Another vibration issue . . .
Discussion
Hi there,
I own a 2010 BMW 5 Series 530d, it has 49000 on the clock, I've owned it since 18000.
I do a daily commute to work down the M56 and a couple of months ago I noticed a vibration coming through my seat at around 70mph. Now, when I bought the car the dealer wouldn't change the n/s rear tyre as it was within legal limits so it stayed on, it was a Michelin Primacy RFT. The rest were Pirelli P Zero RFT's.
I thought I'd thrown a weight or something as the vibration is similar to a wheel unbalance but upon checking the tyre I noticed the usual uneven wear that RFT's as susceptible to. I change both rear tyres for brand new Pirelli RFT's hoping this would eliminate the vibration. It didn't, it was worse?? I took it back to the tyre garage (whom Ive used for years) and they rebalanced them, no change. The following is a summary of what I've done since then . . .
1. Replaced ALL tyres with Hankook Ventus Evo II non-run flats (I did this as the fronts were also worn and thats the first thing BMW would have said to do if I took it to them) - NO CHANGE
2. Had Hunter alignment checked and adjusted - NO CHANGE
3. Had wheels rebalanced at different garage - NO CHANGE
4. Had a flat spot in the rear o/s wheel (very minor one 2-3mm) straightened out - NO CHANGE
I then took it to a BMW indy who had it for two days. The agreed I have a vibration issue but they could not find what was causing it. They first told me I needed a new alloy wheel as, when they ran the car on the ramps, the wheel didn't look right?? They ordered me a new wheel (£520) but before they put it on they tried putting wheels from another 5 series they had on mine and test drove it - NO CHANGE. The wheel got cancelled. They looked at all joints, checked the propshaft and half shafts. They even ran the car whilst looking at the propshaft to see if it started vibrating but they couldn't physically see any moment. They said that all the weights on the propshaft (which are tack welded on) looked ok ie no obvious missing ones. They gave me my car back and said the only thing I can do is take it to BMW. They didn't charge me either, good lads.
I've since took the car to have a roadforce balance done using the Hunter machine. They told me that both my rear tyres were rubbish and need replacing (apparently they had 180Nm & 120Nm of torque and the tolerance is 60Nm) but they got this down to 100Nm and 80Nm by moving the tyres round the rim. They told me it would make a noticeable difference but I think its made it worse!!!
I would like to know if anyone has had similar problems or has any ideas on what could be wrong before I chop it in for something else.
My thoughts at the moment are wheel bearing or hub assembly or something suspension related. I dont want to just start swapping parts for the sake of it though due to the expense.
I love the car but I dont love driving it at the minute, any help would be appreciated
Regards
Dave
I own a 2010 BMW 5 Series 530d, it has 49000 on the clock, I've owned it since 18000.
I do a daily commute to work down the M56 and a couple of months ago I noticed a vibration coming through my seat at around 70mph. Now, when I bought the car the dealer wouldn't change the n/s rear tyre as it was within legal limits so it stayed on, it was a Michelin Primacy RFT. The rest were Pirelli P Zero RFT's.
I thought I'd thrown a weight or something as the vibration is similar to a wheel unbalance but upon checking the tyre I noticed the usual uneven wear that RFT's as susceptible to. I change both rear tyres for brand new Pirelli RFT's hoping this would eliminate the vibration. It didn't, it was worse?? I took it back to the tyre garage (whom Ive used for years) and they rebalanced them, no change. The following is a summary of what I've done since then . . .
1. Replaced ALL tyres with Hankook Ventus Evo II non-run flats (I did this as the fronts were also worn and thats the first thing BMW would have said to do if I took it to them) - NO CHANGE
2. Had Hunter alignment checked and adjusted - NO CHANGE
3. Had wheels rebalanced at different garage - NO CHANGE
4. Had a flat spot in the rear o/s wheel (very minor one 2-3mm) straightened out - NO CHANGE
I then took it to a BMW indy who had it for two days. The agreed I have a vibration issue but they could not find what was causing it. They first told me I needed a new alloy wheel as, when they ran the car on the ramps, the wheel didn't look right?? They ordered me a new wheel (£520) but before they put it on they tried putting wheels from another 5 series they had on mine and test drove it - NO CHANGE. The wheel got cancelled. They looked at all joints, checked the propshaft and half shafts. They even ran the car whilst looking at the propshaft to see if it started vibrating but they couldn't physically see any moment. They said that all the weights on the propshaft (which are tack welded on) looked ok ie no obvious missing ones. They gave me my car back and said the only thing I can do is take it to BMW. They didn't charge me either, good lads.
I've since took the car to have a roadforce balance done using the Hunter machine. They told me that both my rear tyres were rubbish and need replacing (apparently they had 180Nm & 120Nm of torque and the tolerance is 60Nm) but they got this down to 100Nm and 80Nm by moving the tyres round the rim. They told me it would make a noticeable difference but I think its made it worse!!!
I would like to know if anyone has had similar problems or has any ideas on what could be wrong before I chop it in for something else.
My thoughts at the moment are wheel bearing or hub assembly or something suspension related. I dont want to just start swapping parts for the sake of it though due to the expense.
I love the car but I dont love driving it at the minute, any help would be appreciated
Regards
Dave
Which ones?
The BMW technicians who checked the car told me there was some slight play in one of the differential bushings but nothing that would cause the vibration I am getting.
They also told me that they have exhausted (excuse the pun) all of their combined experience?? I am assuming they would have reported on any excessive play or wear on a bush/joint.
The BMW technicians who checked the car told me there was some slight play in one of the differential bushings but nothing that would cause the vibration I am getting.
They also told me that they have exhausted (excuse the pun) all of their combined experience?? I am assuming they would have reported on any excessive play or wear on a bush/joint.
.....since took the car to have a roadforce balance done using the Hunter machine. They told me that both my rear tyres were rubbish and need replacing (apparently they had 180Nm & 120Nm of torque and the tolerance is 60Nm) but they got this down to 100Nm and 80Nm by moving the tyres round the rim.
What does this mean? How can a tyre 'have' torque?
daveyboyd said:
Which ones?
I would have suggested the front control arm bushes. Had this problem on my old E39 and replaced them with new bushes and it solved the problem.However, the vibration issue seems to have been discussed at length! Looks like it's to do with the rear of the car: http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=...
REALIST123 said:
.....since took the car to have a roadforce balance done using the Hunter machine. They told me that both my rear tyres were rubbish and need replacing (apparently they had 180Nm & 120Nm of torque and the tolerance is 60Nm) but they got this down to 100Nm and 80Nm by moving the tyres round the rim.
What does this mean? How can a tyre 'have' torque?
I suspect they're talking about the couple due to the wheel being dynamically unbalanced.What does this mean? How can a tyre 'have' torque?
Imagine the wheel is a 2D disc. Its easy to balance by putting the right mass at the right location on the rim.
Imagine its now a 3D wheel. If you put the right mass at the right circumferential position on the rim, it can feel in balance when its not spinning; but if it is in the wrong position across the width of the wheel then the mass axis won't be aligned with the rotational axis, and the fight will generate a torque (which feels like a vibration because it's rotating with the wheel).
Mave said:
REALIST123 said:
.....since took the car to have a roadforce balance done using the Hunter machine. They told me that both my rear tyres were rubbish and need replacing (apparently they had 180Nm & 120Nm of torque and the tolerance is 60Nm) but they got this down to 100Nm and 80Nm by moving the tyres round the rim.
What does this mean? How can a tyre 'have' torque?
I suspect they're talking about the couple due to the wheel being dynamically unbalanced.What does this mean? How can a tyre 'have' torque?
Imagine the wheel is a 2D disc. Its easy to balance by putting the right mass at the right location on the rim.
Imagine its now a 3D wheel. If you put the right mass at the right circumferential position on the rim, it can feel in balance when its not spinning; but if it is in the wrong position across the width of the wheel then the mass axis won't be aligned with the rotational axis, and the fight will generate a torque (which feels like a vibration because it's rotating with the wheel).
Of 180Nm?
Most balancers balance dynamically but I've never seen one that measured the imbalance in anything other than grammes; well not for decades and then it was ounces!
The road force machine applies a rolling force to the tyre, the rolling force is measured in newton metre's which is a unit of torque. See the Hunter brochure here which explains the process . . .
http://www.pro-align.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014...
http://www.pro-align.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014...
The road force machine applies a rolling force to the tyre, the rolling force is measured in newton metre's which is a unit of torque. See the Hunter brochure here which explains the process . . .
http://www.pro-align.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014...
http://www.pro-align.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014...
Is this an f10 or e60?
I have an f10 and can feel something similar and I think it's a fairly common thing. The thing with the f10 steering is there is virtually no feedback from the road so I think any minor vibrations are more noticeable. Steering feedback and slow turn are the biggest negatives of what is otherwise a very good car.
I have an f10 and can feel something similar and I think it's a fairly common thing. The thing with the f10 steering is there is virtually no feedback from the road so I think any minor vibrations are more noticeable. Steering feedback and slow turn are the biggest negatives of what is otherwise a very good car.
Hi Dave,
Just wondering if you have managed to find a solution to your vibration between 70-80 mph. I've explored the same possible causes as yourself and I even have four new alloys and tyres, but the vibration is still noticeable.
Upon request, my local dealer is requesting the technical team from BMW examine my car, but no date as yet!
My vehicle has only done 35K, an AUC and no help from BMW.
Regards, Simon
Just wondering if you have managed to find a solution to your vibration between 70-80 mph. I've explored the same possible causes as yourself and I even have four new alloys and tyres, but the vibration is still noticeable.
Upon request, my local dealer is requesting the technical team from BMW examine my car, but no date as yet!
My vehicle has only done 35K, an AUC and no help from BMW.
Regards, Simon
I'm having the same with an '07 320i. At 50-55 mph a noticeable tremor starts up, and it's there even when you dip the clutch and engage neutral. We've swapped tyres and the newer, 'better' Bridgestones make it worse. Even had it up on a ramp with the rear wheels off, running it up to 60-70 through the gears and it's still there. You can feel it though the seat back and centre armrest. The car already had a pair of new driveshafts before my (hopefully short) ownership and the diff's been rebuilt. Nothing is obvious and shouting 'IT'S MEEEEEE!'
My attitude is 'b
ks to it'.
My attitude is 'b
ks to it'.iSore said:
I'm having the same with an '07 320i. At 50-55 mph a noticeable tremor starts up, and it's there even when you dip the clutch and engage neutral. We've swapped tyres and the newer, 'better' Bridgestones make it worse. Even had it up on a ramp with the rear wheels off, running it up to 60-70 through the gears and it's still there. You can feel it though the seat back and centre armrest. The car already had a pair of new driveshafts before my (hopefully short) ownership and the diff's been rebuilt. Nothing is obvious and shouting 'IT'S MEEEEEE!'
My attitude is 'bks to it'.
Have you had the propshaft centre support bearing and the universal joint/joints (guibo's) checked for deterioration?My attitude is 'b
ks to it'.T16OLE said:
What was the outcome?
Balance weight fell off the prop. Because there was a patch of unpainted and rusty steel as a witness mark of where it had been, it was easy enough to make another one from a bit of 2mm thick steel and weld it on - problem cured.A rare fault but not unknown apparently.
I have had terrible vibration problem with my F06 on 20 inch OEM wheels since buying it in April this year. Got so bad every now and then that I was convinced a wheel was coming loose so I stopped to check them.
I had the wheels balanced 4 times. I replaced all 4 tyres (Bridgestones). I replaced the front disks and pads (Zimmermann's). But the vibration still there.
The vibration wasn't constant. It came and went every 20 or 30 seconds, but never stayed the whole time. I researched and spoke to "pros" and they said if it comes and goes it would not be tyres. They said it would be bearings, bushes, ball joints, engine mounts, suspension components or prop shaft. But not wheels / tyres....
So, I learn't about road force balancing. Had that done today at The Tyre Shop (highly recommended) and have driven 70 miles and not a single vibration. The car drives spot on. £95 well spent, even though it seemed a lot for wheel balancing. BMW want £90 for an hours diagnostics.......
Hope that helps others. Bite the bullet and give it ago before replacing components .....
http://www.balancemycar.co.uk
[URL="http://www.thetyreshop.com"]
[/URL]
.
I had the wheels balanced 4 times. I replaced all 4 tyres (Bridgestones). I replaced the front disks and pads (Zimmermann's). But the vibration still there.
The vibration wasn't constant. It came and went every 20 or 30 seconds, but never stayed the whole time. I researched and spoke to "pros" and they said if it comes and goes it would not be tyres. They said it would be bearings, bushes, ball joints, engine mounts, suspension components or prop shaft. But not wheels / tyres....
So, I learn't about road force balancing. Had that done today at The Tyre Shop (highly recommended) and have driven 70 miles and not a single vibration. The car drives spot on. £95 well spent, even though it seemed a lot for wheel balancing. BMW want £90 for an hours diagnostics.......
Hope that helps others. Bite the bullet and give it ago before replacing components .....
http://www.balancemycar.co.uk
[URL="http://www.thetyreshop.com"]
[/URL]
.
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