Running shoes vs insoles

[325Ti]

Looking for some advice about running shoes and orthopedic insoles

I have collapsed arches on my feet and so have to wear the hard plastic orthopedic insoles

I started running last year and managed a half marathon however I injured my knee and wasn't able to run for months

I'm trying to start training again and have been warned that the specialist running shop I bought my trainers from sold me the wrong type. They have extra support for my style of running but apparently combining this with the insoles could have been the cause for my injury

So do I buy trainers with extra support and stop wearing the insoles or buy natural trainers and keep the insoles? Ideal plan is another half marathon this year

[wemorgan]

Lots of variables.
I paid to see a sports physio when I was injured from running. This was money very well spent.
IMHO with long distance running you also need to add strength and conditioning to your training.

[944fan]

I have flat feet and I have custom made orthotics. Not casted (which are for people with collapsed arches), cost about £90.

Custom insoles are always going to be miles better than support trainers, which are generic for people who just over-pronate a bit. This is probably why the shop sold you them because flat footed people will over-pronate usually. I wore mine to begin with using support shoes and they gave me massive blisters on the arches.

I was told by my podiatrist to use neutral shoes with the orthotics. I use Mizuno Wave Sayonara 2 if that helps at all.

I have just done my first half marathon this morning. My left arch hurts a bit from pounding the support but no injury.

[lemmingjames]

I have flat feet but dont have any special insoles but i do run in 'minimalist' trainers with 0-4mm drop. Currently liking the Brooks Pure Flows and have some Topo Athletics in reserve.

I do have custom soles in my ski boots but then everyone tends to no matter what the arch

[944fan]

I have heard a few people with flat feet using minimalist shoes. Lots of anecdotal evidence from people that it works well.

Funny thing is, mention to a podiatrist about flat feet and minimalist running and they go ape st.

[Cybertronian]

944fan said:

I have heard a few people with flat feet using minimalist shoes. Lots of anecdotal evidence from people that it works well.

I've got low arches, particularly in my right foot, and run in neutral shoes with no more than 10mm heel drop, and go as low as 4mm heel drop in my race shoes. I will hasten to add that I spent the best part of 9 months to re-learn how to run in more minimalist shoes - I now run on my toes for almost everything apart from a ploddy jog.

I too have suffered from physios and podiatrists losing it when I show them my shoes with all of them saying I need more structure etc. They fail to realise that we're all different and what works for one group of people won't necessarily work for another group. All will have their own biases based on their own rates of success and failure, so definitely worth seeking another opinion if the proposed solution is clearly not working.

[T6 vanman]

Hi OP
If possible go to another proper running shop and get measured again,
Try to run as naturally as possible on the treadmill and ask questions when they show you the video of the differences between shoes as you run,
I was advised in one shop to have not only a support shoe (Brooks adrenalin GTS) but with a moulded insole (moulded in store from my feet in the shoes) ... Yes expensive and actually I noticed no difference than just the GTS on their own.
Enjoy your running

[lemmingjames]

944fan said:

I have heard a few people with flat feet using minimalist shoes. Lots of anecdotal evidence from people that it works well.

Funny thing is, mention to a podiatrist about flat feet and minimalist running and they go ape st.

Id have to do the wet foot test but think its improved my arch (think ive read evidence that supports this theory), admittedly im not really a distance sprinter (maybe 3 miles max).

[dave_s13]

Flat feet seem to be the preference of evolution. Only in developed western, caucasian civilisations are higher arch feet considered functionally and cosmetically normal.

There are millions of sub saharan groups running round with feet flat as pancakes with no bother at all. Many black high level athletes have flat feet as do lots of Chinese folk (I hardly see any Chinese folk).

There is also no such thing as "over pronation" in fact the word is not used correctly at all as for your foot to be in a pronated position it would have to be upside down.

It's a massive can of worms. If you can find a Podiatrist or physio with a sound understanding in the area of running mechanics then you're doing well. It's a very subjective and specialist field really.

It does make sense to put any insole in a neutral shoe though as it will have been prescribed from a neutral position. ALso, the old adage of getting fit to run not run to get fit is very true. If you have poor core strength and weak intrinsic foot muscles then you are more likely to have problems. One of the most often prescribed things we give are intrinsic foot muscle exercises (Youtube it). Also exercises to add strength into your conditioning routine is helpful. 5 x 5 stronglift programme is a good adjunct and add in some heavy glute exercises too (weighted bridges etc...that sort of malarky).

Edited by dave_s13 on Friday 13th May 08:41

[speedymotor]

"There is also no such thing as "over pronation" in fact the word is not used correctly at all as for your foot to be in a pronated position it would have to be upside down."

Just read this.. I thought over pronation was causing my plantar fasciitis.. I tried going barefoot but that didnt seem to help. Im as confused as ever now.

[dave_s13]

It's just semantics really. "Hyperpronation" might be a better term. Or excessive ankle joint complex pronation.

Either way it won't be the only reason for foot pain. Hence why seeing someone with half an idea isn't a bad idea.

[alfa phil]

ive ran with orthotics in my running shoes for years ,simple buy the best neutral shoe you can afford take out inner sole and fit your orthotics ,i have had ASICS gel nimbus for a long time,great running shoe