Simpo gets his head round custom curves
Discussion
This made me laugh:
'Misconception 9: I don't need custom tone curves becaue I like to post-process every image. Response: You are a sado-masochistic, self-flagellant individual with highly developed computer skills.'
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/custom_tone_curves_2.html
'Misconception 9: I don't need custom tone curves becaue I like to post-process every image. Response: You are a sado-masochistic, self-flagellant individual with highly developed computer skills.'
http://fotogenetic.dearingfilm.com/custom_tone_curves_2.html
Hmm, I need bigger nutcrackers.
I downloaded three curves and they are .ntc files.
Aha, thinks I, I will fire up PS, load an image and apply the curves to see the difference.
PS only wants .acv, .atf, or .amp files. Not interested in .ntc-flavoured ones at all.
Aha, thinks I, this must be a job for my secret weapon Nikon Capture (4.2). I will wheel it out, fire it up, load an image and apply the curves to see the difference.
Arse. Nikon Capture only eats .set files.
Or maybe these curves can only be used in-camera and not afterwards?
Another question: if I'm brave enough (and clever enough) to load one of these .ntc chaps ito my D70 - and of course there's nothing about it it the manual - and I don't like the result, I presume it's overwritten the default curve, no? How do I get it back? Can the store more than one?
Baffled.
I downloaded three curves and they are .ntc files.
Aha, thinks I, I will fire up PS, load an image and apply the curves to see the difference.
PS only wants .acv, .atf, or .amp files. Not interested in .ntc-flavoured ones at all.
Aha, thinks I, this must be a job for my secret weapon Nikon Capture (4.2). I will wheel it out, fire it up, load an image and apply the curves to see the difference.
Arse. Nikon Capture only eats .set files.
Or maybe these curves can only be used in-camera and not afterwards?
Another question: if I'm brave enough (and clever enough) to load one of these .ntc chaps ito my D70 - and of course there's nothing about it it the manual - and I don't like the result, I presume it's overwritten the default curve, no? How do I get it back? Can the store more than one?
Baffled.
OK - I'm probably being thick here.
Isn't the best set up to shoot RAW (NEF) and maintain this as your original (like a negative) carrying out all post processing at your hearts content using Capture (or similar) and Photoshop (or similar).
If you're going to Bv$$3r around with the image in camera won't this defeat the whole object?
Isn't the best set up to shoot RAW (NEF) and maintain this as your original (like a negative) carrying out all post processing at your hearts content using Capture (or similar) and Photoshop (or similar).
If you're going to Bv$$3r around with the image in camera won't this defeat the whole object?
beano500 said:
Isn't the best set up to shoot RAW (NEF) and maintain this as your original (like a negative) carrying out all post processing at your hearts content using Capture (or similar) and Photoshop (or similar).
If you're going to Bv$$3r around with the image in camera won't this defeat the whole object?
As I understand it the curve is 'applied' to the NEF file so that, whilst the data ia unadulterated, it's automatically processed using the curve later. You can remove the curve's effect and use a different one if you like. The idea is just to cut down on repetitive adjustments in processing.
I'm interested as it's a way to add EV whilst preserving highlights.
I think the D70 stores the default curve plus one other, but how you switch between them, I haven't figured out yet. I think it should keep a few, so you can select the one for the occasion. Perhaps this is the kind of thing the D2X does?
beano500 said:
If you're going to Bv$$3r around with the image in camera won't this defeat the whole object?
IMHO
simpo two said:
I'm interested as it's a way to add EV whilst preserving highlights.
RAW
simpo two said:
II think the D70 stores the default curve plus one other, but how you switch between them, I haven't figured out yet. I think it should keep a few, so you can select the one for the occasion. Perhaps this is the kind of thing the D2X does?
I know nothing about these curves and loading them on Nikons (or Canons for that matter), so I stand to be corrected. The priceable sounds OK and in theory, sounds like you should be able to achieve better tonal range with jpgs from camera for a given lighting situation, is that the idea? I guess you would have set of curves for different lighting conditions, high contrast sunshine, overcast, indoors tungsten, fluorescent etc. rather like profiles. Having a quick look at that web site it says:
"2. Although you will always have access to the other preset tones (normal, less, more, auto), the D100 can only hold one custom tone curve at a time. If you want to use a different custom tone curve, you need to connect the D100 to a computer using Nikon Capture Camera Conrol.:
Not sure about you D70 but sounds like you need to take a laptop with you when you go out, more trouble than it's worth? If you haven't got the right curve you still have to correct the shot later and presumably your trying to correct the jpg, so all the info's gone for a burton.
simpo two said:
'Misconception 9: I don't need custom tone curves becaue I like to post-process every image. Response: You are a sado-masochistic, self-flagellant individual with highly developed computer skills.'
Guilty as charged
. Just buy more cards and shoot RAW. You can then, for a given lighting situation make your own custom curve in the RAW software to the first file and batch apply it to all the rest. Process it to jpg if you want to save disk space and dump the RAWs. Your jpgs will never look better, trust me..... I'm a plumber 
My desire to move forward is because the D70 appears to be three cameras in one.
Camera 1 takes perfect pictures straight out of the box. Camera 2, the most common, frequently underexposes by 0.3-0.5EV (conservative Nikon folk using 12% grey instead of 18% I think). The quickest fix is to add EV, but of course that hoofs everything up, so bye-bye highlights in high contrast shots.
Camera 3 specialises in flash underexposure, where in matrix or c/w mode it uses fill flash so continues to underexpose and sometimes, for fun, throws in a green hue as well, most noticeable p on skin tones.
Until now I've tweaked them individually in PS, and whilst I'm somewhere between JPG and RAW at the moment (one being proven, the other complicated and scary) I wanted to try a curve on some JPGs to see the difference.
Some websites, eg Fotogenetics, have the curves clearly shown, so you're right, Bacardi, I could copy them in Capture or PS and apply them later. Didn't think of that! But if they proved good in all situations, then they may as well be applied in-camera.
Unwittingly I seem to have moved into a bigger pond!
Camera 1 takes perfect pictures straight out of the box. Camera 2, the most common, frequently underexposes by 0.3-0.5EV (conservative Nikon folk using 12% grey instead of 18% I think). The quickest fix is to add EV, but of course that hoofs everything up, so bye-bye highlights in high contrast shots.
Camera 3 specialises in flash underexposure, where in matrix or c/w mode it uses fill flash so continues to underexpose and sometimes, for fun, throws in a green hue as well, most noticeable p on skin tones.
Until now I've tweaked them individually in PS, and whilst I'm somewhere between JPG and RAW at the moment (one being proven, the other complicated and scary
) I wanted to try a curve on some JPGs to see the difference. Some websites, eg Fotogenetics, have the curves clearly shown, so you're right, Bacardi, I could copy them in Capture or PS and apply them later. Didn't think of that! But if they proved good in all situations, then they may as well be applied in-camera.
Unwittingly I seem to have moved into a bigger pond!
(standard IIRC disclaimer goes here )
I think the idea of the curves discussed is to make the D70 a bit more point & shoot friendly.
If you load the curve at home via NC4, it's in there to stay and any jpg pic you take will have the curve applied, hopefully eliminating some of the extra workflow that's been introduced by the "dark" settings.
For the RAW addicts, the curves can be applied and removed in NC4.
I had a play with them on some "dark" RAWS and they did not a bad job but I don't think it was enough to warrant having it on the camera full time.
There is another great product I've being using for adjustments that I can't remember the name of right now
I'll update later...
) I think the idea of the curves discussed is to make the D70 a bit more point & shoot friendly.
If you load the curve at home via NC4, it's in there to stay and any jpg pic you take will have the curve applied, hopefully eliminating some of the extra workflow that's been introduced by the "dark" settings.
For the RAW addicts, the curves can be applied and removed in NC4.
I had a play with them on some "dark" RAWS and they did not a bad job but I don't think it was enough to warrant having it on the camera full time.
There is another great product I've being using for adjustments that I can't remember the name of right now
I'll update later...
HankScorpio said:
I think the idea of the curves discussed is to make the D70 a bit more point & shoot friendly.
Yes. In this context, I interpret 'point and shoot' (sometyimes a demeaning term!)as meaning 'getting the exposure right'. I'm not sure of the rationale about a default setup in which 75% of images have to be tweaked in some way to make them 'correct'. Until now I put up with it because +EV wasn't always the answer, but curves seem to be a better answer. Anyway, I just need to do some experimenting... wibble...
V6GTO said:
Do you apply extra colour saturation to every shot you take that you put through PS, Elements etc.? I know I do, so I was wondering if maybe I had a problem with either my camera or my eyes.
Not saturation, but most often brightness and contrast. I use colour balance a little sometimes if it doesn't seem right.
I only calibrated my monitor with Adobe Gamma but the photos I got back from PhotoBox were superb, so I guess it's about right.
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