solid colour....Adrian Blythe have one sold.... Not sure if it makes the car... guess has to be seen in flesh.
I was like that when I bought my S2....Once seen fell in love with, now its time to sell the little baby to make way for something thats been taking steriods
>> Edited by Hoover33 on Wednesday 2nd March 19:39
Is Monza reda soild red or metalic.... looked through all adverts Griff and chimp and can not see that colour.
Edited
Answered my own question... its a solid colour....Adrian Blythe have one sold.... Not sure if it makes the car... guess has to be seen in flesh.
I was like that when I bought my S2....Once seen fell in love with, now its time to sell the little baby to make way for something thats been taking steriods
>> Edited by Hoover33 on Wednesday 2nd March 19:39
Monza red, Rosso red, Italian red, Racing red, Rosso corsa, Italian racing red etc are all variations on a theme, basically Ferrari red but TVR dont really want to name their colours after another manufacturer.
Colour is a very personal thing, hence all TVR's are different paint/interior colour combinations like a bespoke suit compared to an M&S one.
Personally I think Red is an excellent and safe colour on a TVR.The silk violet/mulbury car at Riverside is a stunning colour combination but not to many peoples taste. From the late 90's there has been a trend with TVR owners to try to create very radical and personal colour combinations which although the think are tasteful prove to have limited appeal in the market when they come to sell. Flipflop Tangerine with green leather may appeal to some but not many: Gorners "Aston Villa" Cerbera is another which springs to mind and that proved impossible to sell without expensive alteration.
I have had Yellow cars (which I love on certain models but doesn't suit all TVR's)which have been very difficult to sell until the buyer who has to have a yellow car comes along and they wouldn't have anything else.
If you become too narrow minded about colour, mileage, etc you may be looking for a long time and could ultimately buy the wrong car. Have preferences but keep an open mind and buy on condition within your budget. Remember you are buying an OLD car so expect it to show some signs of use in keeping with its age and mileage.Dont be a slave to mileage, 10000 miles round London is not the same as 10000 miles around Scotland, remember lots of short journeys from cold may mean low mileage but can mean high wear.
I will try to find time to take some digital photos and email them to you but as you rightly say these things need to be seen in the flesh
Colour is a very personal thing, hence all TVR's are different paint/interior colour combinations like a bespoke suit compared to an M&S one.
Personally I think Red is an excellent and safe colour on a TVR.The silk violet/mulbury car at Riverside is a stunning colour combination but not to many peoples taste. From the late 90's there has been a trend with TVR owners to try to create very radical and personal colour combinations which although the think are tasteful prove to have limited appeal in the market when they come to sell. Flipflop Tangerine with green leather may appeal to some but not many: Gorners "Aston Villa" Cerbera is another which springs to mind and that proved impossible to sell without expensive alteration.
I have had Yellow cars (which I love on certain models but doesn't suit all TVR's)which have been very difficult to sell until the buyer who has to have a yellow car comes along and they wouldn't have anything else.
If you become too narrow minded about colour, mileage, etc you may be looking for a long time and could ultimately buy the wrong car. Have preferences but keep an open mind and buy on condition within your budget. Remember you are buying an OLD car so expect it to show some signs of use in keeping with its age and mileage.Dont be a slave to mileage, 10000 miles round London is not the same as 10000 miles around Scotland, remember lots of short journeys from cold may mean low mileage but can mean high wear.
I will try to find time to take some digital photos and email them to you but as you rightly say these things need to be seen in the flesh
Hoover - Not sure if it is of any help in your decision making but i had a pre-serp for a year and now have a serp and there is little to choose between them in performance.
I actually preferred the smoother rover gearbox to the T5 and i think the pre-serps were slighter higher bhp, it certainly feels like it.
Both driven 3-4 times a week on long and short journeys and behaved themselves very well.
My only comment would be to inspect the chassis VERY closely for gut rot, especially the top rail of the ladder frame on them.
I actually preferred the smoother rover gearbox to the T5 and i think the pre-serps were slighter higher bhp, it certainly feels like it.
Both driven 3-4 times a week on long and short journeys and behaved themselves very well.
My only comment would be to inspect the chassis VERY closely for gut rot, especially the top rail of the ladder frame on them.
I have a Rosso red pre-serp 500 with an SD1 gearbox which I've had it for 18 months and am still madly in love with it.
I'm afraid there's some duff info above (4.3 = 99% power of 5.0)
The facts as I understand them are; 4.0 = 240BHP; 4.0 "ported"=250BHP; 4.3 = 280BHP; 5.0 pre-serp and early post serp = 340BHP; 5.0 late serp = 320BHP. I don't have the torque figured to hand, but I recollect that they are commensurate with the BHP figures. I have driven 4.0, 4.3 and of course 5.0, and there's absolutely no doubt about the different levels of acceleration.
The SD1 box is fine - a mate who has recently traded up for a T5 model said he preferred the SD1. It has a reputation for being more fragile than the T5, but I can't say how well founded that reputation is.
As someone already said, condition (especially chassis) is more important than engine size, cos there all pretty quick. But given two cars in similar condition, I'd always go for the bigger engine, but the noise of the pre-cats is slightly better.....
Steve
I'm afraid there's some duff info above (4.3 = 99% power of 5.0)
The facts as I understand them are; 4.0 = 240BHP; 4.0 "ported"=250BHP; 4.3 = 280BHP; 5.0 pre-serp and early post serp = 340BHP; 5.0 late serp = 320BHP. I don't have the torque figured to hand, but I recollect that they are commensurate with the BHP figures. I have driven 4.0, 4.3 and of course 5.0, and there's absolutely no doubt about the different levels of acceleration.
The SD1 box is fine - a mate who has recently traded up for a T5 model said he preferred the SD1. It has a reputation for being more fragile than the T5, but I can't say how well founded that reputation is.
As someone already said, condition (especially chassis) is more important than engine size, cos there all pretty quick. But given two cars in similar condition, I'd always go for the bigger engine, but the noise of the pre-cats is slightly better.....
Steve
red griff 500 said:
The facts as I understand them are; 4.0 = 240BHP; 4.0 "ported"=250BHP; 4.3 = 280BHP; 5.0 pre-serp and early post serp = 340BHP; 5.0 late serp = 320BHP. I don't have the torque figured to hand, but I recollect that they are commensurate with the BHP figures.
Those are the official figures, however you have to take them with a large spoonfull of salt.
As Peter quite rightly says these are TVR bhp which do not always correlate to everyone elses. The same 4.0 litre engine fitted to the 400SE wedge produced 275bhp.
I have driven many Griffs of all denominations and the difference between a 4.3 and a 5.0 in my experience is the manner each delivers however many bhp they deliver.The pre cat 4.3 cars be it big or small valve seem to deliver the power with more "urgency" and rev more freely. This could be down to the cam/piston differences or the strangling effect of the cats but driven back to back there is little or no discernable difference in performance and they are both quick enough.You pays your money......
I have driven many Griffs of all denominations and the difference between a 4.3 and a 5.0 in my experience is the manner each delivers however many bhp they deliver.The pre cat 4.3 cars be it big or small valve seem to deliver the power with more "urgency" and rev more freely. This could be down to the cam/piston differences or the strangling effect of the cats but driven back to back there is little or no discernable difference in performance and they are both quick enough.You pays your money......
GreenV8S said:
The facts as I understand them are; 4.0 = 240BHP; 4.0 "ported"=250BHP; 4.3 = 280BHP; 5.0 pre-serp and early post serp = 340BHP; 5.0 late serp = 320BHP. I don't have the torque figured to hand, but I recollect that they are commensurate with the BHP figures.
Those are the official figures, however you have to take them with a large spoonfull of salt.
And conveniently skipped the BV, which is the 4.3 which people compare with the 500. IMHO close but the different characteristics are aptly described by Steve above.
Dave
Gassing Station | Griffith | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff