BiB: legislatn catches lawabiding
Discussion
Sorry for the truncated title, all Firefox would allow.
Following from Saturdays's Telegraph motoring supplement.
Comments?
>>> Edited by nicecupoftea on Monday 28th February 11:18
Following from Saturdays's Telegraph motoring supplement.
Telegraph said:
Neighbourhood watch
A simple walk around any supermarket car park will show many cars without legal essentials such as tax. On seeing a number of these one day, I talked to a police officer standing in the shop doorway. He didn't show the slightest interest. I then asked for his number and the name of his superior. He asked why and I explained that he was not performing his duty because he was not prepared to investigate the statutory offences that I had reported. The response was immediate and he booked the lot. Why should I pay my VED, insurance, MoT and so on while others flout the law so brazenly? In the event of an accident, the ramifications for the innocent party could be serious. The guilty party usually walks away laughing because they save more than the fine simply by not paying insurance. P.N., via e-mail
The chances of getting caught for running an unregistered, uninsured and untaxed car are far slimmer than getting done by a speed camera, which depends on a driver being the rehistered owner. Motoring legislation only catches and punishes people who are basically law-abiding. This information was supplied to me by a serving police officer.
Comments?
>>> Edited by nicecupoftea on Monday 28th February 11:18
Streetcop said:
He should have stuck to his guns and explained why he wasn't going to do anything....
And...why wasn't he going to do anything?
Because the article is correct and there is no point in going after illegal cars, when there are plenty of legal ones around that will actually pay fines?
nicecupoftea said:
Sorry for the truncated title, all Firefox would allow.
Following from Saturdays's Telegraph motoring supplement.
Telegraph said:
Neighbourhood watch
A simple walk around any supermarket car park will show many cars without legal essentials such as tax. On seeing a number of these one day, I talked to a police officer standing in the shop doorway. He didn't show the slightest interest. I then asked for his number and the name of his superior. he asked why and I explained that he was not performing his duty because he was not prepared to investigate the statutory offences that I had reported. The response was immediate and he booked the lot. Why should I pay my VED, insurance, MoT and so on while others flout the law so brazenly? In the event of an accident, the ramifications for the innocent party could be serious. The guilty party usually walks away laughing because they save more than the fine simply by not paying insurance. P.N.m via e-mail
The chances of getting caught for running an unregistered, uninsured and untaxed car are far slimmer than getting done by a speed camera, which depends on a driver being the rehistered owner. Motoring legislation only catches and punishes people who are basically law-abiding. This information was supplied to me by a serving police officer.
Comments?
comments? well, sadly, this is all too true. i am surprised the cop was so indifferent to your suggestion; that seems really bad - apathy in a kid working at mcdonalds is one thing but i would not like to think there are many cops as apathetic as the one you met. appalling.
re: road tax, being law abiding, etc - it's a bit like the inland revenue dilemma - i know people who work mainly cash in hand and pay bugger all tax; they're far richer in terms of ready cash in wallet than i ever am; as soon as you flag yourself with the inland revenue, etc, your up for scrutiny every minute. we end up subsidising the others. i'd never ever snitch on someone (for this - but i would for car tax/insurance) but it does frustrate me.
don't even start me on the negative equity crash many years ago - i lost a packet but a few people i knew just handed in their keys and walked away from debt. today they all have mortgages, no problem. it took me years to claw back my equity.
doh. who's the dumb one? moi!
mind you, that's up to them and they're not directly risking anyone's life; however, drivers of uninsured cars (if the car is untaxed i doubt its insured) need stringing up, frankly. my friend is still not walking after being knocked off his 'bike 18mnths ago and the pillock in the car was - yes - uninsured. so, he's also broke (can't work because of injuries) and has little chance of any meaningful compensation when the case is eventually resolved.
why has no government gone for the scrapped road tax option, with a levvy for a minimum 3rd party insurance built-in? as i recall this is how the system work/ed in australia many years ago. i can't see what the drawbacks would be?
would be interesting to hear from the bib here re: their somewhat apathetic colleague!
ttfn
hedders said:
Streetcop said:
He should have stuck to his guns and explained why he wasn't going to do anything....
And...why wasn't he going to do anything?
Because the article is correct and there is no point in going after illegal cars, when there are plenty of legal ones around that will actually pay fines?
Codswollop!...
Could it be that cars parked in supermarket car parks aren't subject to road tax laws..
>> Edited by Streetcop on Monday 28th February 12:04
Rod Barrett said:
Codswollop!...
Could it be that cars parked in supermarket car parks aren't subject to road tax laws..
So these cars never go anywhere!!!
Of course they do...but that's not the point of the thread....it's the complaint that the BiB wasn't 'ticketing' the cars...
Answer; he can't.
Laws can only be enforced where they are permitted...
I know shitheads who will burgle tonight, but I can't arrest them before they've burgled....
In an ideal world...anyone 'shifty looking' I would put in prison..but I can't...
Have a read up on law and procedure instead of relying on could've/should've theories...
Streetcop said:
Codswollop!...
Could it be that cars parked in supermarket car parks aren't subject to road tax laws..
>> Edited by Streetcop on Monday 28th February 12:04
streetcop - you are seriously advocating his apathy? so, i assume the belief/defence is that because cars not on public highway they are not breaking any laws?
how on earth did they get there in the 1st place!? if abandoned cars i am sure the supermarket would have stickered them and organized their removal, pronto.
more likely, the chav owners of said untaxed and probably uninsured cars are inside the shop stocking up on strong cider/lager and pot noodles.
any chance to nab an untaxed and maybe uninsured car should be seized.
the dvla cannot own the responsibility here because they don't have "feet on the street" do they? such cars will probably not have a legitimate registered address and if they do write to the "owner" the dvla letter will just be binned anyway.
right, just off to post office to pay my road tax and submit my sorn for my laid-up moto morini.
deeen said:
But supermarket carparks are a "public place", according to the education we have recieved from PH BiB?
Absolutely correct...for the purposes of the Road Traffic Act...
ie: driving standards and reportable collision/accidents..
but not PUBLIC ROAD, repaired at PUBLIC EXPENSE for the purposes of Road Tax.....
Complicated stuff this legal mumbojumbo, you know..
egoboss said:
Codswollop!...
Could it be that cars parked in supermarket car parks aren't subject to road tax laws..
>> Edited by Streetcop on Monday 28th February 12:04
streetcop - you are seriously advocating his apathy? so, i assume the belief/defence is that because cars not on public highway they are not breaking any laws?
how on earth did they get there in the 1st place!? if abandoned cars i am sure the supermarket would have stickered them and organized their removal, pronto.
more likely, the chav owners of said untaxed and probably uninsured cars are inside the shop stocking up on strong cider/lager and pot noodles.
any chance to nab an untaxed and maybe uninsured car should be seized.
the dvla cannot own the responsibility here because they don't have "feet on the street" do they? such cars will probably not have a legitimate registered address and if they do write to the "owner" the dvla letter will just be binned anyway.
right, just off to post office to pay my road tax and submit my sorn for my laid-up moto morini.
Book them as they drive of the car park..... BIB have been doing that for years for other offences!
lunarscope said:
SC, as will be aware it's not "Road Tax" - it's "Vehicle Excise Duty".
I'm speaking for the masses here...
If I write OPL...will everyone know it's OVER THE PRESCRIBED LIMIT...(ie Drink Driving).
If I describe an offence of contravention of ATS...will everyone know it's Automatic Traffic Signals...(ie Traffic lights)
Do people know that HORT/1 meas HOME OFFICE ROAD TRAFFIC form 1????????
CMD?*
*=catch my drift?
This has long been my argument about the work of SCPs. The fact is, it is a system that relies upon the fact that a vehicle is registered to the person that owns and drives it, and at the address (s)he actually lives at. And who will therefore pay the fine, because being decent law-abiding people, they don't want BiBs knocking their door.
The scrote, in the worthless unregistered/uninsured car, driven whilst unlicensed/disqualified drives merrily past Gatsos with impunity. Stats show that such drivers are many times more likely to have an accident, drive dangerously, fail to stop, drink/drug drive etc....
So by doling out record numbers of fines, to decent motorist for minor infringements, the SCPs are actively feeding the growth of the aforementioned motoring underclass. Hard working, honest people cannot afford to insure a car, and at the same time, see little incentive to remain within the law when considering firstly the cahnces of getting caught, and then the joke sentences handed out when you actually do. Hence the figures which show that deaths are not falling nationally, uninsured driving is increasing, as is disqual driving, faling to stop etc....
SCPs contribute to a bigger problem than the one they aim, but have so far failed to solve.
The scrote, in the worthless unregistered/uninsured car, driven whilst unlicensed/disqualified drives merrily past Gatsos with impunity. Stats show that such drivers are many times more likely to have an accident, drive dangerously, fail to stop, drink/drug drive etc....
So by doling out record numbers of fines, to decent motorist for minor infringements, the SCPs are actively feeding the growth of the aforementioned motoring underclass. Hard working, honest people cannot afford to insure a car, and at the same time, see little incentive to remain within the law when considering firstly the cahnces of getting caught, and then the joke sentences handed out when you actually do. Hence the figures which show that deaths are not falling nationally, uninsured driving is increasing, as is disqual driving, faling to stop etc....
SCPs contribute to a bigger problem than the one they aim, but have so far failed to solve.
xxplod said:
This has long been my argument about the work of SCPs. The fact is, it is a system that relies upon the fact that a vehicle is registered to the person that owns and drives it, and at the address (s)he actually lives at. And who will therefore pay the fine, because being decent law-abiding people, they don't want BiBs knocking their door.
The scrote, in the worthless unregistered/uninsured car, driven whilst unlicensed/disqualified drives merrily past Gatsos with impunity. Stats show that such drivers are many times more likely to have an accident, drive dangerously, fail to stop, drink/drug drive etc....
So by doling out record numbers of fines, to decent motorist for minor infringements, the SCPs are actively feeding the growth of the aforementioned motoring underclass. Hard working, honest people cannot afford to insure a car, and at the same time, see little incentive to remain within the law when considering firstly the cahnces of getting caught, and then the joke sentences handed out when you actually do. Hence the figures which show that deaths are not falling nationally, uninsured driving is increasing, as is disqual driving, faling to stop etc....
SCPs contribute to a bigger problem than the one they aim, but have so far failed to solve.
Oh how I love this guy
xxplod said:
This has long been my argument about the work of SCPs. The fact is, it is a system that relies upon the fact that a vehicle is registered to the person that owns and drives it, and at the address (s)he actually lives at. And who will therefore pay the fine, because being decent law-abiding people, they don't want BiBs knocking their door.
The scrote, in the worthless unregistered/uninsured car, driven whilst unlicensed/disqualified drives merrily past Gatsos with impunity. Stats show that such drivers are many times more likely to have an accident, drive dangerously, fail to stop, drink/drug drive etc....
So by doling out record numbers of fines, to decent motorist for minor infringements, the SCPs are actively feeding the growth of the aforementioned motoring underclass. Hard working, honest people cannot afford to insure a car, and at the same time, see little incentive to remain within the law when considering firstly the cahnces of getting caught, and then the joke sentences handed out when you actually do. Hence the figures which show that deaths are not falling nationally, uninsured driving is increasing, as is disqual driving, faling to stop etc....
SCPs contribute to a bigger problem than the one they aim, but have so far failed to solve.
A voice of reason in a sea of apathy.
I've just been having this conversation with someone on the phone...
I don't actually work cameravans...not out of choice, just that we have more than enough volunteers v actual vans..
What I like about stopping the driver for speeding and sitting them in my car...is that I can look them in the eye and tell them why they are being prosecuted.....smell whethere they have had a drink...check their documents....the roadworthiness of their vehicle...and also...prevents any claims of 'not remembering who was driving'... 
I don't actually work cameravans...not out of choice, just that we have more than enough volunteers v actual vans..
What I like about stopping the driver for speeding and sitting them in my car...is that I can look them in the eye and tell them why they are being prosecuted.....smell whethere they have had a drink...check their documents....the roadworthiness of their vehicle...and also...prevents any claims of 'not remembering who was driving'...
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