Hybrids as company cars - Employee/Employer benefits
Discussion
Hi Guys
My company car is up for renewal and the current choice of cars are limited to exec saloons (A4/320d (efficient dynamics)) but there may be some wiggle room for other suitable cars which fit the profile.
I’ve had a 320d for the last three of years and I’m quite fond of it. It’s no M3 in looks or performance, but does what it needs to do in terms of munching the miles in a certain level of luxury whilst returning a healthy MPG. I pay for my own fuel.
I’m close to ordering another 320d (with a few extras), however, I feel I might be missing a trick with a hybrid.
There are two things attracting me to the Hybrid
1) Reducing cost (lower BIK, better MPG).
2) I actually like the idea of lowering emissions.
I’m looking at the 330e, possible the Merc c350e – though the latter might be out of the company car budget. Ideally looking at a £35k car.
• I commute 60 miles per day (50 is motorway, 10 is city).
• I live in the middle of the city with no off-street parking or means to charge the car overnight
• I do around 25k miles per year
• I pay for my own fuel (claim expenses for business miles)
• I’m a 40% tax payer
Your immediate thoughts are probably about the charging bit. Kind of defeats the object not having a charging point at home.. In terms of where I would be able to charge, I would like to propose to my company the idea of installing a charging point at the office. I’m unsure if there are any grants available (if done thoroughly), or if it’s simply a case of routing a cable out of the window into one of the parking bays.
Are there tax incentives for the employer? I understand there are reduced NICs, but are there also tax breaks for low emission leasing? We would lease the car as opposed to buying.
Looking at the 330e, it would save me £125 per month in tax alon againstt he 320d. This would mean even if I were to run on the 2l petrol all the time, I'd have to increase fuel spend from £250 to £375 per month, which I don't think would happen. Claimed figures are 50odd and I currently get high 50's out of the ED.
What are people’s experience with Hybrids? Am I commuting too much for this to benefit me? Even if I break even in cost, point 2 applies.
Thanks
My company car is up for renewal and the current choice of cars are limited to exec saloons (A4/320d (efficient dynamics)) but there may be some wiggle room for other suitable cars which fit the profile.
I’ve had a 320d for the last three of years and I’m quite fond of it. It’s no M3 in looks or performance, but does what it needs to do in terms of munching the miles in a certain level of luxury whilst returning a healthy MPG. I pay for my own fuel.
I’m close to ordering another 320d (with a few extras), however, I feel I might be missing a trick with a hybrid.
There are two things attracting me to the Hybrid
1) Reducing cost (lower BIK, better MPG).
2) I actually like the idea of lowering emissions.
I’m looking at the 330e, possible the Merc c350e – though the latter might be out of the company car budget. Ideally looking at a £35k car.
• I commute 60 miles per day (50 is motorway, 10 is city).
• I live in the middle of the city with no off-street parking or means to charge the car overnight
• I do around 25k miles per year
• I pay for my own fuel (claim expenses for business miles)
• I’m a 40% tax payer
Your immediate thoughts are probably about the charging bit. Kind of defeats the object not having a charging point at home.. In terms of where I would be able to charge, I would like to propose to my company the idea of installing a charging point at the office. I’m unsure if there are any grants available (if done thoroughly), or if it’s simply a case of routing a cable out of the window into one of the parking bays.
Are there tax incentives for the employer? I understand there are reduced NICs, but are there also tax breaks for low emission leasing? We would lease the car as opposed to buying.
Looking at the 330e, it would save me £125 per month in tax alon againstt he 320d. This would mean even if I were to run on the 2l petrol all the time, I'd have to increase fuel spend from £250 to £375 per month, which I don't think would happen. Claimed figures are 50odd and I currently get high 50's out of the ED.
What are people’s experience with Hybrids? Am I commuting too much for this to benefit me? Even if I break even in cost, point 2 applies.
Thanks
No actual experience but I've considered it and I think it's a bit win-win tbh, lower BIK, lower VED and you still get to keep the same mileage rates as a "pure" fuel car.
Presuming your're on the approved company car rates then you'd get 12ppm against 10ppm for the diesel. What that means in reality is you need to hit ~37.7mpg to break even against 48mpg for the diesel for your business miles.
I can nearly hit 37.7 in a bigger heavier 2.5T so a hybrid 2l should have no issue. The trouble is though that the "official" mpg is a joke, 149mpg or some such nonsense so you have no "benchmark" to compare it to the 320d to work out your "personal" mileage cost.
Presuming your're on the approved company car rates then you'd get 12ppm against 10ppm for the diesel. What that means in reality is you need to hit ~37.7mpg to break even against 48mpg for the diesel for your business miles.
I can nearly hit 37.7 in a bigger heavier 2.5T so a hybrid 2l should have no issue. The trouble is though that the "official" mpg is a joke, 149mpg or some such nonsense so you have no "benchmark" to compare it to the 320d to work out your "personal" mileage cost.
I've ordered the new Mitsubishi Outlander hybrid as a company car. A colleague has one and says the mpg is quite low around town, not sure of the figures. This is mainly because he has no charging point. On a run its just OK showing about 38-40 on mainly an A road journey of 150 miles.
Mitsubishi claim around 149mpg which he says is a joke. I'm sure though I read somewhere that they arrive at this figure by running all the testing in electric mode and only switch to petrol for a short period for emissions testing, therefore can quote a ridiculous mpg?
Mitsubishi claim around 149mpg which he says is a joke. I'm sure though I read somewhere that they arrive at this figure by running all the testing in electric mode and only switch to petrol for a short period for emissions testing, therefore can quote a ridiculous mpg?
foxsasha said:
100% tax write off for the full cost of the car in first year for the employer.
The op said it would be leased so this is irrelevant The only benefit to the employer is reduced employer NIC on the benefit in kind (reduced because it's a lower bik, the NIC rate is not affected)
Kwackersaki said:
Mitsubishi claim around 149mpg which he says is a joke. I'm sure though I read somewhere that they arrive at this figure by running all the testing in electric mode and only switch to petrol for a short period for emissions testing, therefore can quote a ridiculous mpg?
It's because the test has nothing in place for hybrids and is relatively short. So it can start with a full battery and end with an empty one. If the test was longer or the battery had to be fully discharged at the start (or fully charged at the end) it would be more realistic.
oop north said:
The op said it would be leased so this is irrelevant
The only benefit to the employer is reduced employer NIC on the benefit in kind (reduced because it's a lower bik, the NIC rate is not affected)
Oh yes, so he did.The only benefit to the employer is reduced employer NIC on the benefit in kind (reduced because it's a lower bik, the NIC rate is not affected)
With regards to mpg our Panamera hybrid officially does 91mpg. In the real world it does as few as 7 miles on electric alone round town in winter, around 12 now the weathers warming a little and 42mpg average. It does a lot of short trips so the electric element works well for us in bumping the MPG to a respectable figure for a two ton bus. If you spent more time doing any real distance then the MPG would fall dramatically.
Edited by foxsasha on Thursday 12th May 09:01
Thanks for the feedback so far
Yep, the car is going to be a 3 year lease (probably on 30k pa) so I wasn't sure whether there were still tax write-offs to be had, or if that only applied to purchasing the car outright.
I probably need to do some more homework comparing the mercedes etc which are still economic when running on juice.
Yep, the car is going to be a 3 year lease (probably on 30k pa) so I wasn't sure whether there were still tax write-offs to be had, or if that only applied to purchasing the car outright.
mcflurry said:
I find that motorway MPG is lower, as the car runs on dinosaur remains rather than electricity.
As you're doing 50/60 miles on one, it's probably worth a test drive before committing to 3 years?
Good shout. I'll see if I can borrow one from the lease company to see how the MPG applies to the real world.As you're doing 50/60 miles on one, it's probably worth a test drive before committing to 3 years?
PurpleMoonlight said:
If you can't charge the thing other than via the petrol engine what's the point of having it?
I should be able to charge it at work. So, theoretically, half of my 60/70 mile commute should be on electric. Though, this might imply I need to take A-roads or drive slower on the motorway.. I probably need to do some more homework comparing the mercedes etc which are still economic when running on juice.
Have a look here for more accurate data for mpg...
http://www.fuelly.com/car/mercedes-benz/c350e
http://www.fuelly.com/car/mitsubishi/outlander - change submodel for the PHEV
http://www.fuelly.com/car/bmw/activehybrid_3 - 330e?
http://www.fuelly.com/car/mercedes-benz/c350e
http://www.fuelly.com/car/mitsubishi/outlander - change submodel for the PHEV
http://www.fuelly.com/car/bmw/activehybrid_3 - 330e?
Fastdruid said:
Kwackersaki said:
Mitsubishi claim around 149mpg which he says is a joke. I'm sure though I read somewhere that they arrive at this figure by running all the testing in electric mode and only switch to petrol for a short period for emissions testing, therefore can quote a ridiculous mpg?
It's because the test has nothing in place for hybrids and is relatively short. So it can start with a full battery and end with an empty one. If the test was longer or the battery had to be fully discharged at the start (or fully charged at the end) it would be more realistic.
Mileage should be on total energy consumption. Its no different to say letting Diesels do their mpg figures on long downward hill.
Your biggest issue might well be availability; I think the lead time for a 330e is well over 6 months now...
But on a practical level, I bought an A3 e-tron as an ex demo for my partner, basically looking at it as a well equipped petrol A3 with a 'free' electric motor. Given that most of its journey are under 15 miles each way, which is possibly its sweet spot as a petrol hybrid, the actual overall economy of around 100mpg is impressive. That's over around 3k miles in the three months we've had it. On longer journeys (included in the overall 100mpg average) it'll do around 50 mpg driven normally, or 40ish if driven quickly. Having had one, I'd certainly never buy another diesel... The combination of refinement, acceleration and economy is impressive in what is, fundamentally, a smallish hatchback.
I'd imagine the 3 series would improve on the refinement further, though I guess it's higher power is offset by higher weight in the real world when it comes to economy and performance?
But on a practical level, I bought an A3 e-tron as an ex demo for my partner, basically looking at it as a well equipped petrol A3 with a 'free' electric motor. Given that most of its journey are under 15 miles each way, which is possibly its sweet spot as a petrol hybrid, the actual overall economy of around 100mpg is impressive. That's over around 3k miles in the three months we've had it. On longer journeys (included in the overall 100mpg average) it'll do around 50 mpg driven normally, or 40ish if driven quickly. Having had one, I'd certainly never buy another diesel... The combination of refinement, acceleration and economy is impressive in what is, fundamentally, a smallish hatchback.
I'd imagine the 3 series would improve on the refinement further, though I guess it's higher power is offset by higher weight in the real world when it comes to economy and performance?
I picked up my C350e last week and it is brilliant... for me.
You really need to look at your driving habits and your average journey distance before opting to get one. As you don't have a full expensed fuel card, I'm assuming fuel economy is of reasonable importance? The lack of charging capability at home is also an issue.
On my commute (19 miles), I'm get around 84-99 mpg; but I achieve that as my commute is only slightly longer than my battery range and I charge it fully at home and at work.
I did a 130 mile trip last week and I averaged 45 mpg; my previous diesel Audi would have returned 50-60 mpg.
Yes, there are big savings to be made in tax, but if you aren't charging the car then the mpg is similar to driving a heavy petrol car. It will charge whilst driving (brake regen, coasting, over-reving engine), but the returns are minimal and the charge mode drinks fuel.
As suggested, get your hands on a demo and test your route. Lead times are crazy at the moment, so be prepared to wait.
On the plus side, my Merc and the BMW go like stink in sports mode
You really need to look at your driving habits and your average journey distance before opting to get one. As you don't have a full expensed fuel card, I'm assuming fuel economy is of reasonable importance? The lack of charging capability at home is also an issue.
On my commute (19 miles), I'm get around 84-99 mpg; but I achieve that as my commute is only slightly longer than my battery range and I charge it fully at home and at work.
I did a 130 mile trip last week and I averaged 45 mpg; my previous diesel Audi would have returned 50-60 mpg.
Yes, there are big savings to be made in tax, but if you aren't charging the car then the mpg is similar to driving a heavy petrol car. It will charge whilst driving (brake regen, coasting, over-reving engine), but the returns are minimal and the charge mode drinks fuel.
As suggested, get your hands on a demo and test your route. Lead times are crazy at the moment, so be prepared to wait.
On the plus side, my Merc and the BMW go like stink in sports mode
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