Beginner track day advice (£5k budget)
Discussion
Hi all,
I'm looking to purchase a second car primarily for weekend fun and track days. To give a bit of context my daily driver is an Audi S3 Sportback, I'm based outside Edinburgh so 4WD is useful during winter and Knockhill is my local track. I have previously owned a couple of MX5's having most recently sold the last one just two months ago, I don't fancy another MX5 as firstly I fancy something different and secondly I need to be able to fit a relatively large amount of camera equipment in the back (cameras, crane, dolly etc).
The cars I am considering are the EP3 civic type r, and the Clio 172 cup. I am also open to 172 and 182 variations including the trophy. With this being said I am open to reasoned suggestions which must take into account that the car will be parked outside, must have space to fit the camera equipment in (in other words no 2 seater convertibles), and all in fit roughly within the £5k budget (including required/recommended upgrades and modifications).
This leads me into the second part of the equation. Having purchased the car, factoring in the total £5k budget, what's the best way to invest these funds? Do I purchase a Clio trophy at £5k or a 172 cup at £2k and upgrade suspension and brakes etc. Do people recommend driver training? Are there any specific track driving courses people would recommend? Are there requirements such as a roll cage or crash helmet to take your car on track? How supportive are other track day users of people that have never completed a track day before?
Lots of questions I know but it's mainly a conversation starter. Any advice would be appreciated.
Many thanks
I'm looking to purchase a second car primarily for weekend fun and track days. To give a bit of context my daily driver is an Audi S3 Sportback, I'm based outside Edinburgh so 4WD is useful during winter and Knockhill is my local track. I have previously owned a couple of MX5's having most recently sold the last one just two months ago, I don't fancy another MX5 as firstly I fancy something different and secondly I need to be able to fit a relatively large amount of camera equipment in the back (cameras, crane, dolly etc).
The cars I am considering are the EP3 civic type r, and the Clio 172 cup. I am also open to 172 and 182 variations including the trophy. With this being said I am open to reasoned suggestions which must take into account that the car will be parked outside, must have space to fit the camera equipment in (in other words no 2 seater convertibles), and all in fit roughly within the £5k budget (including required/recommended upgrades and modifications).
This leads me into the second part of the equation. Having purchased the car, factoring in the total £5k budget, what's the best way to invest these funds? Do I purchase a Clio trophy at £5k or a 172 cup at £2k and upgrade suspension and brakes etc. Do people recommend driver training? Are there any specific track driving courses people would recommend? Are there requirements such as a roll cage or crash helmet to take your car on track? How supportive are other track day users of people that have never completed a track day before?
Lots of questions I know but it's mainly a conversation starter. Any advice would be appreciated.
Many thanks
Minimum requirements are a roadworthy car not leaking fluids, a driving licence and a crash helmet - full face at most tracks if your car is a convertible, open face if a tin top.
Roll cage etc is your choice. Good brakes are the best way of going faster.
Tuition is a good idea. Generally £20 for 20 minutes, but it really helps your track driving fun.
Car - your suggestion of a Clio 172/182 is a good one IMHO. Doesn't matter which, handling is what matters, not speed.
Tracks - beginning you might prefer airfield type tracks like Bedford - less to hit if you get it wrong.
Later you will prefer proper race tracks for their challenge and corners, and will come to appreciate that tracks are all about the corners, not how fast you can get down the straight. The favourite amongst regular and unpretentious track dayers is Cadwell Park - up and down hills, 15 corners in 2.1 miles. Power almost irrelevant, cornering skill and handling where it's at.
I have chased a Clio 172 round Cadwell with 140 more BHP and not been able to catch him.
Roll cage etc is your choice. Good brakes are the best way of going faster.
Tuition is a good idea. Generally £20 for 20 minutes, but it really helps your track driving fun.
Car - your suggestion of a Clio 172/182 is a good one IMHO. Doesn't matter which, handling is what matters, not speed.
Tracks - beginning you might prefer airfield type tracks like Bedford - less to hit if you get it wrong.
Later you will prefer proper race tracks for their challenge and corners, and will come to appreciate that tracks are all about the corners, not how fast you can get down the straight. The favourite amongst regular and unpretentious track dayers is Cadwell Park - up and down hills, 15 corners in 2.1 miles. Power almost irrelevant, cornering skill and handling where it's at.
I have chased a Clio 172 round Cadwell with 140 more BHP and not been able to catch him.
Edited by QBee on Friday 13th May 22:13
QBee said:
Minimum requirements are a roadworthy car not leaking fluids, a driving licence and a crash helmet - full face at most tracks if your car is a convertible, open face if a tin top.
Roll cage etc is your choice. Good brakes are the best way of going faster.
Tuition is a good idea. Generally £20 for 20 minutes, but it really helps your track driving fun.
Car - your suggestion of a Clio 172/182 is a good one IMHO. Doesn't matter which, handling is what matters, not speed.
Tracks - beginning you might prefer airfield type tracks like Bedford - less to hit if you get it wrong.
Later you will prefer proper race tracks for their challenge and corners, and will come to appreciate that tracks are all about the corners, not how fast you can get down the straight. The favourite amongst regular and unpretentious track dayers is Cadwell Park - up and down hills, 15 corners in 2.1 miles. Power almost irrelevant, cornering skill and handling where it's at.
I have chased a Clio 172 round Cadwell with 140 more BHP and not been able to catch him.
That's all very useful to know, it's good to know I'm thinking on the right track and also the driver training would be a fair chunk cheaper than I was expecting.Roll cage etc is your choice. Good brakes are the best way of going faster.
Tuition is a good idea. Generally £20 for 20 minutes, but it really helps your track driving fun.
Car - your suggestion of a Clio 172/182 is a good one IMHO. Doesn't matter which, handling is what matters, not speed.
Tracks - beginning you might prefer airfield type tracks like Bedford - less to hit if you get it wrong.
Later you will prefer proper race tracks for their challenge and corners, and will come to appreciate that tracks are all about the corners, not how fast you can get down the straight. The favourite amongst regular and unpretentious track dayers is Cadwell Park - up and down hills, 15 corners in 2.1 miles. Power almost irrelevant, cornering skill and handling where it's at.
I have chased a Clio 172 round Cadwell with 140 more BHP and not been able to catch him.
Edited by QBee on Friday 13th May 22:13
t4thomas said:
A bit of a tidy-up on this and enough spare change for throttle bodies and standalone engine management:
clicky
I know many people recommend the 106 Rallye however for me I'm not a fan of the looks. For some people that may be completely irrelevant but given there are other cars that in the budget that I regard as looking "cool" such as the Clio, I would prefer that with itb's and engine management. Thanks for the link though, suggestions are welcome and it was an interesting read.clicky
mikey P 500 said:
For around £5k if you want a small hot hatch for track days you could do worse than an r56 mini (the turbo one) easily remap to 250bhp with few other mods and are very good fun to chuck about on track.
I actually owned one of these previously. I was advised not to buy one due to their reliability issues, bought it anyway, and it was in the garage for specialist repairs 3 times in 12 months. Given that was just a daily driver not being driven particularly hard, my experience would cause me constant concern regarding whether it was about to break. I may have just been unlucky but fact fully that was the least reliable car I've owned and due to that I wouldn't buy another.
Quick ps on helmets, if you are thinking of buying one. A full face can be worn in any car, you can get away with an open face if your car is a tin top. You can hire one at the track for a tenner for most track days.
BUT, when the owner of a TVR Griffith, Lotus Elise, Caterham, Radical, Ferrari California, etc etc offers you a passenger ride, you will need to have a full face helmet at all MSV tracks (Brands Hatch, Cadwell Park, Oulton Park, Snetterton, Bedford), and the other organisers are bound to follow suit soon. So my advice is get a full face one (or one of each!)
The other ps is tyres. In the wet you will be better off using normal road tyres. In the dry, having a second set of wheels, with track tyres on, will improve your fun. We can give you track tyre advice when we know what car you have chosen.
So, upgrade the brakes and brake fluid, get some track tyres and wheels, but I wouldn't waste any cash on engine upgrades until you are sure that you want to continue track daying. On a twisty circuit the fastest car is the best driven, not the most powerful.
Don't believe me?
I am a reasonably competent track driver, with a one tonne, 315 BHP TVR. I have been caught in the corners at Cadwell Park by an expertly driven........wait for it.......1098 cc Hillman Imp. Standard engine, slow on the three short straights at Cadwell, but boy, could he drive corners and carry speed. He's the only driver who I have gone back to the pits, run across to the grandstand, and sat and watched to see how he did it. Balanced car, slow into the corner, accelerate through and fast out.
BUT, when the owner of a TVR Griffith, Lotus Elise, Caterham, Radical, Ferrari California, etc etc offers you a passenger ride, you will need to have a full face helmet at all MSV tracks (Brands Hatch, Cadwell Park, Oulton Park, Snetterton, Bedford), and the other organisers are bound to follow suit soon. So my advice is get a full face one (or one of each!)
The other ps is tyres. In the wet you will be better off using normal road tyres. In the dry, having a second set of wheels, with track tyres on, will improve your fun. We can give you track tyre advice when we know what car you have chosen.
So, upgrade the brakes and brake fluid, get some track tyres and wheels, but I wouldn't waste any cash on engine upgrades until you are sure that you want to continue track daying. On a twisty circuit the fastest car is the best driven, not the most powerful.
Don't believe me?
I am a reasonably competent track driver, with a one tonne, 315 BHP TVR. I have been caught in the corners at Cadwell Park by an expertly driven........wait for it.......1098 cc Hillman Imp. Standard engine, slow on the three short straights at Cadwell, but boy, could he drive corners and carry speed. He's the only driver who I have gone back to the pits, run across to the grandstand, and sat and watched to see how he did it. Balanced car, slow into the corner, accelerate through and fast out.
QBee said:
Quick ps on helmets, if you are thinking of buying one. A full face can be worn in any car, you can get away with an open face if your car is a tin top. You can hire one at the track for a tenner for most track days.
BUT, when the owner of a TVR Griffith, Lotus Elise, Caterham, Radical, Ferrari California, etc etc offers you a passenger ride, you will need to have a full face helmet at all MSV tracks (Brands Hatch, Cadwell Park, Oulton Park, Snetterton, Bedford), and the other organisers are bound to follow suit soon. So my advice is get a full face one (or one of each!)
The other ps is tyres. In the wet you will be better off using normal road tyres. In the dry, having a second set of wheels, with track tyres on, will improve your fun. We can give you track tyre advice when we know what car you have chosen.
So, upgrade the brakes and brake fluid, get some track tyres and wheels, but I wouldn't waste any cash on engine upgrades until you are sure that you want to continue track daying. On a twisty circuit the fastest car is the best driven, not the most powerful.
Don't believe me?
I am a reasonably competent track driver, with a one tonne, 315 BHP TVR. I have been caught in the corners at Cadwell Park by an expertly driven........wait for it.......1098 cc Hillman Imp. Standard engine, slow on the three short straights at Cadwell, but boy, could he drive corners and carry speed. He's the only driver who I have gone back to the pits, run across to the grandstand, and sat and watched to see how he did it. Balanced car, slow into the corner, accelerate through and fast out.
Thanks Qbee, I think a full face lid will be the first choice, and then take it from there.BUT, when the owner of a TVR Griffith, Lotus Elise, Caterham, Radical, Ferrari California, etc etc offers you a passenger ride, you will need to have a full face helmet at all MSV tracks (Brands Hatch, Cadwell Park, Oulton Park, Snetterton, Bedford), and the other organisers are bound to follow suit soon. So my advice is get a full face one (or one of each!)
The other ps is tyres. In the wet you will be better off using normal road tyres. In the dry, having a second set of wheels, with track tyres on, will improve your fun. We can give you track tyre advice when we know what car you have chosen.
So, upgrade the brakes and brake fluid, get some track tyres and wheels, but I wouldn't waste any cash on engine upgrades until you are sure that you want to continue track daying. On a twisty circuit the fastest car is the best driven, not the most powerful.
Don't believe me?
I am a reasonably competent track driver, with a one tonne, 315 BHP TVR. I have been caught in the corners at Cadwell Park by an expertly driven........wait for it.......1098 cc Hillman Imp. Standard engine, slow on the three short straights at Cadwell, but boy, could he drive corners and carry speed. He's the only driver who I have gone back to the pits, run across to the grandstand, and sat and watched to see how he did it. Balanced car, slow into the corner, accelerate through and fast out.
I also understand the handling over top speed comments, my S3 is up at 323bhp and it makes a great daily driver but my old MX5 were much more involving with their 140/160bhp. There is a reason as to why when I turn up at Knockhill the paddock is full of Clio and Civics and not Audi S3's...
All this being said the purchase will be happening in the next couple of weeks providing I can find a good example at a good price. Loosely termed I would imagine a split of £3k on purchase and £2k on brake, suspension, helmet and a couple of bucket seats would be a good start.
Mashley Media said:
QBee said:
Minimum requirements are a roadworthy car not leaking fluids, a driving licence and a crash helmet - full face at most tracks if your car is a convertible, open face if a tin top.
Roll cage etc is your choice. Good brakes are the best way of going faster.
Tuition is a good idea. Generally £20 for 20 minutes, but it really helps your track driving fun.
Car - your suggestion of a Clio 172/182 is a good one IMHO. Doesn't matter which, handling is what matters, not speed.
Tracks - beginning you might prefer airfield type tracks like Bedford - less to hit if you get it wrong.
Later you will prefer proper race tracks for their challenge and corners, and will come to appreciate that tracks are all about the corners, not how fast you can get down the straight. The favourite amongst regular and unpretentious track dayers is Cadwell Park - up and down hills, 15 corners in 2.1 miles. Power almost irrelevant, cornering skill and handling where it's at.
I have chased a Clio 172 round Cadwell with 140 more BHP and not been able to catch him.
That's all very useful to know, it's good to know I'm thinking on the right track and also the driver training would be a fair chunk cheaper than I was expecting.Roll cage etc is your choice. Good brakes are the best way of going faster.
Tuition is a good idea. Generally £20 for 20 minutes, but it really helps your track driving fun.
Car - your suggestion of a Clio 172/182 is a good one IMHO. Doesn't matter which, handling is what matters, not speed.
Tracks - beginning you might prefer airfield type tracks like Bedford - less to hit if you get it wrong.
Later you will prefer proper race tracks for their challenge and corners, and will come to appreciate that tracks are all about the corners, not how fast you can get down the straight. The favourite amongst regular and unpretentious track dayers is Cadwell Park - up and down hills, 15 corners in 2.1 miles. Power almost irrelevant, cornering skill and handling where it's at.
I have chased a Clio 172 round Cadwell with 140 more BHP and not been able to catch him.
Edited by QBee on Friday 13th May 22:13
And the little thing is great fun, and truly punches way above its weight on track. Having owned much more power cars previously I did wonder if I would spend all day watching my mirrors, but far from it. Yes there are faster cars, but most track days I enjoy chasing down the 'faster' cars.
If you do decide to go the Clio route, I cannot recommend the Carbotech brakes enough. They are pricey, but so good. As an example last week at Rockingham I was outbraking slick shod race cars.
Qbee, was the 172 blue with white wheels?
I may be biased but an EP3 is a good shout. You can pick one up for £3.5- £4k with most of the upgrades you'll want Coilovers, rear camber arms, brake upgrades, induction and ECU mods. Then you can strip it and get some bucket seats, harnesses and semi slicks.
I did it the expensive way and bought a standard car and upgraded it myself. I wouldn't recommend that.
It's a very reliable car as long as its serviced and although as a beginner all out speed isn't that important at the moment it has good inherent speed for a hot hatch. It has only got ABS so it will teach you car control as there isn't any systems to save you from spinning.
To give you an indication mine has done a 56.60 around Brands Indy and a 8 min 02 around the Nurburgring so although they aren't seen as a traditionally fast track car they have pace.
Here is my spec list which is pretty much a standard list (The Stoptech BBK isn't normal most people update the pads, fluid and lines) which will give you a solid track car.
She's a 2003 non A/C pre facelift
229bhp 165 ft/lbs
Japspeed 4-2-1 manifold
Tegiwa catback
Injen CAI
RBC non ported
Hondata K100
Mfactory plated LSD
Fidanza flywheel
Clockwise baffled sump
Yellow speed coilovers
Rear camber arms
24mm rear ARB
Rack raiser
Shortened steering arms
Superpro Castor bushes
Fully polybushed
75a engine mounts
Stoptech 328mm 4 pot Front BBK w/ Pagid RS29
Standard rear calliper with PBS
Standard Enkei wheels w/ 215/45/17 Dunlop Direzza DZ03G
Stripped with a safety devices half cage
I-shift shift lights
If you do fancy one and want some more info please give me a shout.
I did it the expensive way and bought a standard car and upgraded it myself. I wouldn't recommend that.
It's a very reliable car as long as its serviced and although as a beginner all out speed isn't that important at the moment it has good inherent speed for a hot hatch. It has only got ABS so it will teach you car control as there isn't any systems to save you from spinning.
To give you an indication mine has done a 56.60 around Brands Indy and a 8 min 02 around the Nurburgring so although they aren't seen as a traditionally fast track car they have pace.
Here is my spec list which is pretty much a standard list (The Stoptech BBK isn't normal most people update the pads, fluid and lines) which will give you a solid track car.
She's a 2003 non A/C pre facelift
229bhp 165 ft/lbs
Japspeed 4-2-1 manifold
Tegiwa catback
Injen CAI
RBC non ported
Hondata K100
Mfactory plated LSD
Fidanza flywheel
Clockwise baffled sump
Yellow speed coilovers
Rear camber arms
24mm rear ARB
Rack raiser
Shortened steering arms
Superpro Castor bushes
Fully polybushed
75a engine mounts
Stoptech 328mm 4 pot Front BBK w/ Pagid RS29
Standard rear calliper with PBS
Standard Enkei wheels w/ 215/45/17 Dunlop Direzza DZ03G
Stripped with a safety devices half cage
I-shift shift lights
If you do fancy one and want some more info please give me a shout.
I have an integra type R for sale at the moment on Ebay - Road legal track car and comes with spare track wheels and tyres R888. She is ready to go and would be perfect for what you need.
I am not sure I am allowed to do this, but here is the link if you were interested.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-Honda-Integra-DC2-T...
I am not sure I am allowed to do this, but here is the link if you were interested.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-Honda-Integra-DC2-T...
Ecksloon said:
I have an integra type R for sale at the moment on Ebay - Road legal track car and comes with spare track wheels and tyres R888. She is ready to go and would be perfect for what you need.
I am not sure I am allowed to do this, but here is the link if you were interested.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-Honda-Integra-DC2-T...
Very nice, however I've actually decided that I want to build my own track car from scratch. I appreciate its more expensive to do it this way however I will get more enjoyment in the project as a whole.I am not sure I am allowed to do this, but here is the link if you were interested.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1998-Honda-Integra-DC2-T...
Good luck selling your ITR
I'll chip in on this one.
Buy the 172 Cup (I did). It's got no sound deadening so when you strip it (first job) it's easier.
Invest in a set of decent tyres (A048, R888R and so on), upgrade the pads, fluid, stick in some used KW V3s, FRP seat, harnesses, cage, poly bush it, rear ARB and some bracing...job done.
Then get carried away as I did and fit lexan everywhere, FRP doors, bonnet, boot, Oreca Group A exhaust (97db static), engine tweak to 200hp (various routes) and job even more done.
Seriously though, any Clio Cup just on good rubber in the right hands will be a decent tool.
Buy the 172 Cup (I did). It's got no sound deadening so when you strip it (first job) it's easier.
Invest in a set of decent tyres (A048, R888R and so on), upgrade the pads, fluid, stick in some used KW V3s, FRP seat, harnesses, cage, poly bush it, rear ARB and some bracing...job done.
Then get carried away as I did and fit lexan everywhere, FRP doors, bonnet, boot, Oreca Group A exhaust (97db static), engine tweak to 200hp (various routes) and job even more done.
Seriously though, any Clio Cup just on good rubber in the right hands will be a decent tool.
nightSpirit said:
I'll chip in on this one.
Buy the 172 Cup (I did). It's got no sound deadening so when you strip it (first job) it's easier.
Invest in a set of decent tyres (A048, R888R and so on), upgrade the pads, fluid, stick in some used KW V3s, FRP seat, harnesses, cage, poly bush it, rear ARB and some bracing...job done.
Then get carried away as I did and fit lexan everywhere, FRP doors, bonnet, boot, Oreca Group A exhaust (97db static), engine tweak to 200hp (various routes) and job even more done.
Seriously though, any Clio Cup just on good rubber in the right hands will be a decent tool.
Ha!Buy the 172 Cup (I did). It's got no sound deadening so when you strip it (first job) it's easier.
Invest in a set of decent tyres (A048, R888R and so on), upgrade the pads, fluid, stick in some used KW V3s, FRP seat, harnesses, cage, poly bush it, rear ARB and some bracing...job done.
Then get carried away as I did and fit lexan everywhere, FRP doors, bonnet, boot, Oreca Group A exhaust (97db static), engine tweak to 200hp (various routes) and job even more done.
Seriously though, any Clio Cup just on good rubber in the right hands will be a decent tool.
Apologies, I've been meaning to update this thread.
I'm actually currently the highest bidder on a Clio 172 cup. However there are still two days to go so I'll need to see how it pans out... Tbh I think my purchase will come down to what's available. I went back and priced up an MX5, and I appreciate they aren't the fastest, and I know I said I had ruled them out, but I've already owned 2 of them so I have a soft spot...... I just don't know, but whichever I buy I know I'll enjoy it and I should stress that this won't be a solely dedicated track weapon. I want it to see a lot of daily use through summer and drives through the Highlands, however at the same time it will see track work and the budget still stands as £2k purchase, £3k upgrades.
The other factor that comes to mind is when it's seeing this road use, and I'm going on a weekend away driving through the mountains of Scotland (which happens often as I'm a Londoner who can't get over the roads up here), I want my missus to want to take the weekend car otherwise it will be far too easy to just take the S3 instead, which defeats the point of purchasing a special, fun, drivers car. I'm fortunate, my missus is into cars, had as good a knowledge on them as 90% of people on here, and she has watched videos on cups and trophy's but she can't get past the fact it looks almost identical to the 1.2 dynamique which she owned for 7 years! As you can imagine, there wasn't much love left for that car at the end.
So yeah... Haven't got a clue what I want but currently bidding on a cup with no regrets...
Hi guys,
So after taking on board all your points, reading the virtues of both the CTR and various Clio models, I went out this morning and purchased the MX5 below... I fully appreciate this goes completely against everything which I said I needed however I just like them and it offers a different enough experience to the practical performance of the Audi being that it's convertible and rear wheel drive and requires fluid driving rather than simply making the most out of power.
Now my questions are going to be mx5 specific I'll end this thread and will be starting a build diary within the MX5 forum. Thanks for all the advice, I'll update here with the new thread once I've started it, just incase any of you are interested in following it
So after taking on board all your points, reading the virtues of both the CTR and various Clio models, I went out this morning and purchased the MX5 below... I fully appreciate this goes completely against everything which I said I needed however I just like them and it offers a different enough experience to the practical performance of the Audi being that it's convertible and rear wheel drive and requires fluid driving rather than simply making the most out of power.
Now my questions are going to be mx5 specific I'll end this thread and will be starting a build diary within the MX5 forum. Thanks for all the advice, I'll update here with the new thread once I've started it, just incase any of you are interested in following it
Cant go wrong with a light RWD car, good choice.
Albeit a tad late my advice would have been to forget the looks and go for the best starting point your 5K budget would allow, as 5K isn't much to be fair. I would have been looking at already prepared track cars, since they offer the best value for money. Starting with a road car you will always spend more than buying a half or fully prepared car.
Anyways, a Mk2.5 with LSD is a good starting point. Get the brakes up to par for sustained use. Suspension, Seats and harnesses, ideally a cage given its a vert. and you are laughing. Then its a case of do you want to play with little grip or lots of grip.
From experience, little grip is great fun, albeit sometimes frustrating as being eaten up by cars you would otherwise be able to stick with, but who cares when you are going sideways going in and coming out of the corners.
Out of curiosity, how much did this MX-5 set you back?
Albeit a tad late my advice would have been to forget the looks and go for the best starting point your 5K budget would allow, as 5K isn't much to be fair. I would have been looking at already prepared track cars, since they offer the best value for money. Starting with a road car you will always spend more than buying a half or fully prepared car.
Anyways, a Mk2.5 with LSD is a good starting point. Get the brakes up to par for sustained use. Suspension, Seats and harnesses, ideally a cage given its a vert. and you are laughing. Then its a case of do you want to play with little grip or lots of grip.
From experience, little grip is great fun, albeit sometimes frustrating as being eaten up by cars you would otherwise be able to stick with, but who cares when you are going sideways going in and coming out of the corners.
Out of curiosity, how much did this MX-5 set you back?
Edited by Humour on Monday 23 May 19:27
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